Having first baby, partner abroad

[Birthx1]

My daughter is giving birth in the UK and her partner has been refused a visitors visa to be with her. Her due date is only a couple of weeks away and she is becoming increasingly depressed and dreading the birth without her partner. She is seeing the arrival of her much wanted first child as being a heartbreaking and very negative experience. She does not know anyone who has been through this experience. Is there anyone out there who could offer first hand support?????

Unfortunately I think it's unlikely your daughters partner would be given a visitors visa in this situation even if they applied again. (What was the reason given for the refusal?)
Her partner has an extremely strong tie to the UK now that they have a partner & child here. The immigration service will view it as likely that they would overstay their visitor visa.
Does your daughter ordinarily live abroad with her partner?
Or has she looked into the long term visas available for her partner to come to the UK?
For support and advice specifically with regards to being separated from your partner due to visa issues I'd recommend the Facebook group 'I love my foreign spouse' as well as the following forums:
www.immigrationboards.com
www.expatforum.com
britishexpats.com/forum/

It's certainly very upsetting that her partner won't be with her for the birth of her child but unfortunately it's not an uncommon situation for people in relationships with someone subject to immigration control. Visas to the UK generally require a lot of effort and are easily rejected.

I have some friends who have been in similar situations and It's a horrible thing to go through. I remember one thing that helped a bit was to have their partner on video-call during the delivery - it ate up lots of data but helped both parents feel at least a bit connected at that time, which was really important. Maybe your daughter could try that? Are you going to be her birth partner? If so, remind her that you'll be there for her and for their baby, think about how the two of you can spend time together for support, and reassure her that you'll advocate for her however she needs you to.

In the longer term, she and her partner might want to explore options for residency or relocation, so a good lawyer will be key. Your daughter and her partner might need reminded to have hope - there are ways they can be together as a family again, even if they're being kept apart just now.

Thank you for your response jolota,
My daughter spends about 4 months a year working in the UK and the remainder of the year working for charities abroad.
The visa was refused on the partner’s lack of finances and they did not seem to believe that they both had work commitments which would require they return to his home country. My husband and I were his sponsors along with my daughter.
Unfortunately my daughter has no one to talk to about giving birth without a partner then travelling over 24 hours when the baby is only days old. She feels very alone in this situation.
They will be trying again for a visa, to allow him to bring the child to the UK while she attends to her work commitments next May.

Thank you for your response Scirocco,
Unfortunately, due to covid, patients are not permitted to have phones or iPads or other devices for video calls in the hospital.
Just now she is so negative about the birth experience she appears to be going alone. I would do anything to support her but as she is not in a good place emotionally I think she would reject that suggestion at the moment.
She only returns to the UK to finance her time abroad and I doubt that her partner would ever qualify for residency in the UK, he will never have the level of finances the UK wants from applicants.
We did consult with a specialist immigration lawyer but he made it clear that appealing refused applications is a long and costly process which can take years.
Sorry, everything is very negative but I do appreciate your suggestions. My daughter cannot see any positives about her situation at the moment.
I have said how once the baby is here she will feel so much love for them and she can spend every day after getting out of hospital (which will probably be less than 24 hours) video calling her partner. Trying so hard to be positive for her without trivialising her pain.
Thank you again for responding.

It is a really difficult situation & I don't agree with UKVI (on principle generally!) but I can see why they would have refused his visitors visa and why they probably will continue to.
What documents did you provide to show you were sponsoring his visa? The only 'sponsoring' that matters is financial, which would usually require you to show you have the funds to sponsor his stay How long has he requested? this will also have a bearing.
What proof of continuing work commitments abroad did your daughter & her partner provide?
I agree with the advice that appealing refused visas is lengthy and costly, and you don't have the time available so reapplying would be your only option, but you need to be able to address every refusal point and give more evidence to prove he will be supported financially during his stay and that he intends to leave before his visa expires; the most difficult aspect in this situation unless your daughter is also leaving at the same time as him to return abroad?

The work situation you describe is one I've seen on the forums mentioned multiple times and is very difficult to navigate as it sounds like your daughters base is still the UK, but she also works abroad regularly, this would probably make it very difficult for her partner to meet the requirements for a visa to live in the UK, but without this and with visitor visa refusals on his record, I think he will have difficulty travelling to the UK with his daughter in the future as he'll have to keep applying for visitor visas that will want to see finances and a reason to return abroad. What work does your daughters partner do?
It is not necessarily his finances that matter for a residence visa, initially it is the income that the UK citizen makes that is relevant for a visa to live in the UK. How she gets paid will be relevant to whether or not this visa is obtainable.
This kind of visa also requires the holder to be present in the UK for the majority of the year though which sounds like it might not be applicable to their current lifestyle.
I would really recommend that she goes on the forums and groups I mentioned, she will find people in similar situations who can guide her through the visitor visa application process and also who can give great advice about her options for the future.
Most people have been through this process and are therefore very experienced and understanding. The advice is free and often much more accurate and understandable than what I've seen from 'immigration lawyers'.
She should also consider their long term plans now that they have a child, if they intend for the child to have a base in a specific country, then visas will need to be obtained and sometimes that means giving up a preferred lifestyle and settling in one place.
My husband and I wanted to be able to continue travelling & living abroad flexibly but eventually realised that if we wanted our home base to be the UK in the future then we needed to accept that we would have to commit to living in the UK at least until he got citizenship (5+ years).
Unfortunately, falling in love with someone subject to immigration control makes certain aspects of our lives more difficult and that's the price we pay!

@MultiStorey
I can assure you it is extremely distressing, but unfortunately it is the reality of my life & there's no point sugar coating it; it sucks & is very challenging and expensive.
Believing that the government shouldn't behave in a certain way doesn't change anything unfortunately and the current government is particularly anti immigration so things have only gotten more difficult and are unlikely to improve any time soon.
We are close to the end of our immigration journey, after 5 years and over £10k, it is not easy and it certainly doesn't feel fair at times but if jumping through these hoops is what means I can live my life with my husband then it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make, regardless of whether I believe we should have had to go through this at all.

Agreed @MultiStorey that it is ghastly but also it is something to bear in mind because it can be so so frustrating.

I would want the rationale from the hospital around this
Unfortunately, due to covid, patients are not permitted to have phones or iPads or other devices for video calls in the hospital. as frankly it sounds like another bollocks excuse of something that can't be done because of covid. Seriously, the woman's partner is in another country, but equally there may be women whose partner is at home with covid, it makes sense to allow a video call.

OP your daughter is fortunate to have you and you sound like you will be a great advocate for her in labour.

Sorry I am confused. you're daughter is currently in the UK or elsewhere? Never heard of a hospital banning video calls? I've been in and out of 5 different maternity wards over the last few months and none have banned phones. I'd consider changing hospitals if this is their policy cos it's definitely not a national one. it's total bollocks. how does video calls impact covid? that's total nonsense.

Does your daughter have someone else nearby that she trusts that can be there for her. I am so sorry she is going through this at such a hard time. Wish her an easy labour etc

That's really odd that the hospital are banning video calls and tech devices. Where I work we've relied on them heavily during the pandemic and that's in an NHS hospital setting, so I really don't understand why they would ban them. Maybe raise it with PALS, as that doesn't seem fair or clinically necessary?

Hi Unicornflakegirl, I’ve just checked and she will be allowed to video call 😁 it was when she went for the scan which can tell you the sex of the baby she was told no mobiles etc so her partner wasn’t able to see the scan live.
That is a huge relief, the next best thing to him actually being there! Thanks for your reply x

It was the scans where she wasn’t allowed to use her mobile because of the technical equipment - I’ve checked directly with the hospital she will be having her baby in and there is no problem there during and after labour so that is a relief!
I am hoping she will agree to me being her support during labour, at the very least I could hold the phone!! 😉
Thanks for your reply and good wishes for the birth x

All cleared up now scirocco! She wasn’t allowed to film when she went for scans at a different hospital to the one where she will give birth. I’ve checked with that hospital and it’s all good for video calling😁 thanks for being supportive x

That's good news. I was about to suggest exploring a home birth so she could use video but no need!

Oh my goodness jolota you have had such a hard journey for something that should be straightforward, provide the evidence - receive the permission. You have shown remarkable perseverance and I hope you are able to be a happy family unit very soon x

Unfortunately my daughter has no one to talk to about giving birth without a partner then travelling over 24 hours when the baby is only days old.

Uh, not to be unsupportive, but that latter part sounds unlikely to be a good idea. Odds are that only days after a first birth she will be struggling to walk, much less travel for 24hrs with a newborn.

Having your baby alone while a partner is overseas is a common situation for the spouse of someone in the armed forces, though, so she could try seeking some emotional support from women in that situation.

MultiStorey, unfortunately the current government are very much all about who will bring financial benefit to the country, whose face/nation fits their narrow minded outlook and, quite frankly racism, but that’s another issue so I’ll get off my soapbox!!😉 x

Bells3032, my daughter is in the UK. I have now established that the ‘no mobiles etc’ was only for the scans because of the technical equipment so we’re good to go with the video calls!!! Thank you for your reply and good wishes for the birth x

Jolota you have been fantastic with your information, suggestions and advice! I will reread and digest everything and follow up with the forums you have suggested.
For his visa application we gave all our financial details as sponsors to prove we had more than enough funding to support him for the time he would be here.
They both provided letters and and confirmation of having these jobs to return to after the birth as well as contact numbers and email addresses from their employers, both here and abroad in the case of my daughter. He was only applying for the short visitors visa to be at the birth and after until everything was okay for them all to return to their main home.
The refusal reasons were all concerned with his financial situation. Where he is from most people earn very little, do not pay tax and rarely have bank accounts unless they have been able to come to the UK or any other Western country to complete a degree and experience in that field. They then return to their home country and are able to qualify for the well paid jobs. My daughter’s partner had to stop his studies there to help support his grandmother and sisters so he is only able to get short term work often with charities.
To be honest I think becoming a parent will focus my daughter on her life plans and putting someone else as her priority!
Thank you so much again! X

Hi stalkersaga, I don’t think you are being unsupportive - I agree completely! The place she is in at the moment is focused on getting back to her partner as soon as possible so he doesn’t miss out on the first days of his daughter’s life ☹️
I also thought about the many forces wives whose partners cannot be with them at the birth but didn’t know how to find them. Thanks to jolota’s responses I now have a couple of forums my daughter can try 🙂 thanks for your response x

Hahaha! Thanks!

@Birthx1
It sounds like you did include a lot of relevant documentation for the visitor visa application.
On the forums they'll ask you to scan the refusal letter & block out personal details & hopefully someone can help with specific advice about overcoming their refusal reasons in your reapplication.
My husbands first visit visa was also refused but we managed to be successful with a better understanding of the ways in which they are vague with requirements to deliberately give themselves an excuse to refuse you!
As a side note, I agree that the immigration system has a lot of issues particularly in how western centric it is. As you've mentioned, many countries just don't have the level of documentation that they expect you to be able to provide, payslips & tax records for example are not always common but they seem reluctant to accept this reality & allow a more flexible approach; as you've said they don't view it as in their interest to accommodate people from certain countries.
It's reassuring to hear that your daughter will be able to video call her partner during the birth & hopefully you can be there for her too. You sound like you're a great support.
The advice about military wives is good & it's also worth considering that quite a few people had to labour alone due to covid so even if he was in the country it might not have worked out in their favour. Not that it helps or makes anything feel better knowing other people have had to endure it too but maybe have a search for people who've been through that experience recently & see if there's anything useful that might benefit your daughter to know.
Also, not sure if your daughter is in the right frame of mind currently to be made aware of this as she is understandably struggling but it's worth noting that current processing times for children's first passport is about 6 weeks, so it's unlikely she'll be able to travel with the baby as soon as she might have hoped. Though there is a one week option if she's able to attend in person, but as previously mentioned it might depend on her recovery from the birth.
Yes I imagine the uncertainty around living arrangements for your daughter and her partner will become more critical once they have a child, and difficult decisions will need to be made but hopefully they can find a solution that works for them as a family! My husband & I looked at various options for where to live together but with different passports it's surprising how few countries were actually a possibility, especially if you want more security than being reliant on a work contract.
Good luck to your daughter with the birth & I hope things go well for them as a family going forwards xx

Hi, your daughter is welcome to message me if she likes, I gave birth to my daughter in January with my mum supporting me as my partner could not make it from overseas. He watched the birth over video call.

I returned to be with him when our daughter was 20 weeks old. It’s good to keep an open mind about the return date. In the end we decided it was better for our daughter to get her 8, 12 and 16 week vaccinations here first.

Hi Smym 10
Thank you for responding and offering to chat to my daughter over messenger.
I will check that she is okay with this.
Does she need to register her own account on Mumsnet to private message you?
This is my first post on Mumsnet so I’m not sure what can be done!