Work related rant.. advise please

[Springmummy19]

hello

Sorry for the rant,...

Advise please as I feel like my pregnancy hormones are making me over react.

I live 25 miles away from work which means when I have hospital appointments (I have a lot now due to GD) even if they are only for a half an hour, I dont get to work for a few hours or I have to leave earlier. I've always always made my boss aware of all my appointments and at no point was I told by my boss to provide proof.

My boss left the business 2 weeks ago and I have randomly had an email from HR to say I need to make up all the missed time plus provide proof of my appointments. I emailed HR back stating that other than the appointments with the midwife, I don't get a letter to confirm my GD appointments or my GD related scans. Event time I attend, they tell me when my next appointment is. The only thing I have as proof is my hospital book which has the midwifes notes and the date on there. I did mention that I will ask the hospital if they are able to print something to confirm all the dates/times I attended however I wont be able to obtain this until my next combined clinic appointment which is on the 1st March. I have the letters for my midwife appointments at the doctors and I will bring them in next week as I am off from tomorrow for the week.

I was off 1st of feb all day because I had my 28 week scan at 9.40 and my GD clinic appointment at 10.10. I didn't get seen to until after 12 and then the consultant made a mistake in my emergency prescription which resulted in me having to go back to the hospital to have this corrected. I had to make 4 Uber trips to and from the hospital and by the time I got home it was after 3pm. Again the only thing I have as proof of this is the email Uber recipets and my hospital notes.

She then emailed me back saying I need to make up 5.5 ours for this day but I cannot do this during lunch as I must take a break. Well next week is my last week before I have a month off and then start mat.

Can they legally do this? I know I was off the whole day but it wasnt due to a fault my end. If they can, am I better of just saying dont pay me for the 5.5 hours? like how the hell do you expect me to make this time up if I cant miss lunch?

Also the reason why I am getting so agitated is because there is another lady in my team ( she was my boss then got demoted to my level) who wanted this week off but I think because I booked it first she got told she cant have it off. she was working from home for the past 2 weeks due to her kids not being well ( I dont have the option to WFH) and then manged to come in last thurs/fri. I was off sick thse days. it is very well known that she is on very god terms with the women from HR and I just find it off that she has come back to work, found out I am off this week and so she cant be ans then HR send me this email.

As I'm leaving in a week, I don't want to cause a hooha or make a fuss and ruin my working relationship, specially if I want to come back after mat leave but its just making me so angry

You are legally entitled to paid time off for all of your maternity appointments. Have they put it in writing that you need to make up the time? I would be emailing HR to ask them to clarify why they believe you were not entitled to this time to attend your appointments.

Hmm. I am sympathetic, however you say you were off two days sick, and have a lot of appointments which take upto the whole day. Although on the day you detailed, you said you hot back home at 3pm. Was your work closed by then? Why didn't you go back to work straight from appointments? Tbh, hr probably feels you are taking a great deal more time off than you require, and I can understand why, in that case. Are there no guidelines on how many hours should be given for medical appointments in your workplace? Even do, this wouldn't cover the time at the end of the day when you could have gone back to work. It wasn't your fault it dragged on, but it wasn't theirs either, and you are bring paid for a lot of time you are not working.
If you're leaving so soon though, I'd see about taking that 5. 5hrs as unpaid, just to clear it. Sorry I can't advise you legally.

Useful guidance from acas:
m.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=5343

Agree that you should ask hr to clarify why they believe you are not entitled to this time off.

More detailed guidance for maternity action:
www.maternityaction.org.uk/advice-2/mums-dads-scenarios/pregnant/time-off-for-antenatal-care/

thank you @fizzicles @Alondonleerie. Because it takes me an hour to get to work and I finish work at 5, there isnt much point in driving to work only to be here for an hour. they are asking me to make up that hour I could have been working plus some of the travel time.

The company policy states:
^You are entitled to take time off during your normal working hours to receive ante-natal care (as long as you have informed the Company that you are pregnant). You should try to arrange your appointments at the start or end of your working day, whenever possible.

Ante-natal care includes

 appointments with your GP,  hospital clinics, and  relaxation classes.

You may be required to produce an appointment card or other document, confirming all appointments other than the first. You should advise your line manager that you will be absent as far in advance of your appointment as possible.

There will be no deduction from your salary for attendance at authorised ante-natal appointments (as long as you are only absent for a reasonable period of time), including any time spent travelling to and waiting for the appointment.^

but I dont know what is classed as reasonable time

I am very tempted to take the time of as unpaid, specially if i am being paid for the sick days and everything else

So the policy says you shouldn’t have to make up the travel time. They could probably argue that you need to make up an hour from the day you mention. Did you check with your line manager if they wanted you in or just decide yourself it wasn’t worth it?

No, legally you’re entitled to paid time off for maternity appointments.

It seems like the only thing your company could reasonably make you pay back is the 3-5pm from the day your appts all went wrong. I'd go back with a counter offer of that. I'm pretty sure legally you're entitled to up to 6 hours per appointment but am not 100% sure.

I would send them a detailed time,one of your appointments that day and the required travel. And ask them to confirm how they have calculated the hours that you owe.

@fizzicles I have no issues in making up that hour but I cannot undeerstand how she has calculated it to 5.5 hours.

@TooDamnSarky I have saud I will bring in my hospital notes as well as print of the uber emails to show them but I fell like she has just ignored this comment

I have just emailed her and asked her to clairfy why it is 5.5 and also mentioned our company policy

I think you are approaching this the right way. However, I'd add that s it possible to work from home when the appointments are too late? I had a couple with my first pregnancy where the appointment would be at something ridiculous like 11:00. SO I'd work from home in the morning, go to the appointment, then home around lunch and work from home the rest of the day. My boss wasn't wild about me working from home (a whole different story) but he preferred this to me losing a full half day for an appointment.

@BlingLoving unfortunately my role means that I dont have the option to work from home. it would have made my life so much easier if I could work from home and this is one of the reasons I want to do this properly because I would like to request working from home once bubba arrives.

Hi OP

I agree HR should only be asking you to make up the 2 hours from that appointment which finished at 3pm. No company can really determine what is ‘reasonable’ time off, it’s such a broad term. You are legally entitled to the time off, you do not have to make the time back including your travel time there and back. I’d be asking HR to clarify for you as that alone is touchy. So you need the calculation of their working out.

I’m assuming what’s happened is that your former boss hasn’t passed the details on properly before leaving. HR are now left trying to ensure everything was fairly managed hence the random email! Don’t worry too much into though.

Also somebody mentioned your sickness, it does not matter if you had 2 days sick, if this was a pregnancy related illness (which I’m guessing) they can’t use that absence against you as a normal sickness record. It’s recorded separately and not managed. If HR wanted too they could have a chat with you about it but it should be done from a welfare point of view particularly if there’s anything more than offer you in respect to your GD etc. The company I work for at the moment don’t, however my previous one did. I also wouldn’t worry about the length of time or frequency of your appointments, you are protected and have GD - your company have to suck it up. All I suggest is that you gather letters etc which you’ve said you are in the process of doing anyway. You are covered & followed their process.

It may be worth asking your midwife to write a letter stating the frequency of appointments and your condition as ‘medical evidence’ if you struggle to get old specific dates / times from the hospital. It’s shit that companies can ask for it, as I say my last company did this all the time as somebody who works in HR I ended up leaving as their levels of employee engagement were incredibly low & it was a miserable place to work. Abit of trust in employees goes a long way.

You take care of yourself & your baby!

Sorry for all the typos it’s the old MN excuse of “I’m on my phone” ...stupid phone!

Because it takes me an hour to get to work and I finish work at 5, there isnt much point in driving to work only to be here for an hour.

Your manager clearly thinks otherwise. I would think that you were taking the piss with that attitude too.

She has replied with
To date we have received no confirmation of any of your antenatal appointments which we do need. As you have stated - it is a reasonable amount of time and that would be around 2 hours - hence 5.5 hours as you were out for a full day. She wanst to sit down on Monday and go through it all. I am so tempted to ask how she has determined reasonable time is 2 hours. She totally ignores my comment about not having letters for GD appointments but having everything in my notes.

@Islathepaella Hi, I agree with you, I also feel as though my manager not massing everything onto HR has caused me to end up in this situation. I am just so glad I kept all my emails and letters and I can show HR. I'm also going to call the maternity unti now and see if they can provide a tie line of when I was there so that I have something esle on Monday to show her.

@SileneOliveira I have an email from his saying I wouldn't be expected to come back in the afternoon if the appointments run over.

I’m very surprised she actually wrote (in an email too!) 2 hours! She can’t just decide that 2 hours is acceptable! The below is from ACAS:

Pregnant employees

Pregnant employees are entitled to reasonable time off with pay for antenatal care made on the advice of a registered medical practitioner. This may include relaxation classes and parent-craft classes. Except for the first appointment, employees should show the employer (if requested), an appointment card or other documents showing that an appointment has been made. For a first baby women can expect to have up to 10 antenatal appointments. If an employee has previously had a baby then they may have about 7 antenatal appointments.

All pregnancies are different, some women may need more antenatal visits.

^ this 100%. So many companies ignore that fact.

Do you work for a small company? They sound exactly like my old work place which was a very small local business, they didn’t like the HR policies because it wasn’t their way. HR at your place are walking on very touchy ground, especially with the 2 hour comment.

If I was you, I’d gather every piece of letter / notifications from the hospital you have ahead of next week. (And the emails as you say good job you did keep them) I’d speak to your midwife & get some document around that appointment which over ran. I’m sure the hospital could print out a letter confirming the time spent in total for your one appointment (this is an assumption) but I’m sure they could provide something along the lines. That way she can’t tell you that her 2 hour time limit is reasonable time off when as per above, every pregnancy is different and you’ve been diagnosed with GD. I’d also bring something which states you have been diagnosed with GD just a letter from your midwife or doctor which clearly states you have been diagnosed. As I’ve said you are already protected but you’ve just got extra evidence.

I feel for you OP I’m pregnant at the moment, I’ve been off sick since January with numourous pregnancy related illnesses and I’m only just feeling semi normal so should be back next week. My company have been fab, it’s sad so many companies treat people like this.

Also, it’s got me thinking I know you say they is no scope for you to work from home yet. However, if this lady is going through the documents with you it could be worth asking around when and if/how you go about working from home. That would significantly benefit you and the company right now. I’d also think ahead if there are any other reasonable adjustments they could make for you? I.e flexible hours starting / finishing earlier, back rests, extra breaks to eat regularly etc?

They should be working with you and trying to accommodate the last few weeks before your mat leave.

Well you had two appointments on the day you mention, so even on their arbitrary two hour limit, that's four hours on that day.

I do think you should have gone in for the last hour tbh. That would at least have shown you were making the effort. And they are with their rights to ask for evidence of appointments.

there isnt much point in driving to work only to be here for an hour.

I'm not sure your bosses would see it this way! As the owner of a small business this would piss me off tbh, that an employee just elected to take an extra 2 hours off as it was easier for them. I would feel resentful that the employee was taking the mickey and would think it is justified to ask you to make up that time.

She’s pulling that 2 hour figure out of her arse, OP.

Ask her for the policy that states two hours is the maximum. She won’t be able to, as she just made it up.

I’d just reply with-

“That’s interesting, as my midwife has said that I’m entitled to reasonable time off for all medical appointments, and this seems to be backed up by both the NHS website and Maternityaction.org.uk.

Is the 2 hour limit a company policy that you can point to me in the employee handbook?”

I assume the two hours she's got from father's being allowed up to two hours off for two antenatal appointments? But yeah, she's talking rubbish.

Have a read of this, OP-

www.maternityaction.org.uk/advice-2/mums-dads-scenarios/pregnant/time-off-for-antenatal-care/

This has made me really furious on your behalf. I administer pay for agency workers and have to stick to these rules, I just don’t understand why some jobsworth would try and make another employee’s life needlessly difficult like this.

I think the word "reasonable" means that, when there is doubt, every appointment needs to be studied on a case by case basis depending on how long it takes to travel, waiting times, etc.

The facts are:

• you had two appointments, not one
• you had a long waiting time
• you had to return due to a mistake in your prescription
• you have Uber receipts to prove that

Taking all that into account, the time you took off is perfectly reasonable as it would not have been possible for you to finish before 3pm. Therefore, I would offer to make up 2 hours as the HR request for 5.5 is totally arbitrary and unreasonable.

Print off everything you have, take it to the meeting and ask how it would have been possible (i.e reasonable) to do all that in 2 hours.

A reasonable amount of time would be the time it takes you for the appointment plus the time it takes you to travel between the place where the appointment is and your workplace. I think your employer is within their rights to ask you to pay back any time over and above this such as the extra hour you missed when you didn’t go back to work.

Hopefully you can sort it all out when you meet with HR as you have all the evidence of your appointments.

Sorry but if you’re taking an hour or two here and there because ‘there’s no point going in for an hour’ I would be taking a close look at it asking for confirmations and to make up time that is not apparently for appts too.

It’s highly unusual for a pregnancy appt to take an entire day unless there is a problem so can you really be surprised they are questioning it?