Choosing a hospital: St Thomas vs QE Woolwich

[rainbowparents2022]

Hi fellow pregnant women and amazing mums! I'm a long-time lurker but a first-time poster, feels good to join in the conversation :) Need your advice please.

I'm currently 31 weeks pregnant and registered with St Thomas hospital. We are moving to Greenwich soon, Woolwich to be precise. After we move we will be within a 10 minute walk to Queen Elizabeth Hospital Woolwich ... and a 30 to 40 minute drive to St Thomas

Now I have been with St Thomas for two pregnancies - first one ended in early miscarriage, second one is healthy and low-risk (touchwood). For both of them I received exceptional care at St Thomas and felt very looked after. Antenatal team is wonderful and I feel good about this pregnancy.

I'm due in a couple of months now but I cannot bring myself to decide which hospital I want to deliver in. Obviously QE Woolwich wins on the distance front, 10 minute walk has a LOT of advantages, but I'm wondering if St Thomas wins on the care front? Is this a snobbish thing to think? Also, 30-40 minute drive!!

There are mixed reviews of both hospitals because a lot of experiences reported online have depended on things like midwife on the day (luck of the draw), how well staffed they were, how complicated the birth was, etc. There aren't many negative accounts of actual medical care in either maternity units, but I'm a huge NHS fan so that doesn't surprise me.

Both hospitals' maternity services have been rated as 'good' by the Care Quality Commission. But overall St Thomas seems to have the better rating and reviews.

My husband thinks the closer option is the more sensible one and that NHS provides world class care in London, and he's right. So am I being unreasonable about still wanting St Thomas?

I have chatted to a few friends about this and tried to decide but none of them are pregnant nor have any of them delivered in either of these hospitals so ...

PLEASE HELP ME DECIDE - if any of you has first or second hand experiences in either / both hospitals please could you let me know your thoughts? I am agonising over this and all the previous threads on this subject are quite old.

THANK YOU SO MUCH IN ADVANCE!

• A very grateful FTM

I had all my 3 DC in QE. The birth centre is amazing and I had good experiences with antenatal care, including the EPU and triage.

Until I got pregnant with DC3 a year ago. They’ve clearly been really stretched and are struggling. I had to wait over an hour for routine scans, I was unable to receive an internal scan due to lack of chaperones (the dept was deserted) and didn’t confirm low lying placenta had resolved until 38 weeks due to lack of scanning appts. They closed the birth centre, although I had an amazing water birth in the delivery suite. From 10pm I was cleared to leave, pending sign off from a consultant. I was still on the bastard ward at 4pm the following day, bed blocking and totally fed up. I was also given a box of needles and told to inject myself daily but no one could tell me why. So yeah unless things have improved in the past 5 months (which tbf they might have given Covid) I’d be inclined to look at other options - there’s also Lewisham although Thomas’s has a better reputation.

Congratulations on your pregnancy!

Thank you so much for weighing in @Aozora13 ... I wish there was a way to know if things have gone back to pre-Covid efficiency since your last birth experience at QE Woolwich. I'm sorry it was a difficult experience pre-pregnancy... but so glad the birth part went well, that's important to me too.

I've not heard great things about QE (but have no personal experience!). My local hospital is Lewisham, but I'm in the process of swapping to St. Thomas' after some research and reading reviews. I'm having an ELCS though, so St. Thomas' being farther away shouldn't be too much of an issue for me (hopefully!). I can definitely understand wanting to be closer if you're intending on going into labour naturally.

Congrats and All the best @heya101 !! I haven't yet decided how I want to give birth but I'm inclined to try naturally, still figuring it out...

If you don't mind my asking what have you heard about QE, and were they recent stories?

I had my first with St Ts, the care at the birth was .... non existent but prenatal was fine. I had my second with Kings because I never wanted to see the MW who caused my lack of care again and Kings is closer. I had a fast birth and being in a car in labour was awful, I didn't want to risk needing to go in and having so far to go (planned homebirth).

My vote is closest, if it was 40 mins from St Ts to home I might have had DD in the car

@rainbowparents2022 yeah it’s hard to know if/when things will improve - the staff themselves were all great but just the system was not coping. I think if I were you’d I’d be inclined to stay where I know, even if it is further to travel. A couple of the mums in my Greenwich NCT group went to St Thomas’s (we were split between there, Lewisham and QE) and had good experiences - although that was 5 years ago now.

Thanks so much @olderthanyouthink - that's a vote for my husband and helpful to know. Yeah the midwife reason seems to be such a key part of so many people's rationale for moving away / towards one place or other.

Thanks so much @Aozora13 - you're right it's tough to assess when it's been a bit of time, especially after Covid, I think that's added to the question around quality of care

How quick was your previous labour.

The general view is that each labour gets quicker so if you've been quick once that might be the deciding factor.

FWIW I'd have never made it to a hospital 40 mins away when I had my second. I'm all for picking the closest hospital.

@Twizbe

How quick was your previous labour.

The general view is that each labour gets quicker so if you've been quick once that might be the deciding factor.

FWIW I'd have never made it to a hospital 40 mins away when I had my second. I'm all for picking the closest hospital.

Thanks @Twizbe - this will be the first time I go into labour (my first pregnancy ended in early miscarriage). I'm told first time labour takes a while, but everyone is different etc. Helpful to know your view on picking the closest - that's another vote for my husband!

The way I see it - if it's an emergency then there's nothing to plan for, of course we will go to the nearest one. But if my labour takes its time then should I just go for my hospital of choice?

You see why I'm agonising!

Oh I'm sorry I mis read your first post.

Tbh I'd still go closest. They told me my first 'would take at least 12 hours'. Nope! He was under 6 hours. Second under 3 hours.

I was lucky both born at the weekend and early morning / late evening but rush hour into central London would have been so stressful.

I'd still say go local. It just makes things so much less stressful.

No worries @Twizbe and that's really practical advice - there's a part of me that already knows you're right.

I live in Woolwich (currently 33 weeks) and started my pregnancy at QE but overall had a pretty bad experience.

I felt rushed, my scans were not thorough, the staff has been rude more than once, and I swiftly moved to St Thomas and it’s been SUCH a different experience.

Their consultants, midwives and even just hospital staff/receptionists are so much more polite and don’t look like they have their lives working there.

Also I should mention that one of my local Woolwich friends was also at QE (she’s 32 weeks) and was given the wrong due date, was absolutely denied even a conversation about c section (she had major spinal surgery a few years back and doesn’t believe she could take labour).

She’s now also with St Thomas and her experience has been similar to mine, super positive, even though she’s under a different consultant and has seen different midwives than me.

Oh, and did I mention her and her partner had to watch someone give birth in the waiting room at QE, because she was not attended to in time? Safe to say she was ready to be moved after that.

I did A LOT of research on QE and overall st Thomas simply has more resources, they have one of the top NICUs in the country and generally are a lot more thorough.

Oh my god, someone had to deliver in the WAITING ROOM?? Was this during Covid when they were understaffed or something? That is not particularly reassuring…

It was around autumn or so, since she’s still pregnant, but yeah not fun, I can imagine 😩😂

This is a fairly old thread but I just wanted to add my experience of maternity care at Queen Elizabeth Hospital Woolwich, having given birth there twice, in 2019 and 2020.

I received very poor care which included my concerns as well as those of my husband not being listened to, being denied pain relief and on my second childbirth the triage midwife refused to check my progress for hours, insisting that I was not in labour (all while I was telling her that I felt strong urges to push). She only checked me when I started bleeding, then it was baby’s coming now! No time for me to get dressed to be moved to the labour ward. I was made to walk across the department with almost nothing on. Too late for me to have the water birth that I wanted. Too late for epidural too. Although I had been at the hospital for hours. I feel that my race was a factor in the care that I received and submitted a written complaint to the hospital which has not been answered nearly a year later. Whilst my experience was during COVID, I don’t think that was the reason for the poor care I received. The triage, birth centre and labour ward were not really busy on the night I was there. The staff just didn’t care, and clearly neither does the head of midwifery or the chief executive.

Hi these posts have really helped me I am also trying to pick between the two and I work in guys hospital,

Did any oneone find out why people have had a bad experience at St Thomas's and also did they find it too busy

I have done most my care at qe but I am keen to deliver at St Thomas's it will be my first so don't think it will drop out also there are hotels you can stay in opposite if you wsnt to be close and go up a bit earlier

Hi @rainbowparents2022 , I realise this is quite an old thread but I am having the very same dilemma that you had in terms of deciding to stick to QE in Woolwich or moving St Thomas’s! I am intending on having a C section so am hoping (!) the longer journey time should not be an issue, though that may be final last words… I wondered what you decided in the end?

@RachBird21 Actually this is a good time to ask because my close friend give birth in QE just three weeks ago and I ended up in St Thomas, so I can give you both accounts!

I ended up going to St Thomas in April 2022 when baby was born. All my care had been at St Thomas up until then, and it was where I felt most familiar and comfortable, so finally I decided that's what I would do. My husband and I worked out what routes we would take and how we would manage getting a cab etc, we were as prepared as we could be. But as it happened, at the start of week 39, I got what I assumed was heavy bloody show...but since I'd had some bleeding earlier in my pregnancy I went in to St Thomas to get checked. Typically they tell you to only come in when your contractions are close together, but my first trimester had been high risk due to bleeding, so I wasn't about to take any chances! I thought they'd just check me and send me home and tell me to wait a bit longer... but they said nope we can't locate the bleeding, we need to keep an eye on you - so you are staying here now until baby is born. I had to get induced ultimately and get an emergency C-section in the end but all was well and the care was amazing. Today I have a 17 month old toddler who is running around with her friends at daycare as I type this :)

My friend who gave birth in QE nearly 3 weeks ago had a really good experience too. She ended up getting a C-section as well, and said the care was wonderful. Her baby had to be in the NICU for a few days but they felt very cared for as a family. They managed to get a private room for recovery and staying a few additional days while baby was in NICU. Those rooms are expensive - but when they left, the hospital said they wouldn't charge for the room because baby had to be on antibiotics while he was in NICU. That was nice. In terms of the actual C-section and care that followed as well as the actual care in NICU - she didn't have any complaints and said the doctors and staff were all quite lovely.

Based on the above, sounds like you can't go wrong either way! Hope this helps :) And congratulations!!!

Thank you so much for your reply, that’s really helpful and reassuring to know! Thanks again and congratulations to you - and to your friend - also, I’m pleased it all went well for you.

You are very welcome, so happy to help. And thank you for the kind words. All the best to you and your family :)