Another thread about alcohol

[isitreallyjustmyfriends]

I'm confused. I know the NHS advises not to. I saw the articles the other day citing new research that it wasn't advisable. I have read Expecting Better, and the counter-research stating that the studies disussed in EB don't look at old enough children (as the effects of FAS are not seen until maybe 5 years old).

However, IRL, pretty much everyone I know drinks whilst pregnant. Not loads, usually just a glass. But I don't think they are limiting to 1-2 units a week, I think more like that is their limit per time they drink, which could depend on the week. Some people I see drinking really quite a bit, like 2 or maybe even 3 smallish glasses over the course of an evening.

I'm one of these drinkers, but I think I'm one of the much more careful ones.

I know MN is generally very anti this, and hence the majority of posters will comment that they wouldn't touch a drop etc. That's not really my point. I just wondered if anyone else has at least noticed this massive discrepancy as compared to their experiences in the real world? Is drinking in pregnancy a "middle class educated/professional/older mother London thing"? Words in " " because I know how they sound!

With all the research available, it’s just not worth the risk. Why would you risk harming your unborn child for something you don’t need? It’s a subject that gets me quite angry.

No one I know who’s pregnant/been pregnant had even a drop in pregnancy and I’m with them. If they did, they certainly kept it well hidden. If you can’t give it up, it sounds like dependency to me.

Most of my friends have had the odd small glass here and there. I know some who had much more than this as well and it raised eyebrows among everyone around them! I’m currently 21 weeks - had a few sips of champs on xmas day but that’s been about it. May have the odd small glass as my pregnancy progresses but will be keeping this to a minimum!

I had probably one glass of wine every two weeks after around 20 weeks or so. Was happy with that based on lots of reading around the subject. Amongst people I know there are a range of attitudes - some people thought I was being over cautious not having more and others who wouldn’t dream of touching a drop.

I'm interested in the link, I'm also suspicious about women under-reporting consumption. And there is a big difference between 1 unit a week and 8.
It also doesn't have any indication of actual risk, what percentage of women who drink 1-2 units a week have children with fad?
We take risks every day, some risks, like driving a car, are socially acceptable, others, like a glass of wine aren't. It seems it's not about the actual amount of risk, but the acceptability of the mothers behaviour.

It baffles me that people have become so dependent on alcohol they they cant even go 9 months without it.

I'm not teetotal by any means, but I don't drink on a weekly/nightly basis and find it shocking that people do and think it's normal?!

If you cant bear the thought of going 9 months without then you have a problem.

'It seems it's not about the actual amount of risk, but the acceptability of the mothers behaviour.'

I'm with you there, wonderstuff. Pregnant women take non-essential car journeys, use strong cleaning products, etc. all the time. I also think there's something quite revealing in the way that link presents 'one drink a day' or 'complete abstinence' as the only two options, with nothing in between.

Where do you live that all these woman are drinking while pregnant?

3 dc, never drunk in any of my pregnancies and I’ve never known a friend to drink in pregnancy either.

Being a mother starts when your pregnant, you are already looking after a baby so why would you drink alcohol? I mean you wouldn’t give a newborn a drink so why put it in to your body when pregnant, it’s just so strange.

I have to agree with others

It sounds like you’re trying to find a reason to drink and make it ok to others

It’s not worth it

I also don’t know of others that ever drank often during their pregnancy. Once or twice maybe. But that’s it

I'm going to echo the majority of pp and say that everyone I know, including myself, gave up with the exception of a small glass of champagne for a big occasion. Having said that I don't think that say a glass a week will do any harm.

I haven't drank anything this pregnancy and last time I only had one glass of champagne at my wedding.

No one I know has actually drank anything through pregnancy except one glass of fizz or wine with food on a special occasion (e.g Xmas)

I am 30s London professional if that makes a difference.

I wouldn't judge however as I think you would have to be getting pretty regularly wasted for it to have any effect on the baby but this is literally based on nothing at all just my (un)educated opinion.

I basically stopped because I didn't really fancy it . I wasn't really going to the pub after work anymore (too tired and not keen on the second hand smoke) and not on nights out because reality is if I'm not able to get hammered then I didn't see the point!

@hiimmumma I'm with you on there not being much point unless you can get pissed, lol. (All the pp who are slating me for being an alcoholic who is looking to justify myself will no doubt see this as their proof ).

@ruby2020 I'm not teetotal by any means, but I don't drink on a weekly/nightly basis and find it shocking that people do and think it's normal?! If you cant bear the thought of going 9 months without then you have a problem.

Don't blur the two things into one. I do drink every night, and probably far too much, but I never touched a drop in any of my pregnancies.

Being willing to fuck around with your own health is not the same as risking lifelong damage for another innocent life who has no choice in the matter.

I am in a similar demographic to you. I drank lightly in my pregnancies - nothing in the first trimester, 1-2 units a week subsequently. I was careful with the units. I looked at the evidence and thought it was fine.

Most of my friends were similar - plenty drank more, only one woman I know didn't drink at all.

I also looked at the evidence on listeria and, while it is really bad to get listeriosis in pregnancy, I thought the evidence on specific foods was weak. I think many European countries are more down on preprepped salad than blue or soft cheese and I kind of agreed with that on looking at the evidence. Most of the soft cheese issues seemed to be from a particular type of Mexican fresh cheese not bog standard brie.

I know lots of London mums in 30s who had small wines frequently - not daily by any stretch

I had a mulled wine and a champagne in my 8th month around new year and Christmas.

I suppose everyone knows the risks... Yes many people drank heavily in the past but we understand more now so that's not really an excuse

Quite a lot of women I work with have said that they drank occasionally while pregnant. In my friendship group its quite mixed some have a drink a couple of times a week, some have abstained totally. I decided to abstain totally as I have some health conditions that are exacerbated by drinking alcohol, though I think a moderate amount is probably okay in pregnancy.

It's a personal choice I'm 8 months pregnant with DC 3 never drank in any of my pregnancys once I found out I was actually pregnant anyway .I know of one mum who drank throughout her pregnancy and it was spoken about negatively the NHS advises against it I don't see what the problem is only going 9 months without alcohol for the sake of the baby .

@Settlersofcatan has a good point re: listeria.
I've been pretty good but slightly liberal based on my theory that I've eaten SO much raw beef / cured meat / unpasteurised cheese in my life (i.e my main 3 food groups) I MUST have been exposed pre pregnancy.

However it's always in the back of my mind so I haven't had any pink burgers, raw steak etc and only cured meat that's then been cooked and Christmas was sad without Brie.

I think through pregnancy and as parents were constantly performing risk assessments on every action and situation we find ourselves and our kids in and only we can make that judgment call.
Unfortunately I know some people are incapable for making sound judgments due to outside factors (e.g addiction) but I think having a couple of glasses of wine a week or whatever is a risk some are willing to take and others are not based on a combination of their interpretation of the facts, research and their own judgement.

So many other examples of this throughout parenting, you just have to look at the threads to see. Leaving kids in cars, cutting up blueberries, leaving kids alone on the bath, feeding, vaccines! The list is endless and one person's judgment of risk will never be the same as another's so all we can all do is evaluate all the research or information we have available and make an informed decision.

The soft/mould-ripened cheese thing is less to do with the incidence of listeria found in these foods than the favourable environment they provide for the bacteria to multiply should they be present. It's why hard cheeses are generally considered OK even if not pasteurised.

I avoided pre-grated (incl hard) cheese after listeria contamination was found in some over here.

hiimmumma, I don't think having had listeriosis once confers immunity on subsequent occasions.

@cattestreet
Ah yes this is why I'm pretty cautious anyway. No idea why I thought one exposure would give immunity! Someone probably told me once and I didn't bother to look into it any further.
And I think I did know that re:cheese, have been sticking to hard cheeses anyway but not really looking into if they are pasteurised or not!

@hiimmumma you're right to be cautious. I assumed I would be immune to toxo due to the amount of rare meat I'd eaten plus outdoor lifestyle. Wrong, I have no immunity.