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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

PhD and pregnancy

21 replies

sciecha · 19/01/2021 13:40

Hi all, I'm 4 months pregnant and in the final year of my PhD. I had funding for 3.5 years but the last 6 months are unfunded (i.e. not paid). Because my baby is due in that unfunded period, I'm not entitled to SMP from the uni, and because I haven't being in formal employment I'm not eligible for maternity allowance from the government. I'm trying to finish my thesis before the baby comes but realistically I don't think I'll feel ready to start working before 6 months post-partum. Has/is anyone gone/going through this? It feels like a very lonely and vulnerable position to be in and I'm so excited to become a mother but also worried I'm failing already as so financially fragile. I'm in a solid relationship and I know we'll get through this, but I would just love to connect with someone in a similar situation...

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scrambledeggy · 19/01/2021 15:10

Hi @sciecha, I'm in the third year of a 3 year funding period that concludes in October. I'm 5 months pregnant, and more or less on track to finish a thesis draft, but with everything this past year has chucked my way I'm not completely convinced that all will go to plan. I am also in a different sort of muddle in that my funder (a charity) doesn't offer funded parental leave, nor does my university formally employ me (despite me doing lots of casual work for them lol, classic schrodinger's PhD student).

I am going to wait until I am more confident of my timetable for finishing before trying to negotiate with my funding organisation. I am very lucky that my partner works, but he is currently between jobs, and I still don't know where I am going to be living in a couple of months so I can't even plan for academic job applications. Basically no helpful advice but solidarity as I have no idea what the hell I'm doing Confused

WolfMother326 · 19/01/2021 16:32

Hi @sciecha, first, congratulations on your pregnancy AND on getting towards the end of your PhD. I finished mine 2 years ago and have been doing the rounds of lot of short term ECR contracts, so although I have completed the thesis I'm in a relatively similar situation of trying to get publications out and not getting maternity leave (I think I'll be able to get Mat Allowance through Job Centre, but not my current uni job where I've worked for a year because my contract ends just before I'm elligible for SMP etc).
I just wanted to say that you should take all the time you need if you can - ask the university if you can do a break in studies, if that's possible? Any funding body should agree to this. Different circumstance, but a friend of mine lost a parent during her unfunded writing up year and took 1.5 years off, then came back and finished in 1 term when she was ready. So I know that this is possible.
Also, I wanted to say you are not alone, so many women struggle with academia and pregnancy, especially in the early stage. I hope my own experience helps you see there is never really a 'perfect time' and you will get through it! Feel free to DM or keep in touch if you need any encouragement.

And congrats to @scrambledeggy too!

saamantha19881 · 19/01/2021 16:41

I am 15 weeks and doing minor corrections right now.
It’s been beyond stressful, but you get through it. Take each day as it comes

sciecha · 20/01/2021 10:12

@scrambledeggy Congratulations on your pregnancy and for making it this far in your phd! I know exactly how you feel and it seems we are in a very similar position. I'm also trying to finish a first draft (currently only on my first chapter!), with very little data as all my experimental work has been thrown off course due to the pandemic, and on top of that my partner is out of a job because of covid. What seems crazy to me is that we fall into a loophole where we don't seem to qualify for anything. Even UC isn't a given as we are classed as full time students are therefore not eligible. There must be a way around this but this feels terribly discriminatory. Yes we've decided to pursue long term studies but as you say, many of us contribute and work casually for the university/funders (industry in my case). I almost feel irresponsible for having a child in such a situation and yet I'm 27 which isn't an unreasonable time to start a family!
I really hope that you manage to write up as much as you can and that your pregnancy goes smoothly. If you ever need to chat please feel free to message me.

@WolfMother326 Thank you so much for your message, I found it really comforting. I know what you mean about there never being a perfect time, especially in the careers we have chosen, and the short term post-doc contracts offer so little security. I know a few colleagues who have put off having children for years and years because of this...
I have considered interrupting my studies and also not rushing to complete, but it feels like it would drag everything out more. A medical interruption only covers 3 months pay as well so I although I wouldn't have the stress of writing up during pregnancy, the funds would dry up pretty quickly. As for taking my time, although I'll automatically be granted an extension to write up my thesis because of pregnancy, getting back into writing after so many months off, with a young baby just seems even more difficult. On top of this, we are both French and if I finished my thesis it would give us the chance to go back and live closer to family. But you are right, taking my time is an option and if it gets too much I will consider the alternatives and not put myself under undue stress.
Congratulations on your pregnancy! Thank you for your words of encouragement, I might very well send you a message in coming weeks!

@saamantha19881 Congratulations on your pregnancy and passing your viva!!! Good luck with your corrections and I hope you can relax a little soon.

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TooManyDinosaurs1 · 20/01/2021 11:17

How far into your unfunded period is your baby due? If it’s only a couple of months can’t you suspend now (due to stress?) and then your baby will be born inside your funding period? If you are with a uk research council they will pay mat pay even if your baby is born on the day your funding runs out. I had 2 children during my PhD, I got mat pay both times, I was actually in my final year when I had my first child but I went pt and then applied for an extension. My supervisors weren’t very happy but I completed after I had my children.

FoodandFelines · 20/01/2021 11:34

@sciecha Congratulations on the pregnancy and being nearly done with your PhD. With the benefit of experience and hindsight, I actually think a PhD is the best time in an academic career to start a family. The pressure of publications and time pressure (the clock starts ticking from the moment you pass your viva) become much more intense the further you progress in your career. The advice below is based on the assumption you are doing a lab-based science PhD, which it sounds like you are.

I finished my PhD over 7 years ago and am currently pregnant with our first baby, although I met my husband in my first year of PhD and we could have had kids much sooner relationship-wise. But, as you well know, it just never seems the right time. First you're waiting for more financial stability, then to get this paper published or this funding approved etc etc etc. It's a race against the clock once you finish your PhD. I'm happy with my decision, but I did start and finish my PhD very young.

Regardless of what your PhD supervisor might say (and I have been on both sides), your goal is to get a decent thesis written up and to learn as much as you can during your PhD. Essentially, you are trying to set yourself up for future success by learning how to be a good scientist and mastering relevant techniques (particularly important if you plan to move to industry). Your future and career success will be dictated by your productivity and impact factor of the publications you produce as a post-doc, not as a PhD student. Getting lots of data and good publications from your PhD helps, of course, but your future employer will care more about what you know, how strong your scientific reasoning is, your ability to come up with novel research ideas and plan and execute experiments. I didn't have a publication when I finished my PhD. I did publish my PhD work in a high-impact journal in the end but it was nearly 4 years after my viva! In the meantime, I started a postdoc at one of the best universities in the world, decided I didn't like the lab and got another postdoc in another top lab. Both were 5-year contracts despite not having published my PhD work. I'm telling you this to say that you can get jobs even in the best labs in the world without having a first-author publication from your PhD on your CV. I also know of other people who have also moved on to take very competitive postdoc positions without having published from their PhD. And having been on interview panels myself, I know that a publication is desirable but not the most decisive factor. With covid delays in the mix, people will be even more understanding, so please don't worry about the amount of data you have right now. It is what it is and you need to focus on the end goal.

Now, what you do need right now is to write up your thesis asap because it will be much harder to do if you try to come back to it after baby. And then, having written the thesis, decide strategically whether it is best for you to submit the thesis or ask for a break from your studies, since you will be unpaid anyway. The reason you might want to delay submitting the thesis is simple: many grants and fellowships will have a time limit post-Viva when you are eligible to apply. You will get an allowance for an extra year if you've had a baby but still, the later you have your viva, the better for you right now. Alternatively, I would submit asap if you current lab or university can transfer you onto a "bridging contract" or a postdoc contract. I think that, as long as you are in employment by 25 weeks of pregnancy, you will qualify for some financial assistance from the state.

Finally, every PhD student I know currently has received a 6-month funding extension owing to covid delays. Have you and your supervisor tried to apply for/access such extra funds? It might mean you could be paid until the end of your pregnancy at least.

As hard as academia and the job insecurity it brings are, I feel that remembering there are positives too helps during difficult times: beyond the fact that most of us love what we do (huge plus), working in an academic research lab is still one of the most flexible jobs I know. Most of us can organise our work around our schedules and don't have defined working hours every day as most jobs do. More often than not, this means we end up working a lot more than a "traditional" job and I have personally worked more weekends than not over the past 12 years. But it also allows you to arrive and leave when you need to, as long as you can figure out how to get your work done, which is a blessing for people with young families. And you can also have periods of more intense work and periods of less intense work to accommodate for other things in your life. Moreover, all labs I've been in have allowed me to work from home when I had periods of computer work (writing thesis, writing papers, intense data analysis), even before covid times. Again, that gives you huge flexibility to organise your work around other commitments. In terms of funding: yes, it sucks being always on fixed-term contracts! It helps to join top labs that are more likely to have a constant stream of funding etc. It also helps to secure jobs with a 3-5 year contract (again, well-funded labs that have been awarded a big grant), rather than 1 or 2 years, which seems to be all too common these days. But ultimately, let's not forget that, unlike most other jobs under the sun, you can't really be fired during your contract and, importantly, you know exactly when your contract is ending. I have friends who have been made redundant with 1 months' notice. In academia, I know exactly when my contract ends and can start planning for it or applying for another job many months in advance. I rather appreciate that.

Good luck with writing your thesis (it can be done much faster than you think - about 6 weeks if you buckle down and just do it! Again speaking from mine and others' experience) and hang in there! You can do it and you will be alright. SmileFlowersBrew

WolfMother326 · 20/01/2021 13:29

@sciecha it sounds like you have a strong sense of what is the right thing to do. If you feel you can get it done and be back near to family, go for it! I agree with @FoodandFelines that you can get it done more quickly if you put your mind to it. Also, a thesis is not a finished work - it should be as good as it can, but you'll have space and time to make amendments before publishing part/all of it etc.

Glad you are doing what you feel is right and not waiting (I've had older colleagues/mentors make comments to me about waiting til I'm 40/have a permanent post to try, but that's not for me!) feel free to get in touch and in the meantime stay relaxed.

FoodandFelines · 20/01/2021 16:41

I 100% agree with @WolfMother326 that a thesis is not meant to be a finished work. Done is better than perfect, now more than ever. Obviously it should be scientifically accurate and it is a document that you're putting your name on to that will be in the public domain forever and can be cited, but it doesn't need to be a finished project or the most elegant manuscript you will ever produce. You will have the chance to make corrections to your thesis after your viva, so don't stress the small things. And then you will have time to polish everything for publication, which is what the vast majority of people will read anyway.

sciecha · 26/01/2021 20:05

@FoodandFelines @WolfMother326 Thank you so much for the really encouraging words and I'm sorry that it's taken me a week to reply. I was struggling to get into the flow of writing and needed to put everything else a side for a bit. I've now managed to complete a first draft of a chapter, which feels good!

As you both say, it doesn't have to be a completely finished piece of work and expecting a baby has made me put me in a position to realise that. I don't want to be working on this for another year and although my work isn't where I expected it to be when I started, I've learned a lot about the field I'm in, specific techniques, scientific method, etc. So there is still lots to write about.

@FoodandFelines It is really refreshing to read that publications are not the be all and end all when applying for post docs. Academia is tough, but as you say there are definite perks to the job and having so much flexibility will be such a bonus as we start a family.

I didn't quite realise the financial position I would be in at the start of my pregnancy - although I never though it would be very comfortable - I and finding out the details last week made me a bit anxious. It isn't something I can control though and completing my phd will definitely put me a in a stronger position in the future so I just need to focus on that. It's lovely to know that I am not completely alone so thank you so much for having taken the time to reply to my post and share experiences/advice.

@FoodandFelines congratulations on your pregnancy as well!

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sciecha · 26/01/2021 20:45

@TooManyDinosaurs1 my due date is 2.5 months into my unfunded period, so the funding body won't pay mat leave. If I interrupt for a medical reason such as stress supported by GP evidence, I could get up to 3 months sick pay. So I guess I could interrupt now then start again in June and go on mat leave but I don't feel that would go down well with my supervisors/the uni. It would also mean that I wouldn't be pushing back applying for a job. Had my due date been 3-4 months earlier I definitely would do this but right now it doesn't feel the best solution for me..
Well done on completing a thesis with children, that must have been so hard!

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NotThatKindOfDoctor · 26/01/2021 21:28

My youngest was under a year old when I started my PhD, and I had 2 more DC during the course of it.

I just popped in to say, it can be done and I agree with PP that perfect is not the standard. I was awarded my doctorate in 2019, and when I read over parts of it now (that I’m using for other publications) sometimes it makes me smile, sometimes it makes me cringe, but after my viva I only had 32 typos to fix (even though there are parts of it that when I look back, I definitely would love to improve).

The absolute pleasure of having your kids watch you at the award ceremony is pretty special as well.

Good luck!

JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson · 27/01/2021 07:22

Does your university offer any writing-up grants that you could apply for?

sciecha · 27/01/2021 22:56

@NotThatKindOfDoctor Wow well done! I can imagine it must be so special having them their when you get your award! And thank you!

@JohnMiddleNameRedactedSwanson I had no idea those types of grants existed until a quick search after seeing your message. My university definitely doesn't offer anything them and neither does the EPSRC but I will look into whether some other organisations do. Thank you for the suggestion!

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antx · 19/08/2021 11:34

Hi @sciecha @scrambledeggy @TooManyDinosaurs1

Wondered if you might be able to help with some advice?

I hit 5 years since beginning PhD in September, I have had two extensions, the current one taking me to the end of Sept but I am working full-time. I am pregnant and due end of November so I have to submit by end of September if I want to have a chance at finishing this thing. I have two examiners lined up, however, one of them is part-time and has said it will take 12 weeks for her to review my thesis, meaning my viva would be January at the earliest. In some ways this feels like a good option, submit in September, have baby November, viva Jan-Feb time, however I'm afraid I will forget everything and will find it very difficult with a new baby. My only other option would be to ask for another examiner with the aim of having the viva end of October (4 weeks after submission), (I wouldn't be able to submit any earlier than end of Sept because of work), but that seems unlikely to me though possible I guess. The win would be that everything would be fresh in my mind for the viva.

Just wondered if anyone has any experience being in a similar situation or if you have any advice? Is it completely unrealistic to expect I could have my viva end of October thus meaning I should accept the current examiner? How difficult is it having a viva 4-5 months after submission after just having had a baby? And then doing corrections with a baby? (I will be on mat leave from my full-time work for a year from Nov)

TooManyDinosaurs1 · 19/08/2021 12:13

Hi my PhD took forever, I've not yet handed in my corrections (my post probably made it sound like I had, by "completed" I meant passed). I've actually had a 3rd child since I wrote that post 🤣! I handed in Oct 2019, my viva was Nov 2020 (was meant to be March 23rd 2020 but that was the day england went into lockdown) I passed it at 28 weeks pregnant. I was working full time, have 2 other children under 4 and was having a rough pregnancy so they gave me 6 months for corrections. My intention was to hand them in before I went on mat leave in Feb 2021 but I was too exhausted to do anything. I'm unofficially on mat leave now with uni and just need to get my corrections done when I can (I've no deadline as they've no policy for having a baby during corrections). It'll probably be Nov I think when I get them finished.

In terms of a big break between hand in and viva it was hard in some ways, but then again not that hard. I wrote the thing and spent years collecting the data. I obviously had to read it cover to cover and made detailed notes but that's normal prep anyway. Once I read through it all came back and in some ways it was good as I could read the work and critique it with fresh eyes like the examiners would. I think there was only one question during the viva that was something I didn't have an answer to fire back immediately. I'd picked holes in it myself so had prepared for anything they might comment on. It went well and I actually enjoyed it in a funny way!

In terms of rushing to do the viva before giving birth, it'll be fresh in your mind and easier than once you have a baby to look after. I've put corrections on hold as I'm breastfeeding around the clock and he won't take a bottle, I wouldn't have the head space right now to prep for a viva. If you can I'd probably get it done sooner, examiners say they need ages to read a thesis when in reality they spend a couple of days reading it max, or like my supervisor (Mr Big in the field and head of department in a well respected uni) he'd read them on the train down I kid you not.

I think whichever way you do it it's hard in some ways, the other thing to think about is if you need to have the PhD awarded sooner for employment reasons. I didn't need my PhD for my job in the end as I have a masters too but it helped me get my job so there's no pressure from work to get it done by a date. My sil on the other hand was employed before she finished her PhD by a uni and was lecturing, they were very strict that she needed it awarded by a date or her contract would be terminated.

Riskybiscuits · 19/08/2021 12:31

Congratulations OP! It is a big gap PhD candidates fall in with funding and mat pay. I was completing my funded PhD when I had DS2. I was registered self-employed but had not yet made my NI contributions for the qualifying period. You can make early NI contributions if you register as self-employed (do you do any work at all e.g. proof-reading, tutoring? I'm not sure you actually need to make a profit to qualify as self-employed). Could this be an option for you?

Tina8800 · 19/08/2021 12:35

@sciechasciecha Congratulation on your pregnancy! I am a third year self funded PhD student, 5 months pregnant. As I had to work on the side of my studies, I will get maternity allowance. There is a lot of teaching opportunities in my department, in the last two semester I was teaching 4 modules. Do you have any opportunities to take on some teaching or any other work around the campus on the side? I also wanted to continue with my ta job, but they would take away the maternity allowance if I worked more than 10 days (annoying really, as it would be an "easy" way to make some money on the side).

TooManyDinosaurs1 · 19/08/2021 12:48

I was replying to @antx 👍 not the original poster 😊

scrambledeggy · 20/08/2021 07:05

Hi @antx !
I now have a young baby and am close to completion. I took a few months of maternity leave from my studies and like @Tina8800 claimed maternity allowance due to previous ad hoc ta work, and my funder not offering any formal maternity leave.

My funded period has ended but I have found a bit of extra funding, so my plan is to get as much childcare (mainly family) for my LO as possible and try and get through submission and revisions as fast as I can. I have been told that in my faculty, the done thing is to issue major revisions to all those with young kids regardless of content to allow them extra time- I'm hoping I won't need it though as (I HOPE) LO is finally beginning to sleep.

Sorry for this slightly useless advice, I am still in the middle of it all but just wanted to reassure you that playing it by ear is totally fine, and that you are doing so well to considering all of this (not sure I did tbh).

Zippy1510 · 20/08/2021 09:29

As a PI I would say do whatever you can that works for you- don’t worry about your supervisors or the university being unhappy. I say this to my students all the time when they are worried about taking periods of leave or juggling short term contracts. We have our permanent positions, do not make your life harder for yourself because you are worried about upsetting us!

sciecha · 13/10/2021 21:39

Hi @antx, I'm sorry I totally missed the notification for this post back in August. I submitted my thesis back in May and had my viva in June, when I was 38 weeks pregnant. It was incredibly intense but I'm glad I was able to do it that way as I think I would struggle a little to prepare for a viva while taking care of my daughter. Like @TooManyDinosaurs1, I'm exclusively breastfeeding and she won't take the bottle from my partner. That being said, you will make it work whatever your situation. You have invested so much into this PhD you know the topic inside out and as long as you can reserve a couple week's worth of time to prepare for your viva, you will be able to defend it with confidence. I would suggest asking a colleague or supervisor for help with this, as you'll need to get your head back into "academic mode".

I'm now trying to finish my corrections (was given 3 months but asked for an extension) and also look for a post-doc position. I've been pretty unsuccessful at both but hoping that things will get a little easier as the nights become more reliable. Please let us know how you're getting on. Congratulations on your pregnancy and for submitting your thesis!

@TooManyDinosaurs1 Well done on juggling it all, that's so impressive!

@Riskybiscuits I didn't even think of that but I didn't do any of those sorts of jobs on the side. Thank you for the tip though!

@Tina8800 Congratulations on your pregnancy! It's wonderful that you will get MA and that you can avoid this weird stressful limbo phd students fall into... It will definitely make life a little easier for you. You might also be eligible for the Sure Start Maternity grant. I was based out in the sticks far from the Uni for my phd because of the research topic and therefore wasn't able to take on any of those positions.

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