Third trimester - how careful are you?

[housewifeathome]

Those of you in your third trimester: how careful are you and what precautions are you taking? I keep reading that over 28 weeks we are classified as "vulnerable" to Covid regardless of vaccination status.

I'm not vaccinated, however I have been exposed to Covid via DC2 in second trimester and didn't test positive or have any symptoms.

We have a number of school events coming up. I have always gone to every single event in the past. Would you attend school events / kids' parties?

@SW1amp

You are using big words to deliberately mislead.

In plain English: you can't really STATISTICALLY quantify the risk of me catching, let alone suffering, let alone dying from Covid whilst pregnant. No one can tell me that and actually the NHS advises that Covid is usually mild and the cure is staying at home to recover. Most of my family have had Covid, including my DC.

You also cannot quantify the risk of injecting ME carrying a baby with a vaccine that has been in production for less than 12 months, that was issued for "emergency use only" until 2023. There are always risks of side effects and different side effects are becoming apparent and being linked to the vaccine every day. I do know many people who have been adversely affected by it.

I have calculated my personal risk of Covid using the Oxford calculator and the risk of me personally being hospitalised, let alone dying from it, is so small that for me it doesn't warrant the risk of the vaccine.

Op, you need to move away from the idea that all opinions are equally valid

They aren’t
Some are plain wrong and show misunderstanding, lack of understanding or just general ignorance

It’s just not the case that people have different opinions and that’s that

Of course have a different opinion on vaccine safety, but don’t expect people who actually understand risk to consider it valid, or equal to the opinion of people who actually understand how these things work

The Oxford calculator doesn't ask if you're pregnant, does it?

So what risk from the vaccine have you quantified..?

I think you are really mixing up concepts here and just showing that you simply don’t understand what risk is

Obviously it’s your choice to not have to the vaccine but it’s very obvious that it’s a decision you’ve arrived at because of what you don’t understand, not what you do understand

I really really wish risk analysis is was routinely taught as part of maths/statistics

To be fair it is just mathematics, and that type of thing is taught, especially at A level level. The application into real world problems like risk analysis would be up to the individual.

Someone scoffed at me on another thread once for using the term ‘risk assessment’, asked me if I walk around with a clip board. It made me disheartened because deciding whether something is ‘worth the risk’ is really really important as you say.

@housewifeathome

the risk is not equal and the risk from covid is very high (especially going onto winter with the delta variant) and much more dangerous for a pg woman and especially in the third trimester. The risk from the vaccination is very low. Therefore saying there is a risk either way is disingenuous as it is certainly not the same risk factor and gives a very different message

It all comes down to individual risk with something like this.

I don't know anyone over 50 personally who has declined the vaccine. I know about 10 people under 50 who have chosen not to have it. They won't sit there with calculators to assess their risk. They'll have a rough idea, based on their age, health and medical condition, how severe or not Covid would be for them. Then they weigh that up against whether they want to take a new vaccine to mitigate that risk.

It's not just statistical - it's what they are comfortable with. And that is very personal. You can't quantify that with a calculator.

[quote ivykaty44]@housewifeathome

the risk is not equal and the risk from covid is very high (especially going onto winter with the delta variant) and much more dangerous for a pg woman and especially in the third trimester. The risk from the vaccination is very low. Therefore saying there is a risk either way is disingenuous as it is certainly not the same risk factor and gives a very different message[/quote]
We didn't have the Delta variant last year going into winter, so how do you know?

So now the calculator isn't good, because it hasn't helped your argument after all?

Sorry OP I tried to be sympathetic earlier but you're just arguing yourself into a corner now. I do wish the anti-covid vax people would just be honest and say "my gut feeling is that I don't want to risk it and I can't get away from that feeling" rather than trying to justify or rationalise it.

It IS your choice and nobody should be denied that basic right BUT trying to argue the toss and justify that position where it isn't necessarily a rational one is why these threads always end up in a disagreement in the end. Seeking comfort from other people who've made the same irrational but heartfelt gut feeling is fine but you can't argue against facts and figures with that.

I'm nearly 36 weeks and have been double jabbed since 28 weeks. I have been continuing to work 2 days a week in the office, use public transport and socialise as normal. Wearing a mask tends to make me feel dizzy and faint these days, so usually don't unless I am sitting down with others in close proximity.

The vaccine has been the main measure I have taken to protect myself.

We didn't have the Delta variant last year going into winter, so how do you know?

the delta variant is held in the nose and throat and make it more infectious

www.rcog.org.uk/en/guidelines-research-services/coronavirus-covid-19-pregnancy-and-womens-health/covid-19-vaccines-and-pregnancy/covid-19-vaccines-pregnancy-and-breastfeeding/

fine to make up your own mid, but don't mitigate the risk to others in what you say

We didn't have the Delta variant last year going into winter, so how do you know?

You’re really proving my point now…

We know the risk from the delta variant
We know the risk from the winter season
We know the risk for pregnant women
We know how to add those together to calculate a new risk

The fact that you didn’t even realise that is possible shows you know absolutely nothing about this
It’s quite worrying that you’ve got so much confidence in your decision making process, if I’m honest

Not sure why you even started this thread really!

@8dpwoah

Sorry OP I tried to be sympathetic earlier but you're just arguing yourself into a corner now. I do wish the anti-covid vax people would just be honest and say "my gut feeling is that I don't want to risk it and I can't get away from that feeling" rather than trying to justify or rationalise it.

We don't have to justify or rationalise anything. It's our bodied and our decision. But when you have people questioning your intelligence it is human nature to try to explain your thinking. You don't have to agree with it of course, and I don't have to agree with your views either.

@Bennetgirl

Not sure why you even started this thread really!

It's not my fault it's descended into people trying to coerce me into taking a vaccine I have no intention of taking.

@SW1amp

We know the risk from the delta variant
We know the risk from the winter season
We know the risk for pregnant women
We know how to add those together to calculate a new risk

You forgot to add a very important point:

We don't know the long term side effects on anyone, least of all pregnant women and their children, from a covid vaccine, as this information isn't available yet.

It's not my fault it's descended into people trying to coerce me into taking a vaccine I have no intention of taking.

Its your choice to have the vaccination or not and it matters not to me whether you have a vaccination for flu, covid19 during pregnancy

What I don't respect is your flagrant misuse of words to justify this that may alter other choices

We don't know the long term side effects on anyone, least of all pregnant women and their children^, from a covid vaccine, as this information isn't available yet.

if you read the link I gave it does give the answers to this

[quote housewifeathome]@SW1amp

We know the risk from the delta variant
We know the risk from the winter season
We know the risk for pregnant women
We know how to add those together to calculate a new risk

You forgot to add a very important point:

We don't know the long term side effects on anyone, least of all pregnant women and their children, from a covid vaccine, as this information isn't available yet.[/quote]
Well, we kind of do…

We know the immediate biological reactions and why
We know what is and isn’t a possible outcome from the way the vaccine works

We know the initial cohorts have been reacting a way that is consistent with what was modelled/predicted in development and testing

We don’t need years of data to show us what happens
We use those to confirm that what we thought was going to happen, has happened

Again, you’re flagging up your massive lack of understanding
You’re not strengthening your case for why your decision is an educated one

@ivykaty44

It's not my fault it's descended into people trying to coerce me into taking a vaccine I have no intention of taking.

Its your choice to have the vaccination or not and it matters not to me whether you have a vaccination for flu, covid19 during pregnancy

What I don't respect is your flagrant misuse of words to justify this that may alter other choices

What you mean by that is you would rather other pregnant women just took a vaccine without questioning it's efficacy or long term effects on them or their baby.

I'm sick of the view that no one is allowed to question anything about this vaccine. Even if it is completely safe (and we won't know that until a good few years), you only have to look at Israel to see it's not especially effective, and by how many cases and deaths we have compared to this time last year.

I would absolutely never want to suggest to anyone whether or not they should have a vaccine. It's completely their decision. That includes my DH. He wanted it as he considers himself slightly higher risk. I respect that. I might not agree with it but I respect freedom of choice. However we must also have freedom of speech and should be allowed to question and debate things without being shut down.

Completely agree OP with your last post, it won't let me quote you though 🤨

What you mean by that is you would rather other pregnant women just took a vaccine without questioning it's efficacy or long term effects on them or their baby.

But you’re not doing either of those things

You don’t understand either risk or vaccines
But you expect your opinion to have equal weighting to the opinion of someone who does

If you came on and said you won’t fly on a plane through a thunderstorm, because you think it’s not safe, that’s fine. No one will force you onto the plane

But when a pilot, an aircraft engineer and meteorologist all then post to explain to you why it’s safe, and you just continue to shout ‘I’m entitled to my opinion, I don’t think it’s safe’, you wouldn’t expect everyone to conclude ‘fair play. She knows nothing about her subject matter but a strongly-held opinion is as good as one from people who know about this stuff’

By all means, refuse the vaccine and take whatever measures you need to in order to manage the risk

But for gods sake, admit that you’re not having it because you don’t understand how it works, not because you’ve got extra understanding

It's not just statistical - it's what they are comfortable with. And that is very personal. You can't quantify that with a calculator.

Isn’t that the exact point though? Some people just inherently don’t understand what the relative difference is in the risk so choose based on an incorrect assumption.

As another example, non vaccine related: 0.03% of babies born in the U.K. in 2017 tragically died as a victim of SIDS. Half of those are from co sleeping, 0.015%. Of which 90% could be completely avoided if there were no drugs or alcohol involved, 0.015% x 0.1 = 0.0015% of babies born in 2017 died because they co slept with their parent(s).

Whilst in the same year, 2017, 0.0094% of babies died of cancer. That is they are over 6 times more likely to die of cancer in their first year of life than co sleeping with their parents.

Yet, mothers everywhere are dragging themselves through the depths of despair to avoid it like it will be a direct cause of death in almost every case. I have never heard a new parent wracked with anxiety over whether their baby will die of cancer this year, I have heard time and time again in real life and on here how paranoid parents are about SIDS and the extreme lengths they go to to avoid it.

These things are quantifiable, but largely misunderstood.

@kam2020

Completely agree OP with your last post, it won't let me quote you though 🤨

Thanks. Phew. Glad I'm not alone I don't think it will let you quote if the message already contains a quote 🤷🏻‍♀️

What you mean by that is you would rather other pregnant women just took a vaccine without questioning it's efficacy or long term effects on them or their baby.

You're grasping at straws now, and I certainly haven't written that. Ive stated that you need to make your own choice and not push misinformation to other pg women - that doesn't mean that I think woman wouldn't do their own research and make up their own minds