Pregnant and starting a new job...

[deliwoman1]

Hi everyone,

I'm starting a new second job the last week of January when I'll be 17 weeks pregnant. The job is salaried, teaching just one course once a week that'll end in May (so before my EDD, which is early July). I'm still fuzzy if they're hiring me fixed term just for this course (after which I'll no longer work for them), or for the same course when/if it runs next year in the same semester. Should find this out soon (contract on its way).

What I'm confused about is my rights with regard to my pregnancy. I haven't told them yet - figured I'd wait until I get the contract, and have my dating scan which is on 14th Dec (at 11 weeks). Mostly, I'm concerned about Covid, and teaching a big bunch of undergrads face-to-face in Jan. Plus, I'll also be working for them into my third trimester and heaven knows what state we'll all be in then. I'm fully vaxxed and will be getting boosted, but you know!

How would you approach it with them? I don't want to bow out because it's a great add to my CV and I could really use the money, but I'm nervous about asking them to put the course online lest they flat out say no. I'm also nervous that a risk assessment won't determine that it's too risky to travel in and teach face-to-face.

I should add, this is an American institution with a satellite campus here in London. I know they have to abide by our employment laws, so not worried there, but I can't even work out how to contact HR and I'm not convinced the staff member who hired me would necessarily know what I'm entitled to right off top. It's awkward to start a new job with demands, but I'm willing to if I must...!

I have a main employer and haven't told them yet either, but it's only just occurred to me that I have to think about this new job too. I'm so tired already!!

Well first off, congratulations! On the job as well as the pregnancy.

From an employment perspective I wouldn't worry: they can't possibly not hire you or tell you to do your work differently from how you're comfortable doing it because you're pregnant, I am pretty sure? Educational institutions have all kinds of parental, disability, and diversity rights in place for that. It would be great if you could find someone at the organisation to talk to about it though, like another instructor or course convenor - as well as someone who knows a bit more about the risk assessment that you mention. (Is it just a feeling you have or are you sure you would be assessed as ok to go in? The UK is back to being recommended to work from home as of this week...)

The other perspective that comes to mind, is that of the students. There were lots of protests last year from students who don't want to be taught online. With that said though, I can't imagine any student would want to voluntarily expose a pregnant teacher to covid, so as long as you're comfortable sharing the situation with them, then, likewise, I do not see how they could possibly object. And if they did object, then I am not sure how that could be given much validity by the organisation...

Also, look at other things that could prevent you from going in, but not prevent you from teaching: breaking a leg; a storm; transport strikes. No one would tie that to your employment rights and ability to do your work (I think?).

The world is as it is right now, and the quality of your teaching also is the way it is (which is presumably excellent ;) )... I understand this must be really worrying, I would worry too! But I think if you consider everything rationally then it should really all work out ok :)

Thanks @AnonymousXXIX! I really appreciate your reply.

I'm not worried so much about them withdrawing the offer (too late, legally), more that I was hired to teach face-to-face so they would have to make an accommodation for me that they're unlikely to make without very good reason. Students have been promised a face-to-face course and they pay a fortune to study abroad there a semester, so it's not something the university will change lightly.

They're legally required to do a risk assessment because of my pregnancy, but it may be that they deem the risk to be low enough or non-existent if I'm vaxxed and the students are too. Obviously with omicron we know there's more uncertainty than that. Even leaving the new variant aside, I can still catch Covid, and there's no ironclad guarantee it won't affect me badly in my third trimester. I've managed to avoid getting Covid thus far and had the Pfizer jab, which apparently isn't as resilient against omicron, so I imagine I'm not as protected as I could be (until my booster).

I think I'm just going to have to disclose my pregnancy, make it clear that while I'm excited to begin teaching for them, I'm not comfortable teaching face-to-face while pregnant with so much uncertainty about, and that I would prefer to teach online. I'll ask for the risk assessment and get hectic if they turn me down flat.

Purely from the perspective of my students DD's, they would be seriously annoyed if lectures weren't face to face if allowed at that point purely because you are pregnant. Their education has been seriously messed up for which there's been no reduction in fees, students including mine have been shafted basically. This might not be your doing but asking for them to compromise their education by putting it online and not allowing them to speak to you face to face isn't fair. Many struggle with online

@gogohm, I should've said, in my other job I run an academic programme, so I'm fully aware of the issues and sympathise with the students who've had a very hard time (perhaps not as hard as the adjuncts who teach them for peanuts, but that's a rant for another time). Pregnancy is a protected characteristic and it's against the law for my employer to put me or my baby at any risk they can reasonably mitigate, whether its a less than ideal situation for the students or not. Covid isn't my fault any more than it is theirs.

Unless of course you think I should quit my job because I'm pregnant...

Also, while 'many students struggle with online,' have you seen a woman in hospital battling covid in her third trimester? Both are shit situations, but as struggles go, the two really don't compare.

I'm with @gogohm. With all due respect whilst they legally can't take the job offer away you are going to cause major issues as you've accepted a job teaching in person, obviously I haven't seen the advert but from what I can gather I presume it was made very clear it wouldn't be teaching online. Those students will have paid their fees for face to face teaching, not online and by the sounds of it the shit is going to hit the fan if they have to be taught virtually.
Covid isn't your fault and neither is it the students. By the sounds of it though you have applied for a job you can't do - if those students have to have a reduction in fees I can see it being cheaper for the institution to hire another person to do the actual teaching and just paying to put you on garden leave.
You've already said you'll be 17 weeks when you start at the end of January, Covid isn't an increased risk for pregnant women until third trimester, that's mid April for you, I don't really get why you're refusing to teach face to face until at least then

@mummyh2016 I applied a year and a half ago. I was interviewed and hired straight away four months ago (i.e. before I was pregnant). So I didn't apply for a job I couldn't or can't do. And, as I'll be teaching the same course continuously for four months, I will be in my third trimester before it ends. I know from experience that it's very disruptive to switch formats half-way through a course. I didn't say I wouldn't teach face-to-face until then, just that I was uncomfortable with it and would prefer online, for obvious reasons. They can put me on gardening leave if that works better for them. I'd be sad about it though because I really do want to do the work.

I don’t think the risk assessment will flag that’s it’s too risky for you.

I was teaching face to face in a secondary school up to 37 weeks pregnant when I went on maternity. Most of my students we unvaccinated. So I don’t think you’re guaranteed they’ll change how it is taught.

Also the format wasn't fixed in the ad. The search was frozen mid-way during lockdown, hence the big gap between application and interview, so I presume they knew they would need the flexibility if they needed to flip (if the situation with covid changed again). And they were keen to understand more about my experience with online teaching in the interview. They might actually decide to adjust things next semester anyway, I don't know yet.

@Exmoorkatie86

I don’t think the risk assessment will flag that’s it’s too risky for you.

I was teaching face to face in a secondary school up to 37 weeks pregnant when I went on maternity. Most of my students we unvaccinated. So I don’t think you’re guaranteed they’ll change how it is taught.

I was coming on to say similar. We've had 2 staff members who have taught face to face in their 3rd trimester. There's no guarantee they'll change the teaching format.

You haven't just said you would prefer to teach online though, you've said if they turn you down flat you will go 'hectic'. I read this as you will make it v v v hard for them if they refuse to give into your demands.
I think if you're on the verge of third trimester and cases/deaths are high then yes discuss the possibility of teaching virtually. To want to do it 11 weeks before then is a bit of a pisstake imo though. Yes it might cause some upheaval switching half way through the course (although depending on when in May the course finishes it would be between 2-6 weeks of third trimester working so would be less than half way) but it is likely still better for those students to have some face to face teaching than have it all virtual.
If you can teach virtual I presume you can keep 2m away anyway.

@Exmoorkatie86 Yeah, I don't think so either. Wow, 37 weeks in a secondary school? Did they do a risk assessment?

My main job has just allowed a pregnant colleague to wfh until her mat leave kicks in. She's 29 weeks, I think, but working up until the end. My counterpart has gotten someone to cover her teaching but she's still doing administrative work and curriculum planning, doing tutorials online, and helping with grading I think. No problems really. So that might be the same for me at some point.

The point is if the risk assessmwnt is that you are safe enough to work then you have no rrason to refuse to. They don't need to do anything possible to mitigate all risk, they need to do the reasonable to mitigate too much risk. The same goes for all pregnancies in all jobs regarding all risks (and other health conditions/risk factors).

So yes, you are super unreasonable by deciding in advance that you won't tolerate any risk, it's all on them, and you will be vvv difficult if you don't get your way, before you even know what the medical situation is with the pandemic.

It's good (very good!) there are many legal protections for pregnant women, but you are taking the piss.

I have no idea why some people are getting so shirty about you stating a preference to rather work online, that’s totally fine and your call. I’d feel the same if I were you, ultimately your health and baby’s health comes first and if you can do the work as well from home and it doesn’t cause any major issues for students then why not.

I'm a teacher in a primary school. Currently 3rd trimester and still having to face to face teach. My risk assessment has told me to keep windows open and try to distance myself (from 5 year olds), but they cannot enforce any other protective measures as it isn't in the government guidelines. Basically, got to get on with it and hope to God I don't catch it before I start MAT leave.

@HopefulRose

I have no idea why some people are getting so shirty about you stating a preference to rather work online, that’s totally fine and your call. I’d feel the same if I were you, ultimately your health and baby’s health comes first and if you can do the work as well from home and it doesn’t cause any major issues for students then why not.

The OP isn't just stating a preference though, she had said she is going to demand it and I read it that she will make it difficult if she doesn't get her own way.

@HopefulRose I know! It is my preference, yes. I didn't say anywhere that I wouldn't do face-to-face, only that I was really uncomfortable. I will get bloody hectic if they won't do a risk assessment that takes covid into account, though, because that would be just rubbish. I've heard of it happening, sadly.

I'm commuting into central London, and it's mad at the moment on the tube/bus, so that continues to make me a bit nervous. I've had several losses this year, both pregnancy losses and people I know who've died of covid, so it doesn't help with the anxiety in general. I'm likely more cautious than others for that reason.

If you were really that uncomfortable one might wonder why you decided to get pregnant within a month of getting the job offer? Nothing your employer can do of course but I'd be annoyed if I was a student and/or your employer and it does set women in the workplace back somewhat as it just plays to the stereotype that women of child bearing age are a PITA to employ

@thatstheloveiwantiwantlove that hurts because I've been trying for a baby for years, with a lot of loss and sadness. Was I also supposed to put my career on hold while trying for something that I didn't know would ever happen? I'm very glad I've finally been successful.

@mummyh2016 No. I wrote that I would demand a risk assessment if I wasn't given one. That's the only thing I could demand because it's the only thing I have a right to!

Hmmm when you mention demands it doesn't say you are referring to a risk assessment. It reads as you will be demanding for online working. Plus they legally have to do a risk assessment if you're pregnant so it's a strange thing you feel you will have to demand

@Mamaux That sounds very tough. I will keep my fingers crossed for you! I think they're likely to suggest something similar for me, but of course it will be much easier for 18-year olds to keep their distance! I hope we have a decent sized classroom at least.

I also just thought of getting an Uber in after 28 weeks, because it's only once a week, so I could suck up the cost to avoid the rush hour tube. I'll be holding office hours online because they asked us to.

@mummyh2016 That wasn't what I meant. And, like I've said, I know pregnant colleagues who haven't had risk assessments, because their universities haven't got their acts together to sort them out. They're often not the most organised places. My university is a global institution headquartered in another country. So HR is centralised abroad. It makes anything related to HR a bit more convoluted - it's taken four months to get my contract through - and the person who hired me is an academic herself, not someone I'd expect to know what pregnant women are automatically entitled to. That's what I meant by having to 'demand it' from her.

So, you've accepted a job teaching students. But you worry about the close contact in teaching said students...?
What on earth are you expecting? That they'll completely change the job spec and make it a different job?
If you don't feel safe because of your pregnancy then please let them know that you won't be accepting the job- it's only fair.

Anyway, I've got the message. Thanks everyone for your replies.

I’d second that you may well not be allowed to work from home in the third trimester - you might, but I’m 38 weeks and still commuting, and many of the ladies on my NCT course are the same, including a secondary school teacher and a lecturer.

Your employer could be better, of course, but so far our risk assessments have been pretty similar and almost everyone is still working in the office, except the two people who took maternity leave earlier. The government got rid of the advice to allow pregnant people to work from home after 28 weeks some time ago.

An Uber once a week seems a reasonable compromise, and there is time for Omnicron to settle etc before you’re in your third trimester. And to be honest, going into antenatal appointments in the hospital feels far riskier than work, even with busy tubes, at the moment!

Congratulations to you, I hope you can find a compromise that works for everyone