Pregnant teacher in covid tier 4

[Luckynumber5]

Hi all,
I’m just wondering what precautions are being put in place for pregnant teachers in schools in tier 4 (am in London) with the new more contagious covid variant? RCOG (and my doctor) says strict social distancing and doctor also advised wearing a mask. Currently 24 weeks pregnant but very worried about getting sick with covid after CDC research showed pregnant women 4x more likely to go to ICU, especially in 3rd trimester. Midwife also said pregnant women with covid need to be checked for blood clots. Local authority and Union will support working from home after 28 wks. School have said they will support this too. Wondering if there have been any changes for anyone with increased risk in school? Legally, the workplace must not pose any additional risk to staff than outside the workplace so I’m interested to see what schools are doing to meet this obligation.

P.S please no posting of replies saying ‘pregnant women at no higher risk’ as my doctor has clearly told me this is not the case.

LittleRa sorry you’re school isn’t treating you right. If staff turnover is high then there must be an issue with the school... if they aren’t supporting you is it really somewhere you want to stay? There are so many lovely schools out there that treat their staff well. Might just be something to consider after your maternity leave. Remember your head isn’t the pregnant one... you are. It’s not his/her health and baby on the line.. it’s yours. A foolish head if you ask me to ignore the recommendations as if something were to happen, he/she would be liable for putting you at risk. I know what you mean about doctors not wanting to put something in writing. They may be happy to sign you off though?

All the guidance schools have been given relates only to teachers after 28 weeks. Other than that it's business as usual, although there is no revised guidance, specifically relating to schools, for the new Tier 4 yet.

The 23rd Dec guidance is for ALL employees and employers.

It is untrue that it is business as usual for teachers before 28 weeks- check the RCOG, clearly says risks must be mitigated or staff should be found other duties or suspended with full pay. It’s the legal right of every pregnant women to not be at any additional risk in the workplace than she would face outside of work. This ‘business as usual’ mindset is dangerous.

I was sent my risk assessment. I annotated it and highlighted where national social distancing measures could not be adhered to. I then asked my head and chair of governors to physically sign the document. They were reluctant to sign something in black and white that had a pregnant employee working in unsafe conditions. HR would not give them assurances that the DfE ‘mitigations’ were actually safe. The result it I am working from home from 28 weeks. But it is ridiculous that I was put in that position of having to fight for my right to be safe. The 23rd Dec guidance for ALL employees and employers makes it very clear that social distancing needs to be adhered to. If it cannot be adhered to then WFH or suspension on full pay is necessary (note that I think the latter would trigger mat leave at 36 weeks).

Is wearing a mask with a clear mouth window and 1 metre still meant to be adhering to social distancing?

If you are doing small group work at a table still not socially distanced is it?

@LittleRa I find it so sad that you're having to choose between the safety of you and your baby, and job security. I don't think an email to your head pointing out your position would lose you part time working. They've already chosen to make your life difficult, and presumably you didn't bring that on yourself!

@LemonadeLocomotive it’s only 1m if both you and the children are wearing face coverings. 2m without or with only one party wearing a face covering.

Thank you @Glitterynails obviously primary age kids aren’t going to be wearing masks so I need to speak to my head.

@Glitterynails do you have a link to anything that says both parties need face masks for one metre? Would like to go armed with info thanks

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing/coronavirus-covid-19-meeting-with-others-safely-social-distancing
National social distancing guidance

I work in a convenience retail store and I've put myself behind the tills now because customers do not social distance. I wear a mask and have screens, also sanitizer, but still taking dirty money from people's hands and packing bags for them, I have to help people on the self checkouts where I'm brushing shoulders and also have to run to the warehouse to collect people's argos parcels for them.

I've spoken to my manager and sent him this link and apparently we're a covid secure workplace and he can offer me gloves to help with taking money from people..
it's really effecting my mental health now and I'm not sure on what to do anymore, I cry most days thinking about going to work. I'm already at risk for preterm labour so I'm freaking out that covid could potentially put me at greater risk.

I've decided to take my maternity 2 weeks before original date because I feel I have no way out of this 😔

That does not sound like a covid secure workplace. What a joke!

@Glitterynails
I know! One of my supervisors yesterday was asking how much I really wanted to stay behind tills because he wanted me to do something other than tills. I obviously said I want to minimise being close to people as much as I can. He even agreed that it made no difference to being on shop floor anyway 🙄 my manager has apparently spoken to HR and is going to go through my options today.. wish me luck, I don't hold much hope🙄

Well in light of my area moving to Tier 4, my Head (who I have described her response to my consultant advising I am not “public-facing” earlier in this thread) has texted me this evening to say:
Please can you call your GP surgery or consultant in the morning to ask whether they have now added you to the Shielding list? Thanks.
Well obviously I’m not going to be on the shielding list... pregnant women are in the Clinically Vulnerable not the Extremely Clinically Vulnerable. I don’t want to shield- shielding is something totally different, not leaving the house at all etc. I described ideas for more flexible ways of safe working- such as a reduced timetable, working with small group of children to lessen number on contacts, doing admin tasks including tasks of other staff to lighten their workload, setting online work for pupils who are self-isolating etc etc.
It appears that for my Head it’s all or nothing- if you’re aren’t “on the shielding list” it’s business as usual.
I’ve replied to say I’ll see what I can find out tomorrow, but what does she think the GP surgery receptionist is going to be able to tell me in the morning? Even if I could get in touch with the consultant, what would she say- “no, you aren’t shielding but I’ve already advised that you shouldn’t be public facing”, and my Head hears “not on the shielding list” and that’s that.

@LittleRa @Sho2207 could you both sit down and write how each work place are not following the current guidelines point by point so it's in black and white, and a maybe also send it to HR
If not if you get paid sick, could you ask your gp to sign you off sick ( no the best solution I get that)

Please just be very strict with masks and washing hands. I'm a nurse and 18+2, have been patient facing the whole way through, I've had very close contact with atleast 5 covid positive people whose tests had not come back yet. I've been absolutely fine. It's hard to socially distance, I can't stay two metres from patients and I understand you can't stay two metres from children at all times. I am leaving at 28 weeks, I've been told that staying on is now an option and it's up to me, but that takes all accountability away from the employer and I'm not prepared to be a guinea pig!

@boymum88
So my manager is trying to open up a business case with HR to send over to the head of HR to see if they will let me be suspended on full pay for my remaining 5 weeks (by the time it's all handed over it will probably be 3-4 weeks). They've said I've got quite a good case on my hands due to having complications with this pregnancy anyway so I'm praying it's good news for me. Until then my manager has spoken about sending me to a different store where I'll just be kept behind the tills... to me that makes no difference because I'll still be in contact with people by taking money, cards and vouchers.. 🤷🏻‍♀️🙄

LittleRa It's a difficult situation. I'm due to go back tomprinary in January and whilst not full class teaching the plan was to teach groups out of class. Now in tier 4 and new strain I feel really worried about this too. My head however has been amazing and I have had a risk assessment all the way through.
With regards to the clinically extremely vulnerable and shielding I read that once past 28weeks should follow guidance for clinically extremely vulnerable for your tier. So that may be where they are coming from? I'm going to try and ring midwife/GP tomorrow and see what advice is with new variant, tier 4 and post 28 weeks.
The RCOG also says for after 28 weeks:
When you take your children to school/nursery/external childcare, you should ensure you practicesocial distancing– stay two metres away from teachers/carers and other parents and do not go inside the building. If this is difficult, then consider staggering your child’s drop off and pick up times.
How is it safe to work there as teacher if not safe for a pregnant woman to even enter building as a parent after 28 weeks?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-advice-for-pregnant-employees/coronavirus-covid-19-advice-for-pregnant-employees

I never write on anything but I felt that I should so that you know you’re not the only person facing the same issue with their school. I have a had a battle with my school right from the start of telling them about my pregnancy and they questioned my fitness to work note and didn’t implement most of what it suggested. I excepted a very paired back compromise. I am also in the position that I don’t want to be a bother because I may want to go back part time and employers don’t legally have to approve flexible working requests. I also feel exactly the same in that I almost need to just put up with it until I go on maternity leave at Feb half term, so that I have a better chance of my part time working request being accepted. I work in private school so I don’t feel that I have the protection of unions or local authorities and there have been very few pregnant women or women with very young at the school for many many years, so they aren’t used to dealing with it or accommodating it. It’s very stressful as everyone around you is telling you to put yourself first and insist on working from home etc but it’s not that easy when you don’t have a supportive employer, the rules are advice and not law and you also want to go back later at a reduced capacity. There’s no easy answer. As I’m now in tier 4 and a secondary school teacher I was hoping that pregnant teachers in this tier would be formally (legally) removed from face to face teaching but I doubt that’s not going to happen. A stress is pregnant women could do without on top of everything else!!

DfE guidance has been updated
Staff who are pregnant
Pregnant women are considered ‘clinically vulnerable’ or in some cases ‘clinically extremely vulnerable’ to coronavirus (COVID-19) and therefore require special consideration as set out in the guidance for pregnant employees.

Employers should carry out a risk assessment to follow the Management of Health and Safety at Work Regulations 1999 (MHSW). More information is available on workplace risk assessment for vulnerable people vulnerable people working in other industries. Information contained in the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, Royal College of Midwives guidance on coronavirus (COVID-19) in pregnancy should be used as the basis for a risk assessment.

Pregnant women of any gestation should not be required to continue working if this is not supported by the risk assessment.

Women who are 28 weeks pregnant and beyond, or are pregnant and have an underlying health condition that puts them at a greater risk of severe illness from COVID-19 at any gestation, should take a more precautionary approach. Employers should ensure pregnant women are able to adhere to any active national guidance on social distancing and/or advice for pregnant women considered to be clinically extremely vulnerable (this group may previously have been advised to shield).

www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-schools-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak/guidance-for-full-opening-schools

So the risk assessment has to explicitly say it’s safe for a pregnant member of staff to continue working. Any gestation!! With greater precautions for post-28 weeks.

LittleRa

Really feel for you and others having to weigh up health risks vs keeping employer sweet for future part time requests. The thing that concerns me though is that if your headteacher is already behaving unreasonably and giving disproportionate weighting to HR’s ‘advice’ over the advice of your consultant, they’re willing to ignore the risks to your health in order to suit their objectives anyway. Is that the kind of headteacher who would also try to find an excuse not to grant you part time working? Maybe it’s better to continue to be firm and show her/him that you’re not a pushover? I’m not saying you are a pushover at all, far from it, I think your headteacher is an arse!!

I 100% agree with Glittery Nails re government’s direction about risk assessments:

Pregnant women of any gestation should not be required to continue working if this is not supported by the risk assessment.

The language is very clear and, I think, deliberately to the point. If the risk assessment cannot evidence that it is safe for you to work, you must not work. This won’t be an accident, it will have been drafted by policy officials with input from government lawyers and probably also medical advisors to the govt. They don’t want employers to be quibbling about this or that- it simply states that it’s up to employers to prove it’s safe for you to work! Which means a well evidenced risk assessment which gives sufficient weighting to relevant issues. Not a risk assessment drafted by the headteacher and HR to ensure continuity of teaching!! That’s a different risk assessment entirely and is not your problem!

I think it would be totally reasonable for you to point the headteacher to this government direction and explain that:

• the risk assessment must evidence that it is safe for me to work. If not, I should not be asked to work.
• this applies to all professions (if teachers were an exception it would say so) and all gestations of pregnancies
• as headteacher will be aware, legal duty to undertake risk assessment is an ongoing one. As new risks and evidence emerge, it must be updated. There are new risks- now in tier 4, with higher number of cases and a new, more transmissible strain circulating. You therefore want to see a copy of updated risk assessment, please.
• Covid is a novel coronavirus and pregnancy is a complex medical condition. A properly informed risk assessment will give sufficient weighting to the advice of your medical consultant, who has the in-depth knowledge of your medical condition and the latest understanding of the virus. So far, the risk assessment does not appear to have given sufficient weighting to the key piece of evidence from your consultant that it is not safe for you to work!

• your headteacher asked you whether or not you’ve been asked to shield. I think that part of government guidance is now redundant and has been superseded by the above direction that pregnant women must not work unless it can be evidenced that it is safe.

Personally, I wouldn’t offer to work in smaller groups etc etc unless my consultant advised this was safe. Leave it to the headteacher to propose what s/he thinks is safe and then send it to your consultant for their view.

Good luck!