IVF OTD faint positive chemical pregnancy

[Fox01]

Hi, I have I am looking to see if anyone has tested positive prior to their OTD and then had a fainter positive on OTD?

I am on progesterone and I have been pretty certain for the past 6 days that my tests have not been improving and I believe it to be a chemical pregnancy. The test today was barely visible and its FRER tests that have been positive.

If I tell the clinic that the test has the slightest positive they will have me continue with the progesterone until after 7wks when I get an early scan. I know that scan will show no viable pregnancy. Then I'd have to stop the progesterone.

Or do I tell the clinic I was positive but test is negative so I can stop the progesterone and let me body deal with it naturally?

Has anyone been in this situation? I believe that the progesterone is preventing my body from bleeding and I just want this to end so we can move on as I know it'll be months until FET.

How long did it take ivfers to bleed after their chemicals?

[AM08]

Protocol wise I am on progynova tablets for oestrogen and then from Tuesday I am going to be doing 2 x Lubion progesterone injections a day, the progesterone pessaries, continuing the oestrogen and then blood thinners too - it’s just the exact same protocol as last time so it’s hard to believe there will be a different outcome.

I’m sorry to hear how your feelings, the whole situation is just so very unfair - I did read an article that said women who have a CP following ivf are the least likely to continue with treatment, I think it must be something about seeing a positive after trying and seeing negatives for so long and then the limbo for the line being there but knowing something isn’t working out. We need to have hope - there are studies which show having a CP gives a greater chance of success in the next round so let’s keep fingers crossed.

I totally get what you mean about feeling older and just like life is passing by, it’s so hard feeling ‘stuck’. I have found I’ve kind of isolated myself a bit from people as I’ve felt like ‘I have nothing to say’ because life isn’t moving forward but I know that’s not the right place to be and logically speaking we’re still youngish and we will get there. Have you thought about the fertility counselling? I think I’m going to start the week after next.

I really hope your follow up appointment goes well and they do come up with a plan - it does feel like the advice clinics give is so cookie cutter. Have you decided if you want any additional testing done or changes to the protocol?

[Fox01]

@AM08 sorry I never seen your reply until now - how are things??

I have started my FET protocol. They won't change or test anything until the outcome of this when we have time in between before the next ivf round.

I did fertility counselling but the counsellor could only keep telling us that it 'must be difficult not to know answers'. I felt like she was just saying what we said and there wasn't really anything of note. She was happy that I was open with things and had my friends to rely on and that was it 🤷🏼‍♀️

[AM08]

Hi @Fox01 that’s a shame about the fertility councillor, I have found the same with mine actually, very high level and just repeating that it’s normal to feel anxious.

So I got my BFP last week, last time round when I had the chemical pregnancy my HCG was 27 and this time round it was 1400 on 12dp5dt and 3200, 2 days later - very happy but anxious about heartbeat scan next week. Also since yesterday mid afternoon I have a completely dead leg from the calf so going to call the clinic this morning as think it might be to do with the oestrogen…

How are you feeling about your FET? One big recommendation I have it to do some probiotics between rounds, my doctor said Canesflor and Optibac as your good bacteria might be down from antibiotics in the first round xx

[Fox01]

@AM08 aww big congratulations! That's epic hcg numbers! I can understand your anxiety though, only natural! Keep me posted!!

Weird about the dead leg though. What makes you think it's the oestrogen? What meds are you having to continue?

I have my day 12 scan booked for 18th to check lining and ovaries. I am on progynova 2mg 3x a day and then I'll start progesterone pessaries from scan and then PIO injections from transfer, if I get to that stage.

Good to know re the probiotics. I do actually take a gut one anyway but I have never had antibiotics as part of my cycle and haven't had antibiotics in about 5/6 years either?

[AM08]

@Fox01 ah so I’ve had a pretty horrendous time of things, still pregnant and saw the heart beat at 6 weeks 5 days, and now 7 and half weeks but had an issue with pain in my lower leg due to all of the oestrogen I’m on and a&e prescribed me a drug that’s harmful to pregnancies (despite them saying I was a 0 out of 5 risk for a clot). I’ve been pretty distraught as I won’t know if any issue has been caused until the 18 week anomoly scan as the fetus’s organs won’t be big enough to see if there is any issues until then. I just feel robbed of the joy i should feel about being pregnant after all of this time, it’s so hurtful. If this doesn’t work out (hoping it does) I think I will take a long time off trying for a baby. It’s been too hard.

Ah that’s so different to my clinic, CRGH give you loads of antibiotics in both egg collections and FETs - I was a bit worried they had killed off all my good bacteria so was on a mission to restore but think for you since you haven’t been on antibiotics it should be fine!

Are you looking forward to getting started with your next round? If anything, I am proof that after a CP you’re more fertile!

[Fox01]

@AM08 aw I'm so glad to hear from you, with such great news too! Many congratulations!!

What drug did they give you that they are worried about? I hope everything will be OK, I'm sure the chances are slim and maybe the younger the fetus the better?

I am reading more and more missing out the joy of being pregnant because of infertility or miscarriage etc and it's the saddest thing to read but you'll get there. One of my friends is pregnant after 7 years (fresh transfer didn't take) and she is struggling but enjoys the happy times when she can. That's all you can do.

It's so odd how everyone does them differently! I've never had antibiotics but it is good to know if I have to go private in the future!!

I had my lining scan last wk. They wanted 7mm and I had 10mm so good to go. I get a call tomorrow to say if embryo has thawed OK then good to go Wednesday. I will start lubion injections after transfer and still to take my progynova and progesterone pessaries until neg test/12 weeks. Still not hopeful but distraction will help that.

[AM08]

@Fox01 it was called rivoroxaban, a type of blood thinner but one that hasn’t been tested on humans as the tests on pregnant animals didn’t go well… hopefully as it was a single dose it should be okay!

Your womb lining thickness is fantastic, so good, and fingers crossed for transfer on weds! Are you doing lubion twice a day? I’ve found that particular injection awful but glad I’m coming off in 2.5 weeks now which in the grand scheme of ivf isn’t long! I think for some people it’s totally fine but my tummy’s became really sensitive to it.

Best of the luck for your transfer and keep me posted! Will you test early again in the 2ww? We waited until day 10 this time as the CP wasn’t fun seeing the line fade xx

[Fox01]

@AM08 ill have a read but that does sound worrying. Let's just hope due to being early that things get a chance to sort themselves out. Will you be able to tell so early? I would think you're body would clear it quick enough for it not not have a long lasting effect.

I don't know how often the lubion is. The clinic literally tell me nothing until things happen. I do not get all my meds until the day of scan and transfer! Find out tomorrow if embryo survives. The nurse was very positive and wasn't worry but I still have that worry at the back of my mind.

I will test early but only because I have managed to get a thyroid panel test on day 6 so I should know around then if it has taken and I hope they can treat me if my tsh is measuring high but it may be a fight with the gp and or clinic 🤷🏼‍♀️. Just never know what is happening these days. Otherwise, they want me to test at 15dp5dt which is quite late I think but ultimately I guess a positive isn't always a pregnancy.

[AM08]

@Fox01 i won’t know until the 18 week scan if there is any damage because the fetus’s organs have to develop for them to see if there are any issues but the chances are low with a single dose at 5.5 weeks so fingers very much crossed! Have my 9 week scan next week so hoping that goes well.

How did it go with the embryo? Try not to worry, it’s really hard but the odds are massively in your favour. Will be thinking of you tomorrow.

Ah makes sense re testing early with the tsh stuff, plus it is good to have an indication of what’s happening. I do think it can cause a bit of stress though and so early on things can change.

[Fox01]

@AM08 hey just thought I'd let you know, 5 and 6dp5dt both bright white negatives. I've not had any of the symptoms I've had last time and I have a clear positive by this time last time so I am pretty sure I am out. Now to wait months for another ivf round. The transfer did not go as planned and took almost 1.5 hours and the embryo didn't reexpand after the thaw but the cells were live 🤷🏼‍♀️. So basically it was messed up from the get go. I'm pretty disappointed despite knowing somehow it wouldn't work.

[AM08]

@Fox01 that absolutely sucks, give it a few more days before counting yourself out. That is so awful about the transfer and the embryo not expanding, I guess it’s a stupid question but could they not have defrosted another one? I really hope it works out for you this round but if not then I would deffo recommend a little wee break. I have 2 friends, early/mid 30s who both fell pregnant on their 3rd round so you just have to keep going. You will get there, can you maybe take a couple of days off testing now or you going to do one tomorrow?

[Fox01]

@Fox01 we only had the 1 embryo left so they couldn't. I do think the transfer and thawing didn't go well which I think impacted on this not working but I will never know!

I just want to get going again. There's nothing to do. My life has been the same for 3 years now and I just need this for the change. Just have to wait for the clinic to decide again.

I'll test again on my test day for the clinic or maybe the day before. This tww was nothing because I was so certain it hasn't worked. No symptoms other than feeling the meds. I've also just continued like normal knowing it wouldn't work so it is what it is.

[AM08]

@Fox01 the whole thing sucks, maybe a fresh egg collection over summer will be the right ticket.

In the meantime have you looked at some stuff on here which talks about trying naturally with the sperm meets egg method / supplements like COCQ10 (which I’d recommend you both take) and preseed. I didn’t do any of this stuff when I was trying naturally and I really regret it as maybe it might not have come down to ivf. I know you think it won’t work but try to have some hope.

Try and be kind to yourself over the next few days/weeks - atleast you have a bit of an idea the problem was embryonic so hopefully with a fresh egg collection you’ll get there xx sending you love

[Fox01]

@AM08 thank you. Likely it won't be until October but we will see. I'm going to push for it to be sooner rather than later.

We had been taking ubiquinol for the past 3 years. Stopped after egg collection like you're meant to. I have tried preseed and the other one, made no difference. Tried the cup like things to hold and push the sperm near to cervix. I've done all the dtf timings too. Nothing worked. The only thing I didn't try was vaginal steaming which I didn't think would make any difference...even though nothing else made any difference either 😂

[AM08]

@Fox01 hope your feeling ok, it sounds like you have tried just about everything at this point. I guess next steps will be speaking to your hospital and maybe doing some add ons testing wise? Hopefully once you’ve got a plan in place then you will feel a bit better.

I know we had said if this transfer didn’t work we would PGTA test embryos and look into the EMMA/ERA/ALICE / NK Testing - v expensive but maybe worth throwing everything at it if you can.

[Fox01]

@AM08 they don't do any add ons. Even private they hardly do anything. We would have to go to another clinic for that. I'm not worried about PGA testing as I've done my genetics and did that degree so I have my raw data that I can analyse and I'm not a carrier of anything that would affect pregnancy. I would be interest in immune stuff but again it would be London i think.

[AM08]

@Fox01 ok well best of luck with everything!

[Loz2467]

@AM08 please can I ask how you got on? It sounds like my third FeT I just had was similar to you. I tested at 22.4 hcg at 12dp 5dt then my tests gradually faded 💔 I feel so down. I knew two lines don’t equal a baby and there would have been a long road ahead but I’m so so worried that was our chance and it’s gone. I did a lap and hyst and a 3 month down regulation to control adeno and I’m so upset it worked then didn’t: did you stick to the same protocol going forward?

[AM08]

Hi @Loz2467 - I’m so sorry to hear that happened, a chemical when you’ve done all the right things just feels like a kick in the gut.

I stayed on the same protocol and have managed to get pregnant (26 weeks) so the issue for me was embryonic, the embryo implanted but just wasn’t strong enough.

I would suggest as you’ve had a few ops now and assuming that you’ve had antibiotics, I would suggest using something like Canesflor for a week and also something like Optibac vaginal probiotic to optimise your chances as you’ve probably killed off some of the good bacteria.

What clinic are you with? And what have they said about your round? Did they check progesterone on transfer and test day?

@Fox01 how are you doing?

[Loz2467]

@AM08 congrats that’s amazing news! So pleased for you! I’m worried my partner has got his hopes up for the next transfer because something happened this time but I’m worried it’s other issues :(

I did do a lot for this transfer so I had a second trimester loss in feb 2021 and been unable to conceive since. Finally started IVF end of 2022 and got diagnosed with adenomyosis caused by the loss. Did a fresh transfer jan which failed. Did 2 months down Reg to control the adeno - had transfer in May and that failed. Did a lap and hyst in June. Followed by 2/3 more months of down Reg. Did the transfer. That worked - super strong positive - not even faint - which is making me think was it more my body than the embryo?

I also added to that transfer - pre transfer doxycycline antibiotics along with oral optibac and then caneston vaginal probiotics for a week before starting my estrogen. Also added steroids and blood thinner as a precaution. Added lubion aswell as cyclogest and had my progesterone checked to make sure it was above 100 due to adenomyosis giving progesteone resistance so needs to be high.

i feel so sad and deflated that I threw so much at it and my body was in the best place and I’m blaming myself that it failed! Incase I took something late etc. I wish someone could say it was the embryo and let’s repeat again and hope for the best but it’s just taken me 4 months to prep for that transfer and tough times during down regulation side effects etc. :(

also my clinic don’t communicate too great so I’ve started my withdrawl today and want to have a prostap injection but I’m worried they will decline me and as soon as I have a natural ovulation all the hard work from this year will be undone.

sorry for the long post. Xx

[AM08]

@Loz2467 I’m so sorry to hear about your second trimester loss and all you’ve been through, it just seems so unfair.

I imagine your feeling exhausted by the whole thing, you have literally thrown so much at this transfer especially with such a long down regulation (the down regulation is also the most mentally challenging bit and to do it for so long and for this to be this result must be so confusing).

My protocol was very similar to yours in terms of medication and I totally get that feeling that when the line is strong it feels like it must be another reason but sometimes it’s not, like in my situation where I had a fairly strong line too so try not to rule out it completely.

Have you joined the Emma/ERA/Alice thread? It might not be that you need those tests specifically as you implanted but I joined and some of the ladies on there have had really rocky journeys and have loads of good advice.

I hope your clinic get back to you asap on this, it’s so rubbish being left in limbo when the stakes feel so high. Do you have your consultants mobile number? That was a bit of a game changer for me as it meant I could get in contact for emergencies and get a 5 minute call back.

Sending you loads of hugs, this journey is so difficult.

[Loz2467]

@AM08 thank you so much for replying.

I know I guess that’s true regardless how strong it is but I couldn’t help but think it’s my body and the adenomyosis and not the embryo :( but ultimately we don’t know right now. Do you think my consultant will want to repeat the same protocol seen as I did get implantation? It’s so frustrating she is on annual leave and I feel other Drs are afraid to agree the prostap for me in her absence which is frustrating as if I ovulate naturally in October I’d need more down Reg again and I think my partner is sick of it! And myself! Considering I’ve had so much this year and also a bit worried as my AMH is only 8.4 anyway and I’m 37.

Im on that thread actually. They are very clued up arent they and a nice group of ladies. If this failed I was going to do the ERA. Emma and alice. I even wanted to do a modified natural FET as that works well with adenonyosis. The Facebook group I’m on if any failed a medicated they went straight into a natural modified and it was a success but frustratingly my clinic won’t do that. I was tempted to try naturally this month but then again having to wait more months of down Reg isn’t ideal and Xmas approaching by then.

I don’t have her contact number. My clinic even goes through to a call centre type number now which is frustrating when you just want to speak to a nurse. I’m hoping I hear off them today and I can get a prostap today and then start some estrogen in a few weeks time. Even the dr who last did the transfer was so so good! He “cleaned and washed” everything and really took his time to place it away from the adenonyoma! He was the clinic director. I feel he could have even made the difference but it’s just whoever is transferring on the day! He said I had a great lining and the best image they had all day. Just so upsetting it’s ended. This day last week I was pregnant. :(

[AM08]

@Loz2467 it’s just a hard situation, very curious to hear what your consultant has to say in your review - it really shouldn’t be taking so long to get time in with them, it’s just ridiculous when you think how much money we spend with the clinics.

I don’t know what your clinic will advise in terms of protocol, they might want to keep it the same but if you push and suggest what you want they should listen or give you a compelling reason why not. Did you hear from the nurses today?

I remember on transfer with the chemical that everything seemed perfect, womb thickness, the best person at the clinic did the transfer too and an AA embryo and ultimately it didn’t work; on my next round where I had to have extra oestrogen put in as my womb wasn’t thickening enough and had a less good person doing the transfer and had bleeding on the day of the transfer it worked - sometimes it’s just down to fate.

i do think natural modified sounds like a good approach for you if it’s good for adeno - i was thinking about a natural modified cycle if the one I just did failed and the clinic seemed open to it so fingers crossed yours might come round.

keep me posted and thinking of you!

[Loz2467]

@AM08 I heard from the nurses yesterday and a diff Dr authorised the prostap in my Drs absence so I’ve done that but my withdrawl bleed it so light. :( so I’m worried because with adeno your lining doesn’t shed properly so I’m worrying that the hyterscopy helped because my lining would of been clear. If that makes sense?

It really is frustrating waiting so when I have my appointment in a few weeks I’m going to say if this fails I’m really keen to go straight into a modified natural before any adeno flares. I mean you know need letzrole and progesteone pretty much. Isn’t like a huge protocol or prescription. They just make you do a review which takes weeks and then I’m stuck in the same position as previously. Either flare with an ovulation or do another down Reg but then I’m stuck with modified FET then.

That’s interesting re the transfer - maybe I’m just pinning too many things on it because it ultimately did work/ implant. Just worried about the quality of my embryos now I’m moving onto embryo number 4. Still blame myself for the loss too :(

x