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Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Original poster

Covid-19 Vaccine

19 replies

hollie29x · 02/08/2021 20:07

Does anyone work in a Care Home and been given until 11th Nov to be double vaccinated?

Looking for some advice ..

I don't feel comfortable having the vaccine whilst pregnant (personal choice) but now worried sick I will loose my job

I am currently 14 weeks pregnant and employer is aware but still served the notice

OP posts:
Original poster
hollie29x · 02/08/2021 20:24

@Siite I'm struggling to see how your response has answered my question?

OP posts:
Confused521 · 02/08/2021 20:35

I would try and obtain some legal advice. I know there are lawyers working through such cases but everything is so new and so untested in law.

InTheNightWeWillWish · 02/08/2021 20:43

Not a lawyer but there was talk of making medical exemptions to the mandatory vaccine. However, given the current regulatory advice is for pregnant women to get vaccinated, you probably won’t be able to claim medical exemption under the grounds of pregnancy.

Siite · 02/08/2021 21:27

[quote hollie29x]@Siite I'm struggling to see how your response has answered my question? [/quote]
The recommendation from those who know best, as opposed to to the average MN user who can't spell simple four letter words, is to accept the vaccination you've been offered.

This will protect you, your baby, the people you work with, society at large and, ultimately, your job.

Scirocco · 02/08/2021 21:44

@hollie29x if you have a union, you could speak with them to see where they stand on the issue. Your work may also have an occupational health service which could advise about your own health and how that relates to your work. You could also speak with your GP about whether the vaccines would be safe for you if you have underlying health issues.

The clinical recommendation is that people should be advised to get vaccinated in pregnancy, unless there's a medical reason why the vaccines would not be suitable for you. COVID-19 can be very dangerous in pregnancy - there are drastically increased risks of hospital admission, ICU admission, death and stillbirth. And the vaccines have been shown to significantly reduce those risks.

Are there any particular concerns you have about the vaccines?

MissChanandlerBong22 · 02/08/2021 21:45

@Siite

I think the problem lots of women have is that 6 months ago ‘those who knew best’ (i.e. the JCVI) were advising that pregnant women shouldn’t receive the vaccine and that non-pregnant women should delay conception for 3 months after receiving it (in effect delaying conception for 6 months) - despite the fact that non-live vaccines are generally considered safe for pregnant women.

Just to be clear, I’m very much in favour of pregnant women receiving the vaccine. I do not believe there are any safety concerns and I think all the available evidence is very reassuring. But I think sneering at women who are hesitant when the messaging from the relevant authorities has been absolutely chaotic is, frankly, pretty nasty.

Aquamarine1029 · 02/08/2021 21:48

You should be far more concerned about catching covid whilst pregnant. Pregnant woman are at much greater risk of developing severe illness from covid, and the vaccine has been proven to be safe for pregnant women the world over. My SIL got covid at 34 weeks and nearly died, and after the hell she went through, and is still going through, I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.

Scirocco · 02/08/2021 21:54

The government impact statement looks to be advising care home employers to expect to have to end the employment of up to 7% of their employees (estimating that this will be some people who haven't been able to get both vaccinations in time and some people who do not want the vaccine).

I don't know if you might have grounds for suspension on health grounds rather than losing your job? There might be room for some discussion about that if you're planning to get the vaccine after delivery, given how much conflicting advice has been given regarding vaccination in pregnancy. The most recommended course of action, though, is probably to have the vaccine unless there are medical reasons not to.

Siite · 02/08/2021 21:56

@MissChanandlerBong22

Guidance changes and the most up to date, based on recent research, is that pregnant women should be 'urged' to be vaccinated.

It's ridiculous to cite 'personal choice', when there's a blindingly obvious and extremely current answer. To dramatically do the opposite without articulating why is irresponsible.

What about the personal choice of care home residents not to catch Covid19 from those supposed to be keeping them safe?

Original poster
hollie29x · 02/08/2021 22:33

My personal choice that you find so offensive @Siite is following 8 years of crippling health anxiety and severe panic disorder. I have also had 3 miscarriages and a baby born at 16 weeks with fetal abnormalities all of which contribute to me feeling extremely anxious about receiving a vaccine.

As others have mentioned the guidance has changed quite drastically which again makes me unsure and I can't seem to find any studies about the impact on children in later ages because it's all still too early to tell.

OP posts:
metters78 · 02/08/2021 22:39

@Siite

The guidance may have changed but it hasn't really filtered down and pregnant woman are still not being given proper advice on this. I'm 29 weeks pregnant and have had both Covid vaccines, however neither my midwife and GP would talk me through it and when I asked about it they said it was a 'personal choice'. Some pregnant women I know have been told by their midwives not to get it. We've received conflicting advice throughout so it's not surprising ppl are hesitant. I was lucky that my parents are both in medicine so talked me through it and I felt it was the best option for me.

Sheisfee · 02/08/2021 22:57

@hollie29x you’re right, there isn’t any evidence of how the vaccine may impact children or may not impact children in the future but there is evidence as to how covid can very negatively impact you and your unborn child right now.

Siite · 03/08/2021 10:09

@hollie29x

My personal choice that you find so offensive *@Siite* is following 8 years of crippling health anxiety and severe panic disorder. I have also had 3 miscarriages and a baby born at 16 weeks with fetal abnormalities all of which contribute to me feeling extremely anxious about receiving a vaccine.

As others have mentioned the guidance has changed quite drastically which again makes me unsure and I can't seem to find any studies about the impact on children in later ages because it's all still too early to tell.

I do find the term offensive, and ignorant. It's may be your own choice, but it doesn't affect only you personally, just as choosing to wear a mask (or not), or keeping your distance from others (or not). It can be selfish. I didn't comment on that though, until you were sarcastic in your reply and said you were 'struggling' to see how my link was relevant.

It is.

You asked for advice and I posted some ear and relevant advice that came out on Friday; you're correct to say that the messaging hasn't always been as clear as it should have been, but the information is now there and I believed you should see it, in case you hadn't happened to come across it yourself.

Health anxiety might be a barrier to feeling confident in choosing the vaccine, but those in care homes are facing health difficulties which actually make them more susceptible to the negative effects of Covid19 and are in the most dire need. Health anxiety is not an underlying condition for for the disease, so shouldn't take priority over things that are. Conversely, extreme worry and concern for health perhaps ought to mean a vaccine against a threatening disease is a welcome relief. Currently, they are treating pregnancy itself as an underlying risk factor for Coronavirus.

You might not feel there's enough evidence for what the vaccine might do, but when making a decision like this we often want even more information. You have to use the information there is. (By the time you fell pregnant, the advice already was to have the vaccine when your age were invited, and everything that's come out since seems reassuring.)

If you've read beyond the headline, you'll see the vast majority of pregnant women in hospital (98%) are the unvaccinated, and it is the disease, NOT the vaccine theat has contributed to complications in later pregnancy for mother and baby, including early births.

MissMarion · 03/08/2021 10:37

@hollie29x

I know it looks like the guidance has changed for pregnant women but it's not really the case.

What's really important to understand is that when a new medicine (any new medicine) is approved (at least in EU), it's usually not advised for pregnant women, not because it's unsafe but because there isn't any data in this population (and there's usually a statement to that effect in the patient leaflet). This is for ethical reasons as pregnant women cannot be included in clinical trials, this would be very unethical. So in the absence of data, we prefer to be safe. This is why when the vaccines were rolled out in EU earlier this year, they were not advised for pregnant women.

What happened is that in the US and Israel, unlike in the EU, they did vaccinate pregnant women despite the lack of data (legislation might be different there). So the reason why in April the guidance 'changed' in the UK is that we got real-life (as opposite to clinical) data from over 90,000 US/Israel pregnant women (btw much bigger scale than a clinical trial) showing that the vaccine was safe and effective in this population. Based on the increased risk of COVID for pregnant women compared to non-pregnant women and the newly available data, the guidance was then updated.

Now, due to the new variant and latest wave of infections, the latest data show that pregnant women should actually be a priority group for vaccination (see latest communication on this). The amount of pregnant women ending up in hospital with COVID is very scary.

We now have data on more than 130,000 women and the safety of the vaccine is still not questioned. However, the risks of COVID on the pregnancy and the baby is very well known.

I hope this helps.

JackJack84 · 03/08/2021 10:58

[quote MissMarion]@hollie29x

I know it looks like the guidance has changed for pregnant women but it's not really the case.

What's really important to understand is that when a new medicine (any new medicine) is approved (at least in EU), it's usually not advised for pregnant women, not because it's unsafe but because there isn't any data in this population (and there's usually a statement to that effect in the patient leaflet). This is for ethical reasons as pregnant women cannot be included in clinical trials, this would be very unethical. So in the absence of data, we prefer to be safe. This is why when the vaccines were rolled out in EU earlier this year, they were not advised for pregnant women.

What happened is that in the US and Israel, unlike in the EU, they did vaccinate pregnant women despite the lack of data (legislation might be different there). So the reason why in April the guidance 'changed' in the UK is that we got real-life (as opposite to clinical) data from over 90,000 US/Israel pregnant women (btw much bigger scale than a clinical trial) showing that the vaccine was safe and effective in this population. Based on the increased risk of COVID for pregnant women compared to non-pregnant women and the newly available data, the guidance was then updated.

Now, due to the new variant and latest wave of infections, the latest data show that pregnant women should actually be a priority group for vaccination (see latest communication on this). The amount of pregnant women ending up in hospital with COVID is very scary.

We now have data on more than 130,000 women and the safety of the vaccine is still not questioned. However, the risks of COVID on the pregnancy and the baby is very well known.

I hope this helps.[/quote]
100% this!

In addition, although the covid vaccine itself is new, the underlying mechanism has been used for 15 years. If there was any effect on children's development it would've been seen by now.

MissMarion · 03/08/2021 11:30

@JackJack84
And I will also add that although no clinical studies were done on pregnant women, non-clinical studies (studies done on animals) were conducted.

"There were no vaccine-related effects on female fertility, pregnancy, or embryo-foetal or offspring development."

www.medicines.org.uk/emc/product/12740

www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-covid-19-vaccine-moderna/information-for-healthcare-professionals-on-covid-19-vaccine-moderna

Kittyswhiskers · 03/08/2021 11:33

Honestly as a vaccinator I would urge you o look at up to date guidance from rcog and disregard anything you read on social media. Pregnant women are much poorlier with the delta variant and I know of a few pregnant women who have had to deliver babies earlier or be ventilated and receive critical care support. On the other side of that I don’t know of ANYONE who is pregnant and been vaccinated and had any complications. There is a reason they are recommending the vaccine in pregnancy. Of course it’s personal choice but you really should do what is safest IMO.

Rosieposy89 · 03/08/2021 12:26

Op - I have health anxiety and GAD so I understand your anxiety about it. i had my second dose at 33 weeks on Sunday and feel so much better for it. Covid has massively triggered my anxiety so I feel like I've gained a bit of control over the situation by getting vaccinated. have you tried speaking to anyone about your anxiety around the jab? I know for me, anxiety makes me lose all perspective around risk and makes me avoid things and talking does help. The fact is Covid can be so dangerous in the third trimester, not having the vaccine feels an unnecessary risk for you and baby in the face of evidence. As for care home residents, they do have the right to live in a safe environment

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