"Private baby scans show 'incredibly poor practice'"

[CoalCraft]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54527595

I've never personally been to a private scan so am not directly affected, but thought I would link for active who hasn't seen and might want to know.

For me it suggests that private scans are fine if you've already had an NHS scan and just want to see baby again, maybe take sometime with you to see, but should not be used for reassurance in place of seeing your midwife if you think something might be wrong. Very sad to see the chat group discussing observed foetal hydrops that they did not tell the parents about.

I can barely see anything wrong in that article. Yes it was terrible for the woman who’s baby they couldn’t see but she was still recommended to seek NHS assistance.

To me it’s just more control, big brother telling you that you don’t have a choice to think for yourself.

Why does this surprise anyone?
Most (not all) are franchises set up to take keepsake photos of a tiny embryo. Few have any medical or midwifery training.
There is no need to be qualified. There is no professional registration. Many have done some sort of diploma but many haven’t.

Whilst there is no independently confirmed peer-reviewed published evidence which has confirmed a cause-effect relationship between in utero exposure to clinical ultrasound and development of ASDs,, ultrasound has thermal and mechanical effects, its use should be restricted to medical indications, by trained professionals, for as short a period and at as low an intensity as possible.

Frequent scans are not a good idea unless clinically indicated. In which case, go to a proper unit.

In defense of these scan - My soon to be MMC (at the time) was picked up at an 8 week reassurance scan. I would have been even more devastated to find out at the 12 week scan. They explained clearly that things didn't look right and to speak to a GP immediately. Without that scan, I wouldn't have been referred to EPU and had everything dealt with.

I'm having a reassurance scan at one of these places next week again knowing it's no replacement for an NHS scan, however, if I've had a MMC again I can be sorted long before I'd need to have a 12 week scan.

I honestly feel I could pick apart that article from the BBC but one bit that sticks out is the part about accepting women for scans that are bleeding or on pain rather than referring them to the NHS.

From experience at the start of my pregnancy I had bleeding and a bit of cramp and when I called the midwife unit, they weren’t interested in seeing me unless I was soaking through several pads an hour and I was doubled over in pain.

I booked a private scan and luckily everything was okay, the heart was beating away.

Twisted reporting that doesn’t mention it from the other side. How about the BBC run a report about how shocking pregnancy care has been during Covid and to be fair even before that. My mother just can’t believe how these days we are just left to get on with it.

It's scary that this sort of thing is happening, but it's because of NHS restrictions that so many people are using them this year in order to keep partners involved who would otherwise miss out on a key part of the pregnancy journey.

I've used them and have had a good experience personally, and it was worth it to me.

In times without a pandemic would I use them? Probably not.

NHS early pregnancy care is shocking and it’s no wonder women look to private providers for reassurance, especially if they have a history of MC. My consultant has told me that there is research to suggest that TLC of women in early pregnancy, to include scanning where there is spotting or bleeding, can actually reduce the incidence of MC due to lower maternal stress.

My midwife warned me back in May not to get a scan with Window to the Womb citing poor patient care - maybe she'd already heard that this case was in the pipeline. The story about the lady whose baby had anencephaly is horrific - it sounds like the sonographer knew but wasn't prepared to tell her. To give her a confetti cannon and teddy bear knowing that the pregnancy is not viable, awful. Fair enough if they're not qualified to make those diagnoses but they should be clearer about it when they are selling their services.

@Fruitloops34

I can barely see anything wrong in that article. Yes it was terrible for the woman who’s baby they couldn’t see but she was still recommended to seek NHS assistance.

To me it’s just more control, big brother telling you that you don’t have a choice to think for yourself.

So you see nothing wrong about a sonographer noticing your baby has an abnormality meaning it won’t survive, and not telling you? Sending you on your way thinking your baby is fine and instead talking about it with your colleagues on WhatsApp? Really? You think there is nothing wrong with that?

The huge increase this clinics is a direct response to the low quality care provided by the NHS. Imo it is like all food banks popping up left right and centre, they are a symptom of systematic failings.

It is no surprise this year private scan clinics have seen a surge of popularity, earlier this year some dads couldn't see their baby until it came home from hospital!
I couldn't imagine anything worse than finding out something is wrong with the baby at 12 or 20 weeks alone and without your partner.

I never knew there were no qualifications needs to be a sonographer - that's worrying. I imagine most people don't know that. You'd expect even with private scans for them to be able to notice potential issues especially if they market them as "reassurance scans".

SOME private scans provide poor practise would be a better title

There are many you can go to where the people are properly qualified to diagnose and help you.

I had a 3 with my private IVF clinic (1 standard, 2 for bleeding). All done with a consultant who is more than qualified to have diagnosed and tell me if there had been a problem.

There should be regulations and standards set though. Absolutely.

I had a private scan with my last pregnancy that ended in a MMC and honestly it was shocking. The difference in private v NHS compassion was incredible. I'd never ever have another one private again. Probably just a bad experience but it's put me off now. Considering I was paying £70 she told me my baby had died like she was ordering a take away.

I think it slightly depends on what the scan is for. The advice should always be discuss things with your MW and if there were any probs they should pass any info to the nhs dept the parent is with.

@Turtleturtle81 You are only reading one side of it. The sonographer advised the woman to go to the NHS and at the end of the day probably didn’t feel comfortable telling a woman that she wasn’t selling her anything to confirm pregnancy.

[quote Fruitloops34]@Turtleturtle81 You are only reading one side of it. The sonographer advised the woman to go to the NHS and at the end of the day probably didn’t feel comfortable telling a woman that she wasn’t selling her anything to confirm pregnancy.[/quote]
My reading comprehension is absolutely fine, thanks.

The WhatsApp incident was a separate case to the woman who had the gender reveal.

I've had 2 MMCs picked up at private scans when the NHS refused to give me an early scan. I'd not expect diagnosis of specific conditions at a private scan though and even with the MMC, they just said they didn't see a heartbeat and referred me to the NHS the next day to confirm. So, I did find it really useful just to be able to see if there was a heartbeat or not - it would have been awful to wait till the 12 week scan knowing that something wasn't quite right and then find out.

The gender reveal of the baby with anencephaly is so sad.

I think it's good to highlight that private scans are not tools for clinical diagnosis. They can prompt a referral to the NHS but they aren't a substitute.

@Fruitloops34 it seems fairly clear that the sonographer knew there was a major problem (it wasn't just that they 'couldnt see' something like anencephaly) but didn't fancy telling the mother herself. They told the poor woman to go to for an NHS scan but clearly didn't convey how serious it was - in fact sold her a confetti cannon and teddy bear. That's awful, there's no 'other side'.

[quote 3ormorecharacters]@Fruitloops34 it seems fairly clear that the sonographer knew there was a major problem (it wasn't just that they 'couldnt see' something like anencephaly) but didn't fancy telling the mother herself. They told the poor woman to go to for an NHS scan but clearly didn't convey how serious it was - in fact sold her a confetti cannon and teddy bear. That's awful, there's no 'other side'.[/quote]
Exactly - and if you’re a sonographer that feels awkward telling someone there is something wrong with their baby - then you are in the wrong job.

There's obviously something sick about seeing the anencephaly and selling the poor women gender reveal merchandise, but also the case of the woman with the ectopic pregnancy is criminal - women can die from that and they told her it was a normal pregnancy. In the video they mentioned a lawsuit and no wonder - if someone saw a major concern in a scan and told me things were find I'd sue them too.

I had a private scan which showed a problem and I was referred into hospital that day.

I’m surprised that one of the professionals in the article said she found a problem and felt guilty for not being able to tell the woman, surely that’s unethical practice.

Look at some of you jumping on the bandwagon. There is always another side.

@Fruitloops34

Look at some of you jumping on the bandwagon. There is always another side.

Do you know what jumping on a bandwagon means?

@Fruitloops34 There really isn't sometimes. The 'other side' of this is that the sonographer didn't feel comfortable telling a woman that her baby had a major developmental problem. Fair enough, I would not want to have that conversation either - but if that's your job then you kind of have to do it. Or at least tell her in a serious and urgent enough tone to get an NHS scan that she will get the idea, and not sell her a glitter cannon.

We had a private scan at 18 weeks, and did so so that my husband could attend, as he couldn't be at the 20 week.

Sonography was lovely, and reassured us that all was well. We left delighted, clutching a fab image, flying high at the discovery that we were having a girl.

The 20 week scan at hospital two weeks later detected a series of huge anomalies with our baby's heart, one of which was a HUGE hole in the centre of her heart. Specialist fetal Cardiologists at Evelina diagnosed that the series of issues were not compatible with life, and lead to a devastating TFMR the following week.

Looking back, you can clearly see the hole - it's enormous - on the 18 week image. It was my first pregnancy and stupidly, I had no idea what to look for. The sonographer spent a long time on the heart, making sure she had a clear image (and even recorded a heartbeat that we had put inside a bear for my youngest DSD), and didn't mention any unusual issues.

I had signed a disclaimer saying that if any abnormalities were noted they would suggest a referral to your midwife/GP/local trust. We even chatted to her about what level of issues could be detected by private scans, and she confidently said that they were trained to detect the same issues as hospital sonographers and frequently recommended referrals. Whilst impressed, we didn't pay much attention to the need for this, as we'd been assured that all was fine, and we didn't need to. Sounds daft, but in that moment, that's where we were.

Whilst a referral two weeks earlier wouldn't have made the slightest difference to the heartbreaking outcome, looking back, that two weeks of flying high, buying prams and pink babygrows, feeling safe in the knowledge that everything was FINE, made the eventual shock much harder to take.

It's not the sonographers fault. It's nobody's fault. But i do think that private scans should be sold as what they are - a commercial entity allowing you to collect a series of scan images. No more, no less. They may help manage maternal anxiety for a pregnancy that's progressing well, but if we choose to TTC again, I personally wouldn't be prepared to risk putting my trust in a non-medical scan for any level of reassurance. The fall is too painful.