Antenatal care and annual leave

[woollycat]

According to
www.gov.uk/working-when-pregnant-your-rights

"Employers must give pregnant employees time off for antenatal care and pay their normal rate for this time off. "

Does this time off come out of my annual lea e or is it on top if it? I have an appointmemt at 3pm and I need to travel to it for an hour, so realistically that's my afternoon gone. I want to understand if I need to take half a day off out of my annual leave, or the employer should just allow it.

It is on top of annual leave.

Hmm, my employer doesn't think so.

Your employer is wrong. Send them the link. And if they still refuse, send more links (the citizens advice and maternity action websites have lots of helpful info about your rights when pregnant at work).

I also advise you to join a union in case you have more issues with your employer in future.

No it's definitely not out of your annual leave. Are you in the UK? There's information on the ACAS website. And it doesn't only include midwife appointments, it also covers things like pregnancy yoga.

Definitely on top of annual leave.

Don't let them force you!

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/rights-at-work/parental-rights/rights-while-youre-pregnant-at-work/

maternityaction.org.uk/advice/time-off-for-antenatal-care/

Definitely has nothing to do with your annual leave, antenatal care should be treated completely separately and paid time off given for all appointments. Your employer is definitely wrong here!

Yes, in the UK.
Do you guys have handy links you could share?
I shared the gov website link but they are interpreting 'paid time off' as annual leave, or otherwise it's up to manager discretion. I want to see if any website specifically calls out NOT using annual leave for this.

Teachermaths kindly found them for you

Thanks for sharing! Unfortunately none of those websites specifically say about the time off not coming out of the annual leave :-/
I am with you on this, just not sure how to convince the employer.

I used to have lively discussions with SMT when I was working because they were trying to persuade colleagues to arrange midwife appointments for their PPA time. In actual fact most tried to arrange appointments out of school time completely out of goodwill, but when I found out they were being pressured to use PPA time I was a little annoyed on their behalf. Luckily the Burgandy Book is very clear!

Paid time off is not the same as annual leave.

I'd phone maternity action and see if they can update their website to say this.

Is it a large employer? I'd go to town on this!

Thank you all, I feel more confident to go back to my employer and ask them to reconsider.

They are a good employer and have been very supportive all around. I think this is just a small error in interpretation and I hope they will correct it. Will let you guys know how it goes!

Hmm good point about the lack of explicit mention of annual leave. Perhaps you should call the Acas helpline to be on the safe side. Or Maternity Action. It would certainly add weight to your argument when you go back to your employer

They don't have to reconsider, they have to follow employment law!

Contact ACAS.

Call ACAS and then go speak to your manager with the call on loudspeaker.

But remember, you're entitled to paid time off for appointments however they do tens to suggest that you should do your best to arrange appointments for outside of working hours. You can't always because they just give you an appointment time, but if you can then you should.

My hospital's hours are 9-4 on working days, so it is always within working hours.

If the rule was they have to allow you to take annual leave for appointments, that's what it would say. It doesn't say that. It says they must give you paid time off.

Antenatal appointments aren't just hospital appointments. They can include parenting classes and relaxation classes etc. If they are recommended by your midwife then they count as "part of antenatal care". Your employed needs to give you reasonable time off, but if you want to attend a class every week during working hours then that's not reasonable. So I was just putting in a wee disclaimer to say that when possible and convenenient, you should arrange them out of work hours. But it's not always possible and they can't tell you to do that or refuse reasonable time off.

@woollycat I literally work for the worst company in terms of being deducted for things. We only get sat mat pay.

But even work are paying me for all of my mat appointments in full. So if I'm away from the office for 3 hours I get paid the whole three hours.

If necessary ask for a letter from your midwife or antenatal clinic at the hospital confirming that all time off for antenatal appointments is paid. Annual leave is completely different.

We have a written maternity policy which clearly outlines what is expected of our department line managers. Could you contact your HR and see if they have a similar policy?

My conversations have been with HR. They insist that I shoukd either take time off from my annual leave allowance, or ask my manager to grant me time off on a discretionary basis. I am actually confident that my manager would happily do it, but if UK law dictates that it's an entitlement, I don't want to unnecessarily ask for favours when it's actually my right to take that time off.