Apprehensive about this NCT situation...

[JewelleryBox]

I’m in a same sex relationship and my DW is carrying our baby. I’d like to join a group like NCT or Baby and Bump type group but have a few anxieties:

Is it very gendered? ie do the ‘dads’ have their own sessions? If so I assume these would be about being a supportive birth partner so I’d be ok to go to these?

When the group WhatsApp is set up is there one for ‘mums’ and one for ‘dads’? And if so where do I go!

Much later on when there are meet ups would you have found it odd that I’m there instead of my DW? (I’ll be taking the vast majority of the maternity/shared parental leave and my DW said she’s interested in the groups for the classes rather than the social aspect whereas I also like the idea of the social support.)

hi, my experience was that things were extremely gendered. but i guess that also depends where you live!
i’m nonbinary, and went through pregnancy but couldn’t deal with how gendered things were. feel free to pm.

Don’t worry.

The WhatsApp groups are set up informally and if the people are normal they will just ask you which one (or both!) you want to be in.

The formal sessions as you say will be fine.

Don’t overthink it.

My experience was that it is quite gendered but that's probably because we had no same sex couples in our group.

I can't speak for everyone, but if you and your DW were in our group, you would be welcome with open arms and we'd be incredibly inclusive.

Good luck OP

I’d say don’t overthink it. Yes, everything revolves around mum/dad, but that is the way most babies are made. Just own the fact that you are both mums. Sometimes my wife and I have both been in WhatsApp groups, but frankly now in primary school we both try to get out of being the one in the class groups 😂 last year it was her, this year me. When we meet new parents individually they always assume whichever one they met first was the birth mum and there’s a dad until they meet the other later on or it comes up naturally in conversation.

Our NCT teacher was great. They do split into "mums" and "dads" discussion sessions within the classes, but the teacher spoke to us ahead of the course and asked how we wanted to deal with it. We decided that I would stay with the "mums" to discuss labour, breastfeeding etc, and DW would go with the newly renamed "partners" group, as the discussions were relevant for that.

The people in the group were lovely, we are all in the same WhatsApp group and as the kids are now older, everyone is back at work etc, we mostly meet up as whole families, but if there ever are "mums" or "dads" events, DW gets invited to both!

Meetups on Mat Leave were very much about whoever is available is welcome to come along, and that was open to both parents.

If you're apprehensive, could you contact them ahead of time and see if they can reassure you?

Thanks so much everyone.

It’s easy to say don’t overthink it but I that’s who I am as a person. 😂

Although, I have a hundred other concerns too like what if someone in the group is homophobic or if people ask personal questions like how did you conceive etc. And I’m managing to put those (mostly) aside, so I take your point.

I can't comment on any antenatal classes as I'm not that far yet.

But at meetups with babies I personally don't think I would care if it was birth mum, other mum or dad with the baby. All will have the baby experience to share, even if they didn't physically give birth.

I had read an old thread where the dads at a Baby and Bump group were sent off the the bar for half the session to bond. I just imagined my wife staying with the women and all the men heading off to have a beer and me being rooted to the spot. My idea of an absolute nightmare.

I think you’re right @TheCheeseBadge and I’ll get in touch first.

No experience as I’m not at the NCT stage yet. But I would assume that even if a class leader usually used the terms “mums” and “dads”, they would use more inclusive terms such as “mums” and “partners” to differentiate between those giving birth and those needed to support their partner giving birth.

As far as the people you’ll make friends with, nobody that matters would mind whether your DW stayed within the specific “birthing” group, or decided the most relevant part for her would be the “support partner” group.

As far as meeting up, all the NCT groups I’ve known or heard about, have always been whichever parent has the baby. So many couples share parental leave, or have SAHDs I don’t think anyone would bat an eyelid if your DW had given birth, and you were the one on parental leave attending the meet-ups with your baby.

It’s easier said than done, but I’m sure you have nothing to be worried about. If it makes you feel better, you could always contact the group leader before you sign up, to ask any questions about how things would be handled. I’m sure they will reassure you.

My DW will be in this position soon, we were already disappointed at our Booking appointment to be asked questions about the father and to be told about a Father's antenatal group.
Like others have said, you just have to own it and ask the question, so where is your female non-birth parent antenatal classes? And if you don't have any, please adjust the name of the group accordingly.

As an aside, do you know of a group for non-birth and non-biological Mums? I think my DW would find this reassuring.

I completely understand you being apprehensive about homophobia and intrusive questions.

Not entirely on-topic but hopefully something you find useful:

I do live in a diverse area, but in most pregnancy related groups I've been to, we've been the only two mum family. Our eldest is now 4 and we have another one on the way, and I can honestly say we've not experienced any homophobia at all. People have asked questions, sometimes using words that we would not necessarily use to describe our situations ourselves, but there has never been any malicious intent (e.g. "do you mind me asking how you conceived" rather than "how the hell did that happen", or "do you know the father" rather than "donor" etc) and personally I've always been happy to take it the way it's intended and discuss it with people.

I found pregnancy to be a really important trial run, to practice speaking to others in the way we wanted our kids to hear about their conception, the words we were going to use, being confident enough to explain that your child had two mums.

When we moved onto baby groups, we found loads of donor conceived kids and LGBT families, or kids that lived with their gran etc, so it became much more comfortable again to discuss our family's history.

The only situation where we have ever had awkward conversations is actually in medical settings, we've been asked who is the "real" mum etc (and 4 years in, I'm so much more comfortable correcting them - we're both the real mum but if you're asking because you want to know the medical history, I'm the bio mum). In social settings everyone has always taken us exactly as we say we are, a two mum family who are both very much equal parents.

what if someone in the group is homophobic or if people ask personal questions like how did you conceive etc

Then you don’t want to be friends with them anyway. A lot of people worry about overly personal questions, and you don’t need to feel it’s because of your sexuality. People who were cheeky enough to ask how you conceived, could also be cheeky enough to ask a couple with twins if they were natural or IVF, or ask an older mum if she’d taken a long time to conceive, or ask a young mum if the baby was planned etc etc.
Some people have no boundaries, but you’ll find them in all walks of life, not all filtered into an NCT class!

We had a same sex couple in our group and a single mum with her mum. We had tasks for birth partners and those giving birth, that was it ☺️

On the topic of groups, there is a Facebook page called LGBT Parents UK. It's an active group, with great advice, and people often arrange local meetups.

Gendered yes but we had a stay at home dad in our group so there was never a ‘mums’ or ‘dads’ whatsapp for instance. Meant we couldn’t discuss our fannies after birth over messages but hey ho 😂 there are also some much more modern NCT style courses coming up in places so maybe worth looking at those?

We had a female same sex couple in ours. The woman who was giving birth did the ‘mum’ parts and the her partner the other bits meant for the birth partner. That was it really. I don’t know where you live Op but this was in west London and it didn’t occur to any of us to go poking around in the relationship set ups of the other couples, no matter what sex they were. They were just in the group. However the couple on question we’re quite forthcoming with their donor info etc, but no one explicitly asked it of them.

My group had a solo parent and her sister and both joined the female WhatsApp and interchanged who came to meet ups with the baby and often both came and the sister did the classes with the dads as a birthing partner. It will be great defo don't over think it.

I had a fabulous NCT group where the mums and kids are now lifelong friends (our big ones are 10), but the Dads didn’t really chime. I know another one locally where they did, and there have been lots of days out and camping trips etc.

I think the reason that it becomes gendered is that your friendships are really cemented in those early days of maternity leave where you’re suffering through the same things and, until relatively recently, that tended to be the mother who had given birth. With the advent of shared parental leave, and more 50/50 input from both parents in the early stages that may well change, but I suspect that in the majority of cases, the mum who gave birth will still be the primary person involved in the group.

This is really reassuring and helpful, thank you.

I can only speak from my experience and our NCT group was pretty gendered - i.e. during the sessions there were mum groups and dad groups and then we had mum and dad WhatsApp groups. However, it was also the case that in our group we were split along gender lines into those giving birth and those who were birth partners. I’m sure if you speak to the NCT in advance they can accommodate you though. It always depends on the group how well people gel - my group was lovely and I’m quite sure we would have figured out a way to include you in whatever way worked best for you.

Congratulations on your baby!

@Zibidee I haven’t been on it yet so I don’t know if it’s worth recommending but there’s also a Facebook group called ‘LGBT mummies tribe non-bio mama & parent support group’ that someone suggested to me.

Just one experience here…. We had a lesbian couple and we did split into mums and supporting partners groups at times. But the WhatsApp group we included both girls in (non bio mum was incredibly prim and feminine as well and just wouldn’t have been a good fit in a group of men) and both mums or one or the other would come to any meet-ups. Non bio mum actually had a 1 year old biologically anyway so it all worked really well. She was definitely one of the girls rather than anything to do with the dads.

FF to now and sadly they split up, we no longer see birth mum at all and non birth mum is one of our closest friends.

A long time since I did NCT - but when I did, there wasn't any segregation of mums/dads.

If there is now, could you not just both go to the 'mums' sessions? You're not going to be the baby's dad, unless I'm being really dense (and if so, I apologise). The children I've known whose parents are in same-sex relationships have "two mums" or "two dads". As a woman, I would feel more comfortable with other women, regardless of my sexual orientation.

As for birth partner: you don't need to be told how to do this. It will become obvious as labour develops. What you need to do is respond to your partner, and she won't know what she needs until she's actually in labour.

There were mum's and dad's sessions in our group, but I have no doubt that if there had been a same sex couple it would have been a mum's and partner's group and no one would have batted an eye! We do have separate mum's and dad's Whatsapp groups, but again that was born out of discussing pregnancy related insomnia/SPD/mucus plugs and I suspect you would just have been asked which group you wanted to be in (or both or neither!). Regarding meet ups - generally I organize them as my husband couldn't organised a piss up in a brewery so I go, but he's also taken our son, and again not an issue.

@JewelleryBox

I had read an old thread where the dads at a Baby and Bump group were sent off the the bar for half the session to bond. I just imagined my wife staying with the women and all the men heading off to have a beer and me being rooted to the spot. My idea of an absolute nightmare.

I think you’re right @TheCheeseBadge and I’ll get in touch first.

We did "bump and baby" and yes this happened but the context was that it was just 20 mins at the end of the session - dads were sent to the pub so that the mums could talk more openly about any gory details (like the state of your vag after delivery!). The mums then met the dads after and we all stayed in the pub for another round to get to know each other.

So if I were you I'd stay with your wife for that, since you won't likely be grossed out by the vagina talk & it's only 20 mins anyway.