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Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

does anyone know if the nspcc or social services are doing about the child cruelty on bring up baby

24 replies

robinredbreast · 05/10/2007 16:34

as if there not going to do anything ...ill bloody well cancel my subscription

OP posts:
lisad123 · 05/10/2007 16:37

would ove to know this too. However, m y understanding is that the filming has finished and so dont know if this is still going on. Also i feel really sorry for the parents who chose CV as their mentor, if they end up with SS knocking on their door.
I think SS should be knocking on CV door only

Piggy · 05/10/2007 16:38

"i feel really sorry for the parents who chose CV as their mentor"

Why on earth would you feel sorry for parents who agreed to subject their new born child to a tv experiment?

fingerwoman · 05/10/2007 16:42

i agree with piggy. the parents let it happen. how anyone could sit by and let a newborn go through that is beyond me- just to be on tv???

lisad123 · 05/10/2007 16:44

i remember how hard it was being a first time parent (funny how they used first timers) and how i would have done jumped at the idea of having an expert in to help and advice. Would never have choosen CV though

QuootieSpookypie · 05/10/2007 16:46

if anyone contacted nspcc they usually mail back, they did after the child carers programme a few months back.

mumzyof2 · 05/10/2007 18:34

I agree, how anybody can leave there newborn baby / twins, in the back garden, in the freeing cold, for 3 and a half hours is beyond me. It nearly made me cry. I was getting angry at the womens partners for not standing up to that woman. I know they agreed to do it, but the mother of twins was crying because she didnt want to leave them out there, Id have thrown that bloody woman out of my house in seconds, or left her in my back garden for 4 hours and see how she liked it!

ScaremyVile · 05/10/2007 18:39

Oh honestly - this is getting ridiculous now.

daisyandbabybootoo · 05/10/2007 18:40

FYI from one of the many other BUB threads

By Poohbah on Fri 05-Oct-07 17:54:04
RESPONSE FROM NSPCC:

Thank you for your email regarding Channel four?s Bringing up Baby series. The NSPCC will decide how to respond after viewing all four episodes of the show. In the mean time we would like to thank you for bringing the matter to our attention. The protection of children should be a prime consideration for the authorities responsible for regulating the content of the media, particularly the broadcast media who have the greatest breadth of audience. The NSPCC tries to maintain an ongoing and constructive relationship with the media outlets and the watchdogs that monitor them, and our Policy Advisors are keeping this area under review.

It is very important that the added weight of viewers' opinions reaches these the organisations responsible for regulating the media, so it is important that you contacted Ofcom.

With regard to methods of bringing up children, the NSPCC believe that a harsh parenting approach and an over-reliance on strict routines are not in the best interests of children. The NSPCC is a supporter of positive parenting techniques. We produce a range of parenting support materials in the form of leaflets and booklets - please see:- www.nspcc.org.uk/helpandadvice/publications/leaflets/parentingleaflets_wda38357.html

Thank you once again for contacting us.

daisyandbabybootoo · 05/10/2007 18:43

And also from one of the othr threads:

By JustineMumsnet on Wed 03-Oct-07 09:11:17 (from MNHQ)
Hi all,
We do understand that feelings are running high with regard to this programme, but can we remind you that whilst there is no problem with disussing/ objection to a particular parenting method, personal attacks and potential libels break our abuse policy. (You know the form).

Thanks,
MNHQ

I think referring to the methods as child cruelty could potentially be seen as libelous.

gorgeousmum · 05/10/2007 19:19

Hi
I had a long conversation with the NSPCC two days ago. I am a social worker so know child protection law / system and where those methods being used by parents being assessed by social services it would be seen at a minimum as poor / inadequate parenting and more likey as child neglect. The NSPCC I think have been a bit flumoxed with regards to how to respond to teh child protection aspects of the show (rather than the media / ethics issue). I think they are still deciding. I did point out to them that they cannot on one hand run adverts to get our money where they show a baby left alone in a cot "Miles has learnt that no-one comes whether he cries or not" and then not respond to actual cases of this on our TV. They took the point but still hadnt decided how to respond. I then decided to go straight to central government and spoke to the Children's Safeguarding Unit. They were very concerned and asked me to email them more details and said they would look into it. My main tack is that Claire Verity is a risk to children and should not be allowed to practice - if she were a childminder she would be struck off. But 'maternity nurses' appear to be unregulated. I then got onto the Nursing and Midwifery Council and they too were very concerned. By the end of the day they responded to all the complaints by condeming use of the term maternity nurse on the programme.
I think NSPCC are being a bit lame - just because this is abuse as neglect (rather than violent / sexual) it makes it no less importnat to repond and protect. I think as a society we have a problem with this so the 'system' is not working properly. Who knows, maybe some good will come?

robinredbreast · 05/10/2007 19:34

very well put g/mum
and well done for you for making a stand
far too many people willing to be bystanders when it comes to this sort of neglect
thought nspcc mantra was child cruelty must stop,full stop.

or is that just there strapline to get money outta people like me

they better take action

OP posts:
Lulumama · 05/10/2007 19:44

robinredbreast

if you stop giving money, who will that benefit? not the children and families who are give help by the NSPCC

it is not simply the children on this programme who are at risk, but many , many, many, more who you cannot see as they are not on tv.

it is not the NSPCCs job to monitor people like CV

from what i have read, she is being disredited and vilified on a daily basis.

robinredbreast · 05/10/2007 22:49

well i will find a childrens charity willing to do something and give the money to them

OP posts:
mumzyof2 · 06/10/2007 16:25

Extremely good point about the adverts, "Miles has learnt that nobody comes whether he cries or not" - its the same situation as CV leaving babies to cry in the back garden for three and a half hours - whether they cry or not, yet on one hand, we are meant to care and give our money to stop such things from happening, and on the other, that damn woman it trying to promote such a thing?! Why is she allowed to carry on?

oopsa · 06/10/2007 18:35

A worrying aspect to this is that if there are parents out there bordering on neglectful, surely seeing this approach legitimised on primetime TV would make them feel it's actually ok to leave their children unattended for 3 hours? If an expert, who's good enough to be shown on telly, tells you you can leave your child in the back garden for 3 hours whilst you're inside, then why not just nip down to the shop / pub / friends house for a couple of hours? What's the difference?
At least in the case of the filming there would have been people around keeping an eye out - but what about all the clueless parents out there who will use this as their model for parenting? Scary.

Pheebe · 06/10/2007 19:13

I think its very telling that its the women with no children of their own and men who seem to advocate the harshest child rearing techniques.
IMHO babies need to be eased into a routine that supports and nutures the whole family not physically and emotionally rejected and rushed into a routine that turns daily life into a battle. Who the hell wants to live like that???
I also think that people who are going to neglect their kids will do so without any justification from a so called professional and anyone with any parental feeling towards their kids would never allow them to be neglected in such a way.

mumzyof2 · 06/10/2007 20:16

I also cant understand when she says that babies dont need to be picked up...well if the mother wants to pick the baby up, doesnt that mean its insticnt? Nature? But yet she seems to know better than nature, wow, shes a real wonder woman isnt she?
Surely it should be illegal to leave a baby alone for three hours in a garden?! Tis isnt the 50's where they left their babies on their front doorsteps and the air was a bit cleaner, babies just arnt always safe to be left alone anymore, not that i would want to whether they were safe or not. Its so dangerous, its ridiculous to think that that woman teaches this stuff!

gorgeousmum · 07/10/2007 20:43

Just picking up the NSPCC thread again - I wrote to them tonight...

Dear Sir / Madam

I spoke at length to both your duty manager and your public relations person last Wednesday regarding child protection concerns raised from the Channel 4 programme Brining Up Baby. I was quite surprised that, despite this being the second week of showing this programme (which has caused serious public concerns about child neglect and safety) the people I spoke to from your organisation seemed woefully un-informed both about the programme and also what could be done to protect babies from Claire Verity, the so called Maternity Nurse. I was told that ?there is nothing you can do? and that you would be issuing a press statement at the start of this coming week. I have since seen an email that you sent to someone else saying that you will not be commenting until the series is finished.

I have been a supporter and donor to you and Childline for many years. I am deeply troubled by your lack of swift action on many levels. How on earth can you run TV adverts that show a baby left alone in a cot saying ?Miles has learnt that no one comes whether he cries or not? and when there are real instances of this happening to real babies on TV (and potentially other babies through the airing of such methods) that you are so slow to make any definitive media statements to explain the serious developmental effects of emotional abuse nor take any actions to protect actual children?

Claire Verity has referred to day old infants as manipulative and called them ?it?. She has made parents leave them in a pram for 3 hour stretches in the garden regardless of any distress shown. She has taught them not cuddle the newborns in between feeds, not give any eye contact during feeds and put them in their cot, alone in a room (with the door shut) between 7pm to 7am, ignoring all the babies cries. She teaches them to only cuddle the babies for 10 minutes a day. My instinct tells me this is wrong. My professional background (social work) and much research tells me it is neglect, a form of child abuse under the Children Act 1989, that may well cause significant harm to the child?s development.

What these babies are being subjected to (and the fact that this method was being normalised by being shown on TV as a valid way to raise a baby)is now well known to cause damage to brain development (read ?Why Love Matters? by Sue Gerhardt for a good summary of latest brain development research). The consequence of this is not visible within 3 months (the length of Channel 4's 'experiment') but the impact can be profound - including severe depression, anxiety and personality disorders, problems with attachment and relationships and other serious mental ill health. This is well known by anyone in the childcare field who is competent and up to date (unlike it would seem, Channel 4?s medical advisors). I would have hoped that the NSPCC would have jumped at the chance to challenge this silent form of child neglect that has been provided by this programme. Instead, the only experts that seem to be given airtime are the FSID reps who make no point at all about emotional abuse and neglect. In addition to the PR / public education / media ethics being raised by this programme, I do think there are also child protection referrals with regards to the two families shown on the programme (I understand full well the vulnerability of new parenthood and my concern is more about Claire Verity exploiting these parents by getting them to go against their instinct in the quest to ?get their life back?). By the end of programme two, one set of parents was clearly referring to their 2 week old infant as manipulative and attention seeking, as if the baby was ?bad? for having needs and expressing them by crying. Any parent insisting on using these methods who were being assessed by social services would be failing. Any childminder using these methods would be struck off by Ofsted. Why is it not a child protection issue simply because it is on TV? If we were seeing televised paedophilia, I suspect that the child protection / safeguarding wheels would have started turning very quickly. Why is this form of abuse being treated differently? It is not given any different status under the Children Act ? emotional abuse is a clear category under law. I was astounded when your child protection helpline said to me that ?the NSPCC cannot act unless a member of the family is making a referral?. That is nonsense. I, and others on the various parenting forums, would like to see this taken up as a child protection case.

I am so frustrated that I have not heard members of the NSPCC on the media on such programmes as Five Live and BBC breakfast ? I don?t know if you have heard these interviews, but they are simply giving more airtime to Claire Verity and her methods - and turning this debate into a ?routine? v ?no routine? issue ? it is not about routine. It is about the serious neuro developmental damage done by her advocating a ?no touch / no responsiveness? approach to parenting that forces a newborn to be emotionally independent of its parents from day one in order to prove ?who is boss?. This is abuse. I am a new mum and all my mum friends are talking about this programme ? I am not exaggerating to say that every single one I have spoken to (and it is running into the 30?s) are deeply upset and distressed by it. I am now doubly distressed by the fact that the national organisation that should be speaking up for the child and against child cruelty is being so silent and seemingly ineffectual.

You may be interested to know that your name is coming up on mumsnet ? an online network of thousands of mum?s ? and it is not in a good light, for the reasons I have outlined above. Please act now - both for the sake of children and to restore your credibility in the eyes of your supporters.

I look forward to your reply.

FairyMum · 07/10/2007 20:50

great letter! I am also very disappointed by the NSPCC. Seems a bunch of wimps. I have donated money in the past to them as I thought they were supposed to stand up for children. Obviously not. Like previous poster I am donating my money to braver organisations from now on.

lilybee · 07/10/2007 21:03

Well done Gorgeousmum and I support your letter all the way. I am shocked by the NSPCC 'lack of response

barbamama · 07/10/2007 21:05

didn't they issue a statement saying they would respond once all 4 programs had aired?

policywonk · 07/10/2007 21:09

oooh, you write a good letter gorgeousmum

CrookshanksinJimmyChoos · 07/10/2007 21:10

I am in tears reading this....to leave a baby crying goes against all our parental instincts and cannot believe that people like CV appear to advocate this.

For 9 months the baby is part of the mum, hearing all the reassuring sounds of the mums body - heartbeat, mums voice etc and then suddenly its not there any more - thats a massive adjustment and a baby needs all the cuddles and emotional nourishment to see them through this adjustment. I really really hope the NSPCC take some action!

gorgeousmum · 09/10/2007 15:09

Just to let you know that I posted a copy of my email to the NSPCC on teh Channel 4 Family forum. After 12 hours, it has been removed. Unbelivable!

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