Can't decide when to start ttc

[expat899]

Hey all. First time posting!
I'm 31 and my partner is 46. We've been together over three years now.
We are having terrible arguments about when to start ttc.

Background... we met while both working abroad and I recently moved to his home country. We initially agreed to get settled here then start trying. After bringing this up, he has now said he wants savings (but can't say how much and I know he's not actively trying to save) and that the time frame we agreed on is just a lose idea.
I have enough savings (and more) to financially cover us.

He keeps saying 'nothing has changed, I still want a baby with you' but his actions feel like the opposite at times.

He has a good job and i'm working as a teacher but just covering a maternity position at the moment. Neither of us are worried about me getting a permanent position but he's also said that I HAVE to be in a permanent position and not fixed term or relieving or he won't even consider it.

He's extremely stubborn and won't be reasoned with, it's very much a 'what I say goes' type of situation and anything that even looks like an ultimatum sends him in the opposite direction.

I'm so very worried about never having kids if he keeps putting it off due to his age etc. Am I being unreasonable? Should I just suck it up and wait a year in the hope he comes around and sticks to what we agreed on?

Honestly leave him. He’s stringing you along, probably because he doesn’t really want children. I’d normally say it’s time for you to decide whether kids are a deal breaker and to have an honest conversation with him but a stubborn ‘what I say goes’ type that won’t listen to reason is just ugh. Seriously don’t have kids with someone like that. Don’t stay in a relationship with someone like that. You deserve better.

I'm seeing some red bunting here.

You've moved to his country. What are your rights to stay there? Do you need to be married? What rights would you have in regards to coming home with a child if you split up?

Saying he wants savings but not saving sounds like a stalling tactic. Saying he wants you to have a perm job (fine in itself) but combined with other things sounds stalling.

What's his relationship history like? Does he have kids? My experience has shown that when a man dates a woman that much younger than him, he's doing it because he knows he has some time before the marriage and babies pressure starts.

@Twizbe

I'm seeing some red bunting here.

You've moved to his country. What are your rights to stay there? Do you need to be married? What rights would you have in regards to coming home with a child if you split up?

Saying he wants savings but not saving sounds like a stalling tactic. Saying he wants you to have a perm job (fine in itself) but combined with other things sounds stalling.

What's his relationship history like? Does he have kids? My experience has shown that when a man dates a woman that much younger than him, he's doing it because he knows he has some time before the marriage and babies pressure starts.

Yeah, I'm feeling some red flags.

He has two children from a previous relationship (both young adults now).

When we first got together, we had this discussion as I told him it was a deal breaker and he agreed that he would like more children as he felt he didn't have much say in his kids lives.

Honestly at a bit of a loss. Whether to leave, go home and start all over again OR stay and hope for the best. Everything else in our relationship is great (stubbornness aside). I would only be able to stay another 18 months if we broke up at the moment

Hi OP,
You're not being unreasonable, you want to start a family and making those feelings known is perfectly reasonable and normal in a long term relationship.

It's tough that you're both not on the same page but I guess the only thing I could suggest is sitting down and trying to have a rational discussion about timings and what he needs in his life before he feels comfortable to have children. And if that's actually realistic for the both of you to accomplish. Then you need to decide if you're willing to compromise on those things.
Also you need to consider what you'll do if you wait 12 months and he says no, let's wait another year because of X Y and Z reasons. And what will you do if you end up having fertility issues? As no one really knows whose going to be the unlucky couple that has unexplained infertility issues before they start trying to have a baby.
It's honestly a minefield when you're not on the same page so I'm really sorry you're having to make these decisions and question his actions.
I hope you can work it out x

@ThinkingOfPineapples

Hi OP, You're not being unreasonable, you want to start a family and making those feelings known is perfectly reasonable and normal in a long term relationship.

It's tough that you're both not on the same page but I guess the only thing I could suggest is sitting down and trying to have a rational discussion about timings and what he needs in his life before he feels comfortable to have children. And if that's actually realistic for the both of you to accomplish. Then you need to decide if you're willing to compromise on those things.
Also you need to consider what you'll do if you wait 12 months and he says no, let's wait another year because of X Y and Z reasons. And what will you do if you end up having fertility issues? As no one really knows whose going to be the unlucky couple that has unexplained infertility issues before they start trying to have a baby.
It's honestly a minefield when you're not on the same page so I'm really sorry you're having to make these decisions and question his actions.
I hope you can work it out x

I view things in this way and we can have reasonable discussions about everything but this.

He's still not thought of a figure he'd like to have saved just 'some savings' which is very frustrating. But he's also said that 'nothing has changed' and he's not going to keep putting it off. I guess I will just have to trust his word on this...?

Oh, when I wrote my comment I hadn't seen the others come in.
Having children already.... Yeah that's a big red flag for stalling altogether. He already knows what being a father is like so the other excuses now really sound like a stalling tactic.

Looking at the other comments, and obviously not knowing either of you. I would say you need to decide if having children is a deal breaker for you or not. If you decide you're fine not having children and being with him is more important then I guess tell him that. He will probably be relieved... Or he will be disappointed and you'll finally know his true feelings on the matter.
But if you decide children is more important then I guess all you can do is decide if you're going to wait to see if it's with him. Or give yourself a chance to meet someone new, or go it alone.
But think (and this is worst case scenario) are you willing to wait on his timeframe and will you be okay if that date comes and still he says no? Will you then carry on waiting or leave him a year, two or three down the line?
Also how is he with his other children? Is he an active father? ... I do think though having children already then you know what to expect and where you want to be in your life before having more. If you've never had kids then you can be forgiven for being worried about money, lifestyle change, will you be a good parent? Etc etc etc. But he already should know this stuff.
But anyway, above all else this is your choice. Best of luck x X

@expat899
Red flags he's stalling you, sit him down and tell him you want to start ttc and would like so in x amount of months get him to agree but when that date comes and he says let's stall it to x month walk away.

Do not wait around for a man who keeps putting it off and pp is right fertility issues can happen going through it myself 4 miscarriages and 1 cp I never thought I would be the 1% but here I am, your still young to find someone who wants what u want in life. 💐

This guy doesn't sound like he's really wanting to have more children, and it sounds like he's stalling for time. If you want children and he can't or won't commit to trying in a timeframe that's acceptable for you, then you may need to consider whether you'd prefer a life with children or a life with him.

I'd advise not putting things off too long if having children is important to you. I started TTC 7 years ago (when I was younger than you are now) and those 7 years have included miscarriages and fertility treatments... I'm pregnant now but still quite early and I've had to accept that fertility issues and time mean I probably won't be able to have the larger family I'd imagined. I'll be overjoyed if I can have one child. Don't waste your time and energy on a relationship if that relationship won't bring you what you need to be happy.

I do think as the pp said you need to look into the legal side of being unmarried in his home country potentially with a child and what would happen if you were to split.

The are lots of red flags here, including his behaviour.

I'm seeing even more red flags now.

Tbh, I'd see out your contract and then come home and start again. I don't think he's the right one to have kids with.

What has he said about getting married?

I think you need to try and have a conversation with him where you lay out that there is no reason to wait for arbitrary goals to be met, because you're setting yourselves up for failure.
It's really easy to get bogged down with needing to have your life 'in order' before you have a child but the reality is the timing is never going to be perfect, if you set yourself goals of needing a specific amount of money or a specific job role then it will be put off indefinitely.
As others have said, you have no idea how long it could take you to conceive and sadly that does need to be a factor, you could wait for the perfect time to start trying and then takes years to conceive and it no longer be the 'right time', it will happen when it happens, he can't try to control it to this level.
What happens if you guys are unable to save in the next year or so? What if there are some unexpected costs in your life that set you even further back with your finances, are you prepared to keep waiting for multiple years whilst you try to reach this goal (which at the very least needs to be set, not giving a number means he can fob you off forever!)
My husband and I intended to start trying in September 2020, with the intention of having one big travelling holiday that month as a last hurrah. Covid obviously delayed that and my husband wanted to put off starting to try until we could have this holiday, it definitely caused some issues for us as I felt it was stupid to delay trying to start a family because of a holiday. In the end I agreed to wait a while to see how the situation with covid played out but by December 2020 we had both agreed that we didn't want to put our lives on hold because of covid, even if that meant giving up on holidays and focusing on our future family. So in the end we only delayed trying by 3-4 months but we did have about 6-9 months of discussion to get to the point we were both happy to continue with trying to conceive.
It's not always easy to make these decisions, especially for guys who I think can sometimes view having children as a loss of their freedom. You guys really need to work to get on the same page or you'll end up a year down the line and no closer to a resolution.
He seems to keep shutting the conversation down and that's not productive. You should try and explain you're happy to wait a while, but perhaps suggest that you start trying to conceive when you've saved x amount of money or by a certain date, whichever comes earlier. It gives him an opportunity to save this money he feels he needs but with a deadline that stops him from dragging this out indefinitely. If he still fobs you off then perhaps you need to revaluate if his reluctance to commit to timeline of children is a deal breaker for you.
There definitely are some concerns around the fact you've moved to his country which will put you in a vulnerable position if things don't work out the way you hope.

Thanks all. It's good to know that my feelings are not unreasonable. I will sit down with him and talk about it again. I think what gets me is he isn't letting us put any concrete time frames down and that's why we argue. Any suggestions on how to have this conversation without it turning into an argument?

He wasn't involved in his children's upbringing by the sound of it. He doesn't want more children

Don't argue. Just tell him having children is not negotiable for you. If he doesn't want a child now, I wouldn't stay with him. Cut your losses and go home.

I don't think there is a way for this not to be an argument. He will want it to be one because then he can make you feel bad about starting the argument. He's hoping you then won't start the argument again.

Honestly based on your descriptions of him I have concerns that regardless of how you try to broach this he will turn it into an argument because he doesn't want to commit to a timeline (or perhaps to having children at all) and then have to deal with you being upset when he changes the goals post in (eg) a years time.
That being said I think you need to try & come at this logically so he can't just weasel out of giving you a straight answer.
I would start with his apparent 'key' issue of needing savings - tell him you need to know how much savings he believes he needs to feel comfortable starting to try for a baby.
If he refuses to give an answer - why won't he decide an amount? If the savings are the key issue, why doesn't he have a set goal in mind?
If he says he'll just 'know' when he has enough savings - ask if he can understand why that might be difficult for you, that means there is no timeline and the start of your ttc can be pushed back indefinitely.
What are the savings for? Supporting yourselves as a family if one of you is not earning whilst taking care of the baby? Saving to cover childcare costs?
Something else? What is the purpose of these necessary savings?
Then perhaps you can come to a figure together by doing research on costs etc.
Perhaps you can explain to him if his figure is excessive/unnecessary, why he doesn't need that amount of money, you will both be contributing (presumably) to the care of your future child and you can share that burden together.
If he does at any point agree a value of savings then I do think you need to have him agree to a timeline also, that supersedes the savings goal. Because otherwise ask him how long he'd be willing to delay ttc if something happens & you have unexpected costs that deplete his savings, the timeline could be constantly pushed back by outside factors whilst you wait for this one arbitrary condition to be met. Is he okay with this?
Ask him if he can understand why you're excited to start a family with him & why you might find it difficult to not have a timeframe for that to happen in.
You definitely need to ask him if he'd be okay with you guys never having children together - this question needs a straight answer and will probably be a key indicator for you as to whether or not he is really invested in having children with you or just agreed to it originally because it was something he knew you wanted.
Honestly, without knowing your relationship it's impossible to know how he will react or respond but this really doesn't seem like a conversation you can just leave or hope he will change his mind in a years time. If you let him then he will keep stalling as long as you'll let him drag it on & if having children is really a deal breaker for you then the earlier you get this sorted the better it will be. Whether that means you move on without him or he actually commits to a reasonable timeline to start a family and sticks to it.
You will need to consider if/when agreeing a timeline with him, that it's not so far away that if he renegades on it when it arrives, you haven't lost too much time in waiting, ie don't commit to 2+ years & then have to 'start from scratch' when he backs out. Better to have that realisation in eg 6 months when you haven't lost so much.

It doesn't sound like he's doing much to prepare to be a father and is putting it all on you and your job, despite you being the organised one with savings? Really he should be the one supporting you through this as you won't be able to work for a bit and he's 15 years older than you so should be settled/secure.

You are pretty young still and have time to start again and have babies with someone else, so that's a massive positive here.

I think you should give him an ultimatum, perhaps that you two need to start TTC by beginning of 2022 and in the interim you can both get fertility tests done, which will test his commitment immediately. He is 46 so unlikely to be as fertile as someone 20 years his junior. If he doesn't take this seriously and if Xmas comes and there's no breakthroughs from his side then I would call time. In the interim, I'd suggest that you don't speak about children, future, ttc-ing so you can both have head space, perhaps also start carving out time for yourself and don't always be fully available to him.

I had a similar experience. My partner wasn't sure he wanted children and I did all the above. He happily agreed to start ttc after the ultimatum period was up, it took us a year to fall pregnant but I am 36 weeks today! He also proposed 😊

So there is hope! But you have to play things carefully and put yourself first. And yes decide how important having a child is vs staying with this man.

Hope it works out xx

It does sound like he may have agreed to children to get you to move to his country and doesn’t really want them.

@summerhillgang

It doesn't sound like he's doing much to prepare to be a father and is putting it all on you and your job, despite you being the organised one with savings? Really he should be the one supporting you through this as you won't be able to work for a bit and he's 15 years older than you so should be settled/secure.

You are pretty young still and have time to start again and have babies with someone else, so that's a massive positive here.

I think you should give him an ultimatum, perhaps that you two need to start TTC by beginning of 2022 and in the interim you can both get fertility tests done, which will test his commitment immediately. He is 46 so unlikely to be as fertile as someone 20 years his junior. If he doesn't take this seriously and if Xmas comes and there's no breakthroughs from his side then I would call time. In the interim, I'd suggest that you don't speak about children, future, ttc-ing so you can both have head space, perhaps also start carving out time for yourself and don't always be fully available to him.

I had a similar experience. My partner wasn't sure he wanted children and I did all the above. He happily agreed to start ttc after the ultimatum period was up, it took us a year to fall pregnant but I am 36 weeks today! He also proposed 😊

So there is hope! But you have to play things carefully and put yourself first. And yes decide how important having a child is vs staying with this man.

Hope it works out xx

Thanks @summerhillgang this is reassuring and congrats!

We've chatted and agreed that once my implant is due to be removed (May/June) next year then we will start. Although he's still adamant I need a permanent job by that point so let's see. All this still came from a very heated discussion so it always feels like we haven't come to an agreement. I would love to just chat about it in a relaxed way so I'll try one more time to talk about concerns I have from what he has said. Let's see!

Thanks again x

Oh I how I foresee next years thread already- look OP he wants a baby to keep you, he doesn’t want a baby- he won’t want a baby when he’s a year older. But good luck to you

Well we have finally sat down and had a rational conversation that didn't end in an argument. We've agreed to start ttc in May next year which gives me plenty of time to focus getting a permanent job and getting more savings and him some time to bump up his savings.
He understands that if he changes his mind then I'm out. During this conversation he seemed excited about the prospect of us becoming parents and nothing was left unsaid. I feel like a weight has been lifted knowing we have an agreed timeframe that we are both happy with.
Thanks for all your replies. Fingers crossed all goes smoothly from here x

Good news OP. Glad to hear you have a plan!

I'm glad you have a plan you're comfortable with.

In the mean time really research the legal implications of having a child in his country. Especially as you're not married.

Now is the time to find out how custody works, whether you can leave the country with the child, what your status is if unmarried when having the child etc. Never assume anything is like the UK.

That's a positive update. I would get him to quantify what he thinks is 'enough' savings.

Also, have you had a conversation about how you plan to parent? This comment stood out for me:
"he agreed that he would like more children as he felt he didn't have much say in his kids lives"

All researched already! Marriage doesn't mean much for visas here in New Zealand and I've got all my visa options lined up should we split up. Thankfully, as a teacher, I'm eligible for a different visa if we broke up prior to me getting residency (which should be sorted by Christmas). But I'll definitely look into my rights with taking any children we have home incase we ever come to that. Hopefully not!

Yes, it was a concern when I first met him also. After getting to know his ex and her family, I understand how difficult it has been for him to have any say in their lives. Her parents took over every aspect of their grandchildren's lives and wanted them to have the best and new everything and go to all the lessons and extra curricular. He hates that but what can you do when it's 1 against a whole family. But that's none of my business and they're young adults now and they have a good relationship.

We've talked a lot about how we'd like to parent our future children and thankfully we are both on the same page with our morals, lifestyle etc. We've even discussed what would happen if we were to split. I'm under no illusion that all our plans will work out but at least we have had these discussions and have some understanding. 😊