Breastfeeding advice

[EmilyDoesntKnowHerStuff]

Hi, I hope I’m posting in the right place. I’m currently pregnant with DD2 and I’m in need of breastfeeding advice.

Unfortunately breastfeeding didn’t work out with DD1 and I’m sure this contributed to my PND and feeling like a failure. I did want to and I tried, but for some reason my milk never seemed to come in. By 10 days old, DD had lost so much of her birth weight and in my panic at the time I gave formula and that was that. My breastfeeding attempts just stopped. I am so annoyed with myself still for this, as I didn’t get any advice to try to continue or combination feed. Family around me were all very pro formula feeding too.

So this time around I am determined to persevere with breastfeeding! But I am so scared of being in the same situation watching my baby continue to lose weight until I’m forced to formula feed. Can anyone give me any advice on getting my milk to come in sooner? (I’m pretty sure I can produce milk because bizarrely when DD1 was about 6months old I started leaking milk all the time, which continued for a year!)

So, should I try hand expressing milk/stimulating nipples in the lead up to my due date? Or will this potentially lose valuable colostrum? Can this be stored ready for when DD is born?

I feel like I should know so much more than I do second time round but I’m absolutely clueless and terrified of it all going wrong again.

I’d also like to add this is nothing against formula feeding, as long as babies are fed that’s the important thing! But it’s just a personal feeling of guilt for me that I couldn’t breastfeed last time.

Thanks for any advice!

Hi OP,

Sorry to hear you had so many problems last time. Do you have a local La Leche League? It might be worth contacting them and asking for their support in getting feeding established.

You can absolutely store colostrum before the baby is born, you can express it into syringes and freeze it. You do have to be a bit careful of when you do it though I think, as there is evidence that nipple stimulation can induce labour, and you don't want that to happen too early!

That’s great thank you so much for the advice!

I haven’t heard of La Leche League so I will definitely look into this thank you! I’ve even been looking into hiring a lactation consultant, although I have no idea how much this would cost (a lot I’m guessing!) and whether this would be worthwhile.. Does anyone else have any experience of this? I feel like if I’m going to succeed I’m going to need a lot of help! I’m very small-chested and never seemed to ‘grow’ during pregnancy, plus I have flat nipples which probably doesn’t help! Although in the days directly after DD1’s birth, the midwives were happy with the latch. I just didn’t have any milk at that point!

Maybe it just isn’t meant to be ☹️

OP,I am so sorry about your initial experience but it's understandable that first time it is completely new and unknown journey.I did struggle with my 1st as well.
All I can suggest is to not to worry too much as it will be a different baby and a different experience altogether.Size and shape of the breast and nipples are no obstacle and don't worry about it all.You may want to use a syringe aspirator to help to extend a nipple before feeding to help baby to latch.
I am assuming that what you have experienced was due to a lack of proper support in the first few days/weeks.So ask for help as much as you need in hospital and during postpartum visits.
I also second the idea of La Leche League,their website is amazing and they do phone consultations if I remember correctly.I will also recommend KellyMom.com website,lots of very helpful info about breastfeeding.
I have 4DCs,different experiences with each,never straightforward in the first 12 weeks but it was usually pretty easy from then on.In fact I was feeding my other 3 until it was too embarrassing to mention (well into toddlerhood .
Wishing you good luck

Yes you can store colostrum by expressing in to a syringe and storing with lids which you can purchase on Amazon. The milk can be frozen for 6 months. You shouldn’t really try and harvest any colostrum until 36/37 weeks.
I recommend the book The Positive Breastfeeding Book to help you prepare with what to expect, how to overcome any problems etc. Really helped me second time round

Thank you all so much, I really appreciate the advice!

I do wish I had asked for more support last time. I felt like I ticked the box for ‘latching ok’ and that was the end of it from the midwife. And when I went onto formula due to DD’s weight loss, my HV didn’t question it or encourage persevering with breastfeeding. I know this is my fault, but I felt too easily influenced by family and friends not to bother. I still get upset about the time DD was only a couple of days old and FIL was cuddling her, she was screaming so I wanted her back to feed her again and he said “she’s only just had a feed”. Obviously I was still struggling with milk supply at that point!

Hi @EmilyDoesntKnowHerStuff Laleche have local groups you can join. I just joined as I am breastfeeding my 14 month old and have learnt I am pregnant again and my group had helpful advice. My first baby also lost about 12% weight by day 10 so I started him on formula but health visitor saw I was disappointed so gave me a tip to only use the formula to top up. After he regained the weight I was told to stop the formula all together. I was worried but it did the trick and I’m still breastfeeding. In fact he’s got a fever now and has lost his appetite but is still ok to breastfeed so I’m happy he is getting some nutrition.

What I meant was when he lost the weight I expressed milk and gave it to him and only topped up with formula. I think he needed 50ml or something at a young age so it would be eg 30ml breastmilk topped up with 20ml formula. After he regained the lost weight, I wasn’t sure what I was producing but the health visitor suggested stopping the formula altogether.

Thank you birdbybird, that’s exactly what I wish I’d done! I still feel sad about that and probably always will 😔 but at least I know more this time around. Big congratulations to you! xx

I was lucky as pre covid but was in hospital after a csection and basically had a midwife sit their for over an hour getting milk out of me (no joke!) It took so so so long. Just constantly doing it when ds slept.

You can also get proper hospital breast pumps they rent out to you which are more effective. Can you speak to your midwife about it now? Give them as much notice as you can you'll need help.

Also check for tongue tie. I love the nhs but they are reeeaaally bad at dealing with tongue ties. I got mine done privately. So many babies have them and they are notoriously missed. Double or triple check if not sure.

Also join your local breastfeeding Facebook group. Mine saved me and gave me details to a local lactation consultant who cut my baby's tongue tie. Still feeding a 15 month old to this day!

Good luck op you can do it.

Oh and whilst waiting for tongue tie cut, I expressed him into a cup and he lapped it up that way.

I would have a read of the book "the womanly art of breastfeeding" to give you some knowledge before the birth. I echo everyone who says to look into your local LLL group and any other support group you can find locally. Facebook groups are also great. Also find out from your midwife what support is available on the NHS. Write all the support helpline numbers down somewhere with easy access. I struggled at first with my son, but having watched my sister struggle I was prepared for it so I had a sort of support network plan in place. I ended up having someone to my house to help, I went to a breastfeeding clinic at the hospital and I attended the LLL meetings. I fed my son for 17 months.

That’s so true about tongue tie! DD1 was diagnosed with this by the second midwife who came out to see me (I seemed to have a different one at every post natal visit!). The first midwife missed it. But I kept being told she’d grow out of it. I did end up taking her to my GP twice because of this but was told she was too old to do anything about it. I do so wish I’d pushed for this at the time! I feel like I was such a pathetic hormonal mess in those early weeks I just did what I was told to avoid being a nuisance. And now I live with that guilt 😔

@Lelophants after your c-section what did the midwife actually do to get the milk to come? Was it literally just hand massaging around the nipples? xx

‘She’s only just had a feed’

That’s key I think here. There’s no problem with that at all. The first 6-12 weeks is all about them feeding more.
If they feed a bit, they might just stop as tired, then want to start again 15 mins later.

The more frequent they feed in the early weeks, the more your body produces as it thinks oh more is needed than yesterday. So think nothing of feeding them 10 times one day, 15 then next, 12 the next... it’s always changing the first few weeks

For what it’s worth, my breasts never really changed size. They got slightly bigger about 3-4 weeks after birth, but seem to have remained the same since. They are fairly small. Ds is now 9 months and feeds still.

Also silly question but where can you get the syringes to give expressed milk to your baby? Obviously they have to be sterilised beforehand? And once you’ve managed to express any milk how long can it be kept for? Does it have to be frozen if it’s being stored, or can it go in the fridge?

Sorry I don’t know anything about this 🙈

That was exactly the problem @Caspianberg ☹️ I was desperate to get her back to feed again but FIL actually got a bit annoyed at me because he wanted to cuddle her! It still makes me angry now! My in laws were used to SIL formula feeding from day 1 so I don’t think they understood it was different for me trying to get breastfeeding going!

If only I’d had DD1 during a lockdown! Everyone would have left us alone and I might have had more success xx

Morning OP.
Are you me?!
Similar BF experience to you first time round, I’m currently EBF 15w old DD, so it’s very possible and achievable.

You’ve had some really good advice up thread, LLL and kellymom are sites I’ve found useful. If you’re on FB searching for your local peer support page is a good idea, in our local area we have an infant feeding team for the fist 28d postpartum and face to face and virtual support from HVs following that.

The other thing I’ve found to be useful is making sure my partner was supportive, he was in a general way, but I needed specifics from him and outlining those in black and white helped. If I got my breast out, he brought me a drink, he entertained the toddler etc etc, especially useful in the early days.

Nearly every woman I’ve spoken to has stuggled to get BFing going, mainly cos it’s blood hard work to start with, but I can hand on heart say that once DD hit six weeks it fell into place. It that first 2-3 weeks was a slog and there were times I felt like I was failing and formula would be easier, but I’m glad I persevered.

But don’t research to far as it could be a bit anxiety inducing maybe?

I didn’t express any colostrum before birth, but you can get 1ml syringes with caps from amazon and they can be frozen for 6 months I believe. But the midwifery assistant helped me express while I was in hospital as DD was a bit sleepy and struggling to latch. I also didn’t leave hospital until I felt like we were on the right track with feeding. Nearly every feed I got the assistant to come over and quite literally give me a hand! Don’t worry too much about expressing colostrum as baby needs such a small amount and the hospital have cracking breast pumps should you need them.

I guess what I’m saying is do a bit of reading around, make note of support networks and just breathe a little about it. I know it’s so very important to you, it was to me, but don’t go into it with so much pressure on your shoulders x

Hi op,
Please don't beat yourself up about your first attempt. Breast feeding is a skill both you and your baby have to learn. Here's my experience. Ds1 had an infection at birth due to my waters breaking early. The plan was to only breastfeed but the nurses gave him formula so that he could take the antibiotics. I tried for a month to establish breastfeeding but ds1 was happy with formula so I stopped my breast feeding attempts.
Ds2 was born last October. I wanted to try breastfeeding again. Like you, I wanted to try and felt bad that I didn't manage it for ds1.Similarly, my waters broke early and antibiotics were needed again. I offered him my breast when we did skin to skin in that first hour. I think offered him my breast whenever he wasn't sleeping.
I had a delay with my milk coming in and ds2 was losing weight so I took to my bedroom with ds1, surrounded myself with snacks and Netflix and just fed as much as possible. Every opportunity, I just offered him a feed. I had problems with latching and got thrush but managed to treat it and pushed through with the feeding.
After 2 weeks he had regained his birth weight and then some.
At about 10 weeks, I felt truly settled with breastfeeding and confident we were doing it right (my boobs stopped leaking in between feeds at this point, too.)

Ds2 is now 16 weeks old and we are pros at feeding. I'm so glad I persevered after my difficulties with ds1.
I joined fb groups for support and asked mumsnet a lot of questions. I also rang the breastfeeding helpline the hospital gave me when I left. Just for advice when I needed it.
I wish I hadn't beat myself up so much last time as breastfeeding is hard going and not always the intial beautiful picture that's painted.
You will know your dc2 better than anyone and you will know what he needs when he and when he needs it. Trust your instincts. Enjoy the journey, I'm happy to answer any questions if you have them.

@EmilyDoesntKnowHerStuff there is loads of good advice on this thread already. I had my daughter last May and feeding hasn't always been easy. If I were to do it again I would:

Seek support from the hospital feeding team before I left, (midwife said latch was ok but turned out it wasn't)
Get them to check for tongue tie
Have a number for a lactation consultant and someone to deal with potential tongue tie (we had it snipped at 4 weeks privately as nhs in my area were not doing the clinic due to covid 19)
Lots of nipple cream
Stay in as close contact as possible with the baby (skin to skin) while you are getting established
Any questions or worries then speak to the lactation consultant, it's not a specialist area for most midwives
Make sure you drink loads as it really helps if you are hydrated.
Be calm if you do end up using formula. My daughter has been combi fed for months as I was struggling to breastfeed, top up and pump, it really impacted my mental health. At 9 months she typically has 2 small top ups a day but we are still breastfeeding.
Take one day at a time

I had a c section at 36 weeks with DD1. I had to pump every 3 hours 24 hours a day to get my milk to come in. Baby was fed product of pumping (took two days or so to get something, by 5 days milk was in) and topped up with formula. It was hard work but I find of so much less work once you are through the first month or so.

I was kept in hospital through this, so had a lot of support. Definitly seek out LLL and your local breastfeeding network.

I think your experience is common and a lot of women experience breastfeeding grief when it doesn't work out. I think partly this is because we're told it's natural and assume it'll be easy, which is definitely not the case in the first few weeks even if it goes well after that.

With colostrum harvesting, I got syringes from my midwife. There are good YouTube videos to watch on this. You can use the same syringe for one day stored in a fridge, then freeze after each day.

I definitely echo what others have said about feeding as much as you can. I definitely heard the line "she can't possibly be hungry, she's only just fed" a lot! I'll definitely have more strength this time to insist on taking baby back. Mine was little and often. She also had tongue tie which we worked through but in hindsight I wished I'd had it cut as I think it affected her efficiency for quite a while. I seemed to have to feed a lot more than friends and she pinged on and off quite a lot.

Definitely get your partner on board like a pp said. Mine made sure I always had a drink. I remember sandwiches just appearing next to me! In those very early days once I got the latch I didn't want to move a muscle so needed my phone and the TV remote in very specific places.

For lactation consultants, look at the llbrc website as that is who gives the accreditation. I follow some on social media which is good to build information.

Hope you have a better experience this time or at the least feel that you've given it your best shot so you can feel more comfortable formula feeding if that ends up being the best route for you. Xx

Thank you all so much xx

It gives me so much hope hearing of your success stories and some similar experiences.

Last time I was home within 6 hours of DD’s birth, which at the time I saw as a good thing! Now I’m realising I needed the support and once I was home I was too afraid to ask for it! I’m definitely going to reach out as much as I need to this time.

Read Clare Byam Cook's Breastfeeding Without Tears

I should say, I had exactly the same experience as you and breastfed successfully the second time (though I chose to combine feed)

That’s really useful to know, thank you @VinoWitch! I think if I can combine feed too I’ll be really happy! I don’t want to put too much pressure on myself to EBF incase it all goes wrong again and I’ll be gutted all over again! Do you mind me asking how that worked for you? Did you have a strict daily schedule and formula feed at certain times of the day and BF at others? Or just either as and when it worked for each particular day? X

Also last time I suffered awful dry cracked nipples and any slight milk I could produce was running red with blood. I’ve read that that is safe for baby to drink still, but is it possible to FF until the nipples heal and then try to BF again? Or should I try to express (is that any less painful than a babies latch when nipples are cracked??) to help nipples heal quicker? Or just soldier on through that pain and eventually it’ll heal on its own? X