Pregnant women in their third trimester and Covid-19 at work

[kitty0801]

Hello,

I am a 27 week pregnant secondary school teacher with an underlying heart condition. The pandemic has been a scary time for pregnant women and we are not out of the woods yet.

I’m hoping the mumsnet community can rally together to support a government petition I have launched in support of pregnant women in their third trimester who work in public-facing roles where social distancing measures are not possible.

Data from the RCoG shows that 1 in 5 women who contract Covid-19 in their third trimester gave birth prematurely as a result, with all the risks that incurs for mother and baby. Intubation and emergency c-sections are more likely, as are babies being admitted to new-natal intensive care units. Most shocking is that women with Covid are twice are likely to have a still birth. Currently, vulnerable pregnant women are fighting an uphill battle to get vaccinated, as MP Stella Creasy has found out first hand.

At present, restrictions are lifting yet there is a new variant at large. It is currently at the discretion of the employer as to whether they choose to offer any protection to their female employees. This is wrong. Women in their third trimester should be automatically shielded on full pay; it should not be a lottery. Especially vulnerable are our key workers and those in less stable employment, who have already born the brunt of the pandemic. Lives of mothers and babies are at risk and we should not be an afterthought.

Whilst some in our society enjoy our emerging freedoms over the next few weeks, we must also consider those who are still not out of the woods until the pandemic is over.

If successful this petition would be too late for me personally but I hope will benefit other pregnant women, especially if there is another wave.

If you do feel you can support this cause, please sign below and share with friends and family. The petition is open till November 6th.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/586094

I really appreciate your support.
Thanks, EM

Women in their third trimester should be automatically shielded on full pay

Sorry, can you explain why you think that should be automatic? I can work safely from home and I’m more than happy to accept the risk of going out and about in my personal life, I don’t want or need to be shielded for three months!

Sorry no.

Pregnant women can't expect to be full paid for 3 months forever - Covid isn't going anywhere. New variants will always be appearing

The stats involve women with covid assuming you are fully vaccinated then the risk of catching the virus are decreasing daily

I'm in my third trimester, and a key worker who has worked throughout the pandemic and pregnancy, and I don't want to be shielded on full pay. Even if you can't socially distance at work, there are plenty of steps you can take to minimise risk of transmission and having the vaccine will reduce your risk of becoming seriously unwell.

The reasons you've quoted sound scary but in reality the risks (whilst higher) are still extremely small and are most linked with those who would be classed as vulnerable for other reasons. There is no need for the majority of women who aren't vulnerable and have a low risk pregnancy to shield in the third trimester, unless they are classed in a vulnerable group for another reason eg underlying health condition. Vaccine access is improving in most areas now.

If you are concerned for your own well-being ask for your risk assessment to be reviewed and seek support from your Occupational Health dept/GP.

Signed

The amount of pregnant women who are fully vaccinated must be tiny, theyve only just started advising we even have it!

Also pregnant and definitely don't want to be told to shield! The vaccine is finally available to pregnant women who are eligible and cases are currently low.

I've decided against the vaccine for now. But even with that in mind the thought of another 3months of being stuck inside. Which would meaning taking my DD out of nursery and trying to WFH without any support from my family or ability to go out fills me with dread.

Maybe on a case by case basis, at the advice of a consultant. But forcing everyone to shield, including those who will continue to have to work from home in order to earn, is a ludicrous idea.

Out of interest, do you actually mean shielding? Or just not going into work but still leaving the house for other things?

Yes i agree it should be case by case but there should be some way someone perhaps the womans midwife can step in and say no that isnt a covid safe working environment.

I dont think women in their third trimester should be working in our schools right now but many are

It sounds like you are very fortunate your employer has given you the choice to work from home. Not all women are in that position; it’s those that have exhausted all avenues for whom this protection would be crucial. Front-line workers cannot necessarily be allocated to work from home and these are the women most unlikely to be able to socially distance in their places of work. OH combined with the current government guidance is no guarantee women can be kept safe.

I just say I am surprised that this is the reaction...

Thank you @THATbasicSNOWFLAKE for your support; it is much appreciated

Has your head said you can’t work from
Home from 28 weeks?

As a last resort can you get signed off with stress?

@kitty0801

It sounds like you are very fortunate your employer has given you the choice to work from home. Not all women are in that position; it’s those that have exhausted all avenues for whom this protection would be crucial. Front-line workers cannot necessarily be allocated to work from home and these are the women most unlikely to be able to socially distance in their places of work. OH combined with the current government guidance is no guarantee women can be kept safe.

I just say I am surprised that this is the reaction...

Yes, I am fortunate like lots of other pregnant women, and so the point is that you’re framing your argument in the wrong way by saying that women in their third trimester should be automatically shielded. As you can see, lots of us don’t want to be, and besides which, paid leave should surely only be used as a last resort, where there’s no possibility of creating any kind of safe work environment. Do you literally mean shielding or would you expect women in their third trimester receiving full paid leave from their employer to still be able to enjoy their social lives? If so, how can you argue that employers should give them three months paid holiday for their own protection? And if not, why would young healthy women who aren’t ill want to give up their freedoms again? Plus, by November, everyone will have been offered two jabs. This seems like a non starter all round and you do other women no favours by speaking for us to make untenable demands on employers.

Hello @Onceuponatime1818 this petition is not for my benefit; it’s for those women who are front-line workers and haven’t been given (a) an offer of a vaccine or (b) an offer of alternative work / home working / paid leave.

No pregnant woman should have to resort to getting herself signed off with stress through failure of an employers to protect her, although understand this may be the route some women have been forced down.

I’ve signed but I do agree with some of the points here - it might be worth rewording some of it! Maybe women get given the choice? And I also agree that shielding on full pay should be a last resort as wfh could be the first option which would be better for a lot of situations.

My understanding was that legally if your employer is unable to provide covid-secure workplace to women in their 3rd trimester you can be signed off with full pay.

I would suggest listening to the recording of the Pregnant then Screwed webinar with Stella Creasy - they had a lawyer on who talked about pregnant rights during COVID and the obligations for employers.

I see where you're coming from OP. Pregnant women in the third trimester shouldn't have to feel forced between getting a vaccination that has unknown outcomes for the child, or working in public facing roles. The opening up is quite bad timing for those in the third trimester, women getting pregnant from around last month/this month should increasingly have their full vaccinations right the way through pregnancy. Personally I not shielding but because I have diabetes and am overweight in the third trimester I am taking maternity leave a bit early from 33 weeks to give me a bit more control over who I see and when. The GP wouldn't vaccinate me when we last discussed it and I don't really want the vaccine at this stage.

I have an issue with this: Most shocking is that women with Covid are twice are likely to have a still birth.

I know which article you are referring to because I’ve read it and what I noticed within the article is that most women who tested positive for Covid-19 were from a black, Asian or other minority ethnic background. The rate of stillbirth for a black woman is double the average anyway and only marginally below the rate of the covid study. The study hasn’t delved into the already known rates of still birth happening across these groups and then determined what the increase is. It also hasn’t considered pre-existing conditions or the effect that stay at home and don’t overwhelm the NHS had on the population as a whole. Given that, black women have a higher rate of miscarriage, stillbirth and chance of dying in pregnancy, I think it’s safe to assume they also have higher risk of neonatal hospital admissions and preterm labours.

To get a useable statistic, we need to extract the number of these incidences for women in these backgrounds and what the increase might be. We should also take the woman’s role into this analysis and determine how at risk of exposure she is, with other underlying conditions and ethnicity creating a risk profile attached to her. Shielding should not be automatic for pregnant women and even every pregnant women in a public facing role will not need to shield. It should be a consideration from the woman’s health team and the woman, the same with everything in pregnancy. It would also only be until 36 weeks given that maternity policies are that if you go on sickness related to your pregnancy in those last 4 weeks then your maternity leave starts. So you would be asking for some women to receive extra maternity allowance for 8 weeks if their job can not done be safely, their risk of exposure to covid is higher and their ethnicity or underlying health conditions makes them more vulnerable to covid.

Another pregnant in the third trimester. I disagree too. I had my vaccination and want to continue going to work. If you are worried call your GP and they will arrange to vaccinate you.

The op might not be old enough to be able to get a vaccination yet. She also may not wish to have it while pregnant.

The point is though that whilst yes there will be a number of women currently pregnant who don't want to have the vaccine that will be short lived as they have their babies and the next lot of women getting pregnant will be vaccinated already before they conceive. Therefore this "issue" is temporary and many pregnant women don't want to shield either whether they can WFH or not

If you want to shield fine but take statutory sick pay or start maternity leave early - the taxpayer/employer shouldn't have to pay for it

She also may not wish to have it while pregnant.

That’s fine, but women who make that choice can’t ask their employers to give them three months paid leave for it!

@InTheNightWeWillWish regarding that study, have you read the article about the study or the actual study? In the actual study it does say they have adjusted for ethnicity but it’s very wordy and I’m not sure I’ve understood that correctly or not so I could have misunderstood that.

@Wowthisisreal the problem is that many employers are saying they are ‘covid secure’ but pregnant women there may not feel safe. It’s up to the employer and no one comes and checks that it is in fact safe! For example many schools have said they are covid secure but many have said they are not, but they’re all in essence doing the same measures. Now with students no longer wearing face masks, it really is not covid secure yet many pregnant women in their third trimester are still in the classroom.

@breadbinbaby that’s the point that was being made - that women shouldn’t be forced to decide between a new vaccine and risking their health and that of their baby’s.

I don't think anyone is saying you should be forced to go into work. What a lot of us are saying is that it should be on a case by case basis assessed by your midwife and employer.

For you this might be at home on full pay, or another job within the school which isn't face to face teaching of a large group. I imagine with the amount of out-of-hours/out-of-school work teachers do they'll be plenty you can do that isn't face to face teaching. So off on full pay probably isn't the best solution.

I'm in a low risk category, I can work from home most days, and days I need to be in the office my employer is happy for me to adjust my hours to miss rush hour trains. In my case it would be ludicrous to be told to shield on full pay, and would likely impact my work and MH. Plus I suspect my midwife and employer would be in agreement that shielding isn't the best option for me and therefore shouldn't be forced upon me.

I didn’t misunderstand the point but they’re not forced to, they can choose to start mat leave from 29 weeks if they want to, plus employers already have lots of obligations to pregnant employees with regards to health and safety. Choosing not to have a vaccine in a pandemic but to ask someone else to pay you a huge amount of money to protect you from said illness instead, and get nothing in return, isn’t reasonable. Three months paid leave is an extreme ask for most types of work, except in rare cases where it would likely be granted under existing law.

I’m 20 weeks pregnant, due in October, and getting ready to go to get my first vaccine.
I understand the sentiment behind your petition, and it’s why women who were pregnant last year were shielded for the most part.
However, by the time your petition closes, we’ll all be vaccinated. I’m not sure it’s going to be necessary.

Thank you for trying to make change OP - I think it's what it always comes down to, that pregnant women should be given the choice.
If you want to continue to work (not from home) in third trimester, then that's great, and I'm sure no one would want to stop you from doing that - but no one should be forced to when they don't feel safe. As the OP said, it shouldn't be a lottery of whether the employer feels like they want to give women options, or try to force women to choose between having much less maternity leave to actually spend with their baby if they take this early, as their workplace is not and cannot facilitate social distancing (ie in schools).
It's a shame that due to the time line of petitions that it won't come into effect sooner for those women who won't be able to get vaccinated in time, as they haven't been offered it yet due to age etc. As other posters have said, hopefully by November it won't be as much of an issue, as everyone will have had the option of being vaccinated. But something ought to be done for those pregnant women in the meantime that this isn't covering, so OP (and others, I'm sure), I really hope that your unions/MP/bosses etc support you to feel safe at work and have fair options.

I’ve signed @kitty0801, I am currently 33 weeks pregnant with my first and a frontline healthcare worker.
I am currently off sick until my maternity leave starts as my ward/environment was not safe for me to continue working in and my highers weren’t willing to redeploy me to a safer role. I work with mixed elderly patients, roughly 60% have some form of dementia and can be challenging at times/downright aggressive. I asked to be moved to a daycase ward/clinic environment where I could still carry out my normal job role but with less manual handling and less chance of being attacked while heavily pregnant and I was refused. They deemed the ward I work on to be covid safe (when it wasn’t at all) and didn’t take into account at all the Heath and safety at work Act, which actually states that if your employer cannot or will not redeploy you to a safe working environment then you will be sent home on full pay.
I am not vaccinated as my trust didn’t allow it earlier in my pregnancy and I now have to wait until I have delivered to receive the vaccine.
It’s a really crappy situation but I’m lucky I had the sick leave to take otherwise I would be putting myself and my unborn child and potentially my colleagues at risk had I have still been working... it’s bigger than just c-19, healthcare workers get such a bum deal and are just expected to get on with it when we receive all the promises that we’ll be put on light duties etc, when the reality is the complete opposite!