Not sure about getting Covid vaccine

[19annie86]

Is there anyone else in very early pregnancy who is unsure about getting the Covid vaccine

@DizzySquirrel90

All the people advising saying there is 'no evidence to say it would effect pregnancy/ baby.'

That's because there is No Evidence.

It wasn't until very recently that pregnant people were allowed to have it. You won't know anything for sure or have any 'evidence' until a good 6/7 months has passed.

Not true the change in recommendation was based on evidence from the US who licenced it from the beginning of vaccinations for pregnant women so actually there is a huge dataset (including births) already before the UK changed the advice.

The reason for the advice in the first place is because the UK has the highest ethics standard for drug trials and approvals it is not possible to test on pregnant women.

By all means your body your choice but at least look into the facts about it and data behind it.

The fever aspect of the vaccination can be controlled with paracetamol and is short lived if it happens. The covid fever can get very high (mine was 38.8-39.5 for 12 days solid) and with long covid I now have daily fevers that I have to manage. Just giving some background of covid reality it's also pot luck to how badly you get it. On paper I was very low risk reality I got a moderate case and was very ill!

@Danxoie

I'm 35 weeks pregnant. I haven't had it while pregnant but will be once baby is here. The vaccine hasn't been around for years for us to know whether there will be effects on the baby in years to come. But it's personal preference and everyone is allowed a choice. My midwife hasn't even questioned me not having it. I will be isolating from 36 weeks though and have continued to wear a mask and stick with 2m distance when out food shopping etc.

Your midwife has no skin in the game, of course she's said nothing

@whistlers I think it's a personal choice. I'm by no means anti-vax but I am very strongly against any form of medical intervention that isn't necessary (in my opinion). Every drug you take, or procedure or injection carries a level of risk. So I do my research on each thing that comes up, and make my own decision. It's the same reason I didn't have the flu vaccine when pregnant, etc.

I do not believe the vaccine would increase my chance of miscarriage. However I do believe it could have serious long term consequences which I don't think will become apparent for many years. Having had one perfectly successful smooth pregnancy, I am now in a cycle of recurrent miscarriage, caused by immune issues. There is a chance those immune issues were prompted by artificial intervention in my immune system during or after my last pregnancy - e.g. the whooping cough vaccine I had in the 3rd trimester. The fact that there is a huge (and massively increasing) number of women in the same boat is concerning. There is research out there which indicate vaccines may contribute to long term health auto-immune conditions, allergies, eczema etc but of course the links to these things are very difficult to prove or disprove. In addition, (recognising I'm no expert!) I understand this vaccine works differently from others which are commonly given.

For the most part, we accept vaccines because we believe the risk of unknown side effects or short term side effects are better than the possibility of the illness the vaccine protects against. In this instance my personal decision is that I'd rather take the risk and not have the vaccine.

I'd never recommend having it or not having it to anyone else, it's all very much a personal decision and we all do what we think is best for our own health!

I was wary but after much research I decided to get it - had first dose at 20 weeks and due next dose next week at 28 weeks.

I am so glad I did to be honest, I feel like if I hadn't I would be in a constant state of fear, instead I am cautious but not terrified.

'Extra Life' Documentary on Iplayer is an interesting watch btw - swayed my decision slightly in that the science, research, intelligence, technology and dedication behind any vaccine, COVID included, is truly amazing. I certainly trust these people more than 'Karen's' and their homeopathic rubbish! :-D x

Nice misogynistic slur 👌🏻

Has everyone forgotten thalidomide? Which was initially developed as an anti flu drug, and parents were told it was completely safe. No long term safety profile means exactly that - no one knows how it could affect you or your child 2/3/5/10 years down the line.

@DizzySquirrel90

All the people advising saying there is 'no evidence to say it would effect pregnancy/ baby.'

That's because there is No Evidence.

It wasn't until very recently that pregnant people were allowed to have it. You won't know anything for sure or have any 'evidence' until a good 6/7 months has passed.

There is evidence, though, that catching Covid in the later stages of pregnancy can have horrific outcomes for mother and baby.

@Hatethisplacetho

No, I don’t think anyone’s ‘forgotten’ thalidomide (not that anyone on the pregnancy boards will be anywhere near old to remember the late 1950s). They just don’t think it’s a valid or relevant comparison.

That's like bringing up doctors prescribing opium, performing lobotomies and bloodletting.

Actually, there is real world evidence from the tens of thousands of pregnant women in the US and other countries who have had the vaccine and have had no adverse effects. In this case absence of evidence (of catastrophic side effects or an increased miscarriage/stillbirth risk) is evidence.

I was on the NHS ‘travelling in pregnancy’ page the other day, and I noticed that on the subject of travel vaccines they say:

‘Most vaccines that use live bacteria or viruses aren't recommended during pregnancy because of concerns that they could harm the baby in the womb.

However, some live vaccines may be considered during pregnancy if the risk of infection outweighs the risk of live vaccination.

Non-live (inactivated) vaccines are safe to use in pregnancy.’

No ifs, no buts - just ‘non-live vaccines are safe to use in pregnancy’. So that was the advice about vaccination in pregnancy before the Covid vaccine which I thought was interesting.

Why is it not a relevant or valid comparison? The point is drug companies lied through their teeth to parents about safety. Johnson and Johnson literally recalled 4 sunscreens last week because of cancer causing chemicals. They are still fighting legal battles over saying talcum powder is safe for mothers and babies, despite it causing ovarian cancer. Pfizer have lawsuits going back ten years over the safety of their products. It’s very naive to assume that pharmaceutical companies would not put profits above safety, in fact they have been proven time and time again to do the opposite.
Just because no issues have popped up in 12 months of trials does not mean the treatment is safe. It’s gaslighting to suggest otherwise. As PP have noted, it’s a calculated risk that everyone takes for themselves.

@Hatethisplacetho I certainly don't trust drug companies (or any profit-making company) to value the consumers' best interests over profits.

However, the Covid vaccines were developed by scientists and their data analysed by independent scientists. Covid was a unique situation. Scientific data was shared and immediately reviewed around the world in an unprecedented fashion. And we've had a huge amount of real world data (sadly) which has been outside the drug companies' control.

Just as AZ were not able to hide the blood clots issue, it seems unlikely Pfizer could cover up side effects. Independent government authorities around the world have been studying the vaccine roll outs across huge populations.

Do you believe that Pfizer would be capable of manipulating the real world data in the USA? Or of manipulating the evidence of how badly Covid affects pregnant women?

Otherwise, the facts still stand: so far, we have no evidence of harm from the vaccines, but plenty of evidence of harm from Covid. We have a lot of evidence that the vaccines stop the transition and development of serious side effects of Covid. So it would be logical to conclude that the vaccine (based on what we know so far), is going to do more good than harm to our unborn babies.

Yes, they could find out serious side effects down the road of the vaccine. But they could also find out even more serious side effects down the road from catching Covid while pregnant. Those are unknowns. We can only really base our decision on what is known.

@Hatethisplacetho

Why is it not a relevant or valid comparison? The point is drug companies lied through their teeth to parents about safety. Johnson and Johnson literally recalled 4 sunscreens last week because of cancer causing chemicals. They are still fighting legal battles over saying talcum powder is safe for mothers and babies, despite it causing ovarian cancer. Pfizer have lawsuits going back ten years over the safety of their products. It’s very naive to assume that pharmaceutical companies would not put profits above safety, in fact they have been proven time and time again to do the opposite. Just because no issues have popped up in 12 months of trials does not mean the treatment is safe. It’s gaslighting to suggest otherwise. As PP have noted, it’s a calculated risk that everyone takes for themselves.

It's not relevant because the safety control measures have changed a lot since 1950s! Medicine has progressed.

Don't take it if you don't want it but don't spout rubbish if you don't have a clue about the approval process. BTW they have been working on these types of vaccines for years. Coronavirus has existed for over a decade and there has been loads of research since SARS its just C19 which is new. But the type and structures they have years of research on!

There is a really alarming amount of scaremongering and misinformation on this thread

Personal choice if you’re too anxious to get the vaccine and would rather wait, fair enough, no one is forcing you. But spouting shite about miscarriage and still birth and thalidomide-esque birth defects at women who’ve chosen to take a more logic-based scientific choice is just scaremongering bullshit.

@Hatethisplacetho it's an irrelevant comparison because you're trying to compare a DRUG to a VACCINE. Biologically, these could not be more dissimilar than comparing chalk to cheese...

There is a lot of perceived risk about this vaccine. I think people are getting caught up on that because you can control the decisions around getting it or not. Real or imagined, you have control, a 'choice'. In pregnancy, that's a HUGE deal.

However, the risks of catching covid are real and ever-increasingly documented. But you can't control whether or not you get it to the same certainty. There is no choice in the matter. If cases are rising in your area, at this point, to be honest, you will likely get it. Will you regret decisions that you've made if you do get it?

And there is a chance your baby will be born with some protective antibodies. Can that be a bad thing??

Honestly, as long as you thoroughly educate yourself. Read the studies, look at the stats, you've made an informed choice. I suppose that's the best you can do!

If you aren't getting the vaccine, are you also not going to get your child's jabs? You do realise that other children who do have their vaccines would be protecting your child through herd immunity at that point? We clearly haven't reached that point with covid!!

@Hatethisplacetho

But Pfizer/Moderna aren’t sitting there rubbing their hands going ‘let’s tell them it’s safe in pregnancy, then we’ll sell a few more doses.’ That’s not how the approvals process works. There are hundreds of other organisations involved globally. It’s also not how business works. Pfizer or Moderna would have zero appetite for that litigation risk.

And the comparisons with thalidomide are irrelevant because:

• Thalidomide was a drug, not a vaccine.
• It was 60 years ago. Processes, knowledge and practices have changed completely. At the time it was believed - wrongly - that no drugs could cross the placenta so no prior testing was required. Ultrasound was also unavailable.
• As a result, Thalidomide was not tested at all prior to being given to pregnant women. When tests were finally (far too late) performed on pregnant animals, its effects were immediately clear. The Covid vaccines have already been tested on pregnant animals and no signs of reproductive toxicity have been found.

I don’t care whether anyone gets the vaccine or not, it is totally a personal choice. But comparisons with thalidomide are pure fake news.

I wish there was a ‘like’ function on here, because I pretty much want to do that on every one of your posts @MissChanandlerBong22 !

@GreenMeeple

I waited until 16 weeks, not because the vaccine in itself is harmful but because of the risk of getting a fever. I know people who have had a fever with in 24 hours of getting the vaccine and it's on the list of potential side effects.

A fever in the first trimester can be potentially harmful to the baby. However getting covid in your third trimester can be dangerous for you. My midwife recommended waiting until week 16 and try and get the second dose before the third trimester.

But it's a person choice in the same way as eating certain foods is or stepping into a jacuzzi when pregnant. Many people don't get fevers from the vaccine and many pregnant women get fevers during the first trimester and have health babies. You have to make your own risk assessment.

I agree I'm 6 weeks 4 days and I'm going to wait till I'm 16 weeks I've also read about harmful affects on having a fever on baby befor 12 weeks so for that reason I'm holding off getting it

Obviously your body, your choice etc. but have you considered the possibility that you'll get a fever if you get Covid. Vaccination won't necessarily stop you getting Covid, but it will likely lessen your symptoms. Basically every person I know had the Pfizer vaccine (including myself) and not one of us had a fever as a symptom. I did take paracetamol for a couple of days both times after the vaccine as the sore arm is no joke, but I had no other side effects. It's estimated that 1 in 75 people in England has Covid at the moment, so unless you are able to avoid going out at the moment it is more of a risk than it was that you could get Covid.

@Welshcake15 Like I mentioned its a personal risk assessment. Personally I work from home, have no other children and DH works in a small office that has a lot of measures in place to prevent covid spread. We order in all our shopping to get delivered and on the rare occasion we have met up with friends it has been in outdoor. So for me personally, getting covid was quite low in those 16 weeks. We count ourselves really luck actually because on one in our direct vicinity has had covid so far. (Maybe because we have some very fundable people amongst them so everyone is very strict on the rules)

I also know of 3 people that had a fever from the Pfiser vaccine. Nothing too bad, all over after 24 hours.

If I or DH worked somewhere with a lot of people interaction, like a supermarket or hospital, I would probable have considered taking the vaccine sooner.

@Welshcake15 I definitely had a fever with covid, for 12 days continously high and now have daily fever spikes which I manage with paracetamol and catching it before it gets high with long covid.

I think many people think they will get it mild or asystomatic but I learnt the hard way your risk on paper doesn't equate to what happens (on paper I should have been mild) and reality is its pot luck.

I do think though they could do more for reassurance and advertise the information better so pregnant women can find it easier to find the information and make the choice which is best for them.

I decided that a fever from the vaccine wouldn't be as bad as a fever from live covid.

It's a total no brainer but my husband commutes to central London on the tube so I feel safer with the vaccine

I am 15 weeks and not having it.

OP have a look at pregnant then screwed on Instagram. Lots of interesting info which may help. Either way, do what's right for you & baby x