"If you have a private scan the NHS shouldn't treat you"

[AintOverUntilTheCatLadySings]

Disclaimer: I love the NHS and don't mind at all if appointments are running late. It's free healthcare and they do a wonderful job. Anyway…

I'm currently 34 weeks pregnant. When I went for my scan at 20 weeks the appointment was running 90 minutes late. When I went in the sonographer told me that she only had 20 minutes so had to scan me quickly because she wanted to leave at 5.

I've had 4 mcs so this played on my mind for a bit - especially as I had a suspicion that something was wrong.

Had a Midwife appointment at 28 weeks who said that they couldn't rescan me. I said I would probably book a private scan for piece of mind and she said fine, do it.

I had a private scan at about 30 weeks- which actually found an issue (the issue I'd been worried about). Sonographer wrote me a report to give to my midwife.

This was an issue that possibly could have been picked up at 20week scan but could/should have been picked up by midwife at routine checks.

Told midwife at 31 week appointment and she told me that in her opinion, if an issue is picked up at a private scan then the NHS shouldn't treat you and she wasn't going to refer me.

I asked her to phone her supervisor so she relented and booked me in to see a specialist. They came to the same conclusion as the private scan and I now need to have a c section at 38 weeks because it's considered too risky for me to go passed that.

Has anyone else encountered this policy? Or do you think she had a point? I could understand if I'd gone for one of those Nuffield Health wellbeing tests or something, or an ancestry DNA test to find genetic markers. But this was a scan which actually did find an issue and she was prepared to ignore it to make a point.

Not to drip feed but the reason I pushed it was because a friend was similarly ignored by this hospital trust, things weren't picked up on scans, and her baby died shortly before birth.

I would put In a compliant about both staff members, firstly I feel the lady's pain everyone wants to go home on time but sadly that is not the case when u work in healthcare ( I work in theatres and wouldnt / can't just go home mid operation) as a healthcare provider u are there to do ur best for every patient u see.
If this is something that should have been picked up, and wasn't because she rushed then that has put ur health at risk. What would have happened if u had not had a private scan? What could the outcome have been ?
2nd the midwife sounds rude and in my option is wrong. Plenty of people have private tests done for many things not just pregnancy scans and are then referred back to the nhs. A private scan raised a issue that by the sounds of it needs treatment, shouldn't matter where the information is found it's just important that it was flag up and they can get you the care that you need.

That is ridiculous and you should definitely put in a complaint. I had a midwife who, at my 36 week scan wouldn't believe that my baby was breech, even though I told her I'd had a private scan a few days before and he had 100% been breech, and all the movements felt exactly the same so I knew he hadn't moved. She categorically refused to send me for a scan. I then had to fork out another £80 as I was so paranoid to get it checked - and then bypassed the midwife and called the hospital direct who took me straight in for an NHS scan and booked me in for a c-section. Had I not had a private scan I would've most likely ended up going into labour and having an unknown (9lb!!) breech attempted vaginal delivery. I shiver to think what would've happened if I had never had that private scan - the best £80 I have ever spent.

Agree 100% with the previous poster. It is irrelevant if the issue had been found by a private doctor, esp if it wasn't picked up by the NHS due to their negligence and rushing. Plenty of people have private testing done and then see their GP.

I had genetic testing done privately as recommended by my GP but they'd have still offered me support if it was positive (thankfully all negative). Does this mean if you have IVF privately you shouldn't be able to use the NHS maternity to have your baby. What a load of rubbish!

I would definitely put in a complaint. Your midwife should not let her personal views on private scans ever cause possible problems for you or your baby. This could of led to awful repercussions if she just left it, thank goodness the consultant has listened to you. They both sound unprofessional so let's hope they will get a telling off so no other poor lady goes through the same thing! Well done for relying on your mummy instinct and booking a private scan OP, mother's intuition is never wrong! Good luck with rest of pregnancy xx

The NHS is not free healthcare. We all pay for it.

And yes, you should complain that a HCP was negligent and proudly failed to fulfil her duty of care to you.

Why would you cover up for negligence and failings that could kill someone, just because it occurred in the NHS?

I never encountered any issues like that.

I'm not sure if my experience was slightly different, because I lived in a different trust area to the hospital I was having my baby at, but I was able to self refer myself for issues to the hospital maternity day unit.

I was regularly in there with my bloody pressure with my second DS!

The nhs can’t use a private scan to refer you to a consultant

The process is... referral by GP. Gets scan.
And then referred to specialist if necessary.

It needs to be an nhs scan.

So In Your scenario, it would have been appropriate to have seen a gp with your private scan, and then got referred for an nhs scan.

They clearly weren't doing a "wonderful job" either. Step away from the bloody ideology.

What a silly thing to say when you're describing such negligence.

Complain. What she believes has nothing at all to do with it.

I would complain. Her opinion on private scans should not decide whether you get referred or not - it should be based on medical need. In many cases, people have to go private because the NHS is so overloaded or the service is poor. Definitely complain.

Ridiculous, I would be complaining about both your NHS scan and the midwife.

@Hellotheresweet GPs have virtually no role in pregnancy care. The midwife performs that gatekeeper role.

This definitely isn't NHS policy at all! Your midwife sound awful, I don't understand the logic that the NHS "shouldn't" treat you if you have a private scan.
People have private testing for all sorts to bypass NHS waiting lists for diagnostics.

I can understand the NHS needing to do their own scan before referring you to a consultant but I would a have thought a report from a private scan would be enough to start the process of looking into it through the NHS.

Complain. You can definitely get an NHS referral from a private scan.

I had a private scan, picked up an issue - consultant worked privately and in the NHS and I was seen by him on the NHS two days later.

Totally wrong.

Slightly different scenario but it work in NHS mental health. We get a lot of people referred for ADHD services who have had assessments and diagnosis privately but want NHS follow up. We don’t turn a hair as it’s totally legit.

No. My daughter has severe migraines and other pain resulting in her missing a month of school, and the wait for a consultation was six months. I booked a private MRI and consultation. Luckiky there were no abnormalities but the private doc said to keep the NHS appointment and bring the scan to it. There was no issue with the NHS doc looking at the scan and reading the private docs notes. But as there were still issues and so many months between he ordered another one anyway.
The midwife should have been happy that you took away the burden from the NHS to schedule a sonogram, not berated you for it.
I don't think the NHS are heroes - they are doing their job. I come a family of doctors. But sometimes hospital staff (like any other profession) can get up their own backsides.
My own pregnancy journey was great - I can't really fault the care and it was the GP nurse that picked up i might have GD (I actually had Type 1 brought on by the pregnancy). Appointments always ran late - sometimes by more than an hour. But they never rushed me or did not perform their duties without the utmost care. In fact I was offered an early scan at my first appointment as they had an open slot.
Complain as your case seems bordering on negligence.

First of all, the monographer was really unprofessional. She basically said she'd do a rush job to go home on time- and potentially missed something. I would complain about that. Everybody wants to leave dead on time, but unfortunately sometimes things overrun. If her clinic is regularly overrunning, then she needs to bring it up with management, not rush the final scan to get out on time.

Plenty of people have diagnostics privately and then are referred to the NHS for treatment. It actually saves the NHS money and time with diagnostics etc, so I don't know what the issue is.

Right.

So you failed to provide adequate care and pick up on a problem with my pregnancy?

Now that it’s been identified you don’t want to treat me?

All I can picture is people in A&E with super obvious issues (broken limbs, large nail through hand...etc) whilst doctors run around pretending not to be able to see it.

Dr: What seems to be the issue?
Patient: I erm...have a nail through my hand.
Dr: I mean I can’t see it...which means we don’t have to treat it.

I would hope the average midwife wouldn't respond like that. It's ridiculous. Also, it's terrible that your sonographer rushed your appointment but I guess it might not be her fault, could be management issues or she had children to pick up or something, but still not good.

Reading stuff like this also makes me wonder if the very cautious and attentive pregnancy care I’ve received is actually a result of my husband being a Dr at the hospital rather than simply our stellar NHS at work

DH has always been quite heavily involved in my pregnancy care. I feel very sad if that is the case. Women and babies deserve so much better.

@Pumpertrumper

Reading stuff like this also makes me wonder if the very cautious and attentive pregnancy care I’ve received is actually a result of my husband being a Dr at the hospital rather than simply our stellar NHS at work

DH has always been quite heavily involved in my pregnancy care. I feel very sad if that is the case. Women and babies deserve so much better.

NHS maternity care isn't very good on the whole so yes you're very luckily probably benefitting. Not a slight, I'm really glad you are.

Please complain and remember the NHS isn't free, we pay for it collectively and we shouldn't praise a service which can be very mediocre in parts. I wish more people would complain and try to improve services - including myself. I feel so guilty that because I didn't complain post birth about my treatment, people after me have probably experienced the very same.

The constant messaging from the media that the NHS is incredible and above complaint is just wrong.

There are unfortunately cases where people unnecessarily undergo private tests for rare conditions that have a high false positive rate. That means the vast majority of people who test positive will not in fact have the condition. Follow ups by the NHS then put a strain on the system.

That said, in your case it seems completely wrong to refuse a referral for a specialist to at least look at the evidence and make a decision on next steps based on clinical expertise in that area.

Sorry that you had that experience, not all HCPs think like that. I'm a midwife and have referred women of mine for things found on private scans. I hope everything is okay.

Please make a complaint, there are a handful of different issues in what you describe.

NHS care might be free at the point of use but we all pay for it. They’re not doing you a favour. Especially when they’re rushing diagnostic scans and overlooking things. Not okay at all. They’re not all angels, don’t feel bad about being honest about how shit parts of your experience have been.

Very best of luck with the rest of your pregnancy and safe arrival of your precious baby!

Thank you all. To be clear - I don't think the first sonographer did anything wrong other than tell me that she was going to be quick because she wanted to go home on time. That's unprofessional whether you work for the NHS or McDonald's.

OBVIOUSLY I realise that the NHS isn't completely free - you know what I meant. Was mentally comparing it to all the expensive vets visits I've had to make for our cats recently. With the NHS I've never had to think twice about whether or not I should go in with worries about reduced movements on a cost vs 'am I being stupid' basis. And I'm well aware that the NHS isn't staffed by wingless angels - but I've had so many people go above and beyond for me that I stand by my original statement.

I'm not going to complain about the midwife just yet but I probably will once I've had my last check with her. Thank you for all your input / advice- I wouldn't have actually thought about complaining before to be honest.