Kingston vs Royal Surrey, Private vs NHS

[samanthahall11]

Hi,
I've hardly used the NHS, I am not native British, I have no immediate family here and this is my first pregnancy, so I feel absolutely clueless. I have a load of questions and need some advice. I've read many posts that have been helpful - thank you - but some quite old so I wanted to get some more recent advice.

My priorities are:

• Vaginal birth (assuming I'm healthy, if I experience any complications through pregnancy I will book a section) but I want an epidural or similar.
• Safety of my baby and the absolute best care. I really don't care about food, and it doesn't bother me if I have to share a bathroom. I want to ensure I have my baby in a good hospital with sufficient well trained staff.
• I can afford some private care but having read various posts and assuming I don't discover any complications, it doesn't sound like I need to pay for full private care. I could afford it but it will be a stretch and at this stage it doesn't sound like its necessary.
• All my friends who have had NHS births have had bad tears. (Note I don't know anyone who has gone private so maybe its the same). I've gathered that this is because they were sent home and then by the time they came back to the hospital they were so far along that the baby comes quickly and the tear occurs. I have ZERO interest in being sent home when I am in labour.

So my questions:

• Should I use Kingston or Royal Surrey?
• Which have more staff? Which have better staff?
• Am I going to get turned away if I arrive in labour and its busy?
• Is it normal to tear during vaginal birth?
• Can I easily have access to a private obstetrician or independent midwife at both hospitals if I want?
• Having read about IMs isn't it better to pay for this so that you have continuity throughout rather than different MWs who are passing your information to each other?
• I'm having a private scan at 8 weeks at Window to the Womb Chessington to check for viability. How do I know the sonographer knows what they're doing? Should I be worried?

Thank you

Where do you actually live? I live roughly half way between both those hospitals and it’d be a half hour drive to both, not sure I’d want to be in the car that long, plus potential traffic.

In a car that long whilst in labour I should say

It sounds like you have a mix of concerns about the NHS vs concerns about giving birth.

The NHS cannot guarantee the absolute best care, or that you won't get sent home or won't tear -- neither can a private hospital.

If there is an emergency you'll be under NHS care anyway, private hospitals don't have emergency departments or blood banks.

As for Window to the Womb, it's a private scanning place, I'm not sure anyone here could tell you whether they know what they're doing. Have you checked out the reviews?

Wow! I wasn't expecting such quick responses!

@IsTheRainEverComingBack I'm in Weybridge - so half way in between - and 30 mins to each hospital.

@Daisy2990 - I didn't know emergency care was all NHS anyway, thank you. I have read reviews re Window on the Womb but didn't see anything particularly worrying. I don't know how difficult sonography is - can someone even get it wrong?

If someone is a qualified sonographer they wil be the same whether private or NHS.

If you’re in Weybridge why not St Peters? They have the birthing centre there now. Royal Surrey would be the next best bet, or even Frimley over Kingston due to the roads and likelihood of traffic on that journey.

Tearing is common and the likelihood of it happening won’t be any different in NHS or private.

I gave birth at Royal Surrey 5 years ago with my first. I was left to labour completely on my own. I wasn’t even put on the labour ward at first but antenatal and I had a strange man tell me to shut the fuck up while I lay on a bed half naked. I have absolutely no doubt that if there had been any kind of complication I or my baby would have died. Out of my NCT group of 6, 2 others had a similar experience. It may have changed now though as I don’t live in Surrey any more.

I refused to even consider getting pregnant with dc2 until I knew we could afford to go private.

If you’re in Weybridge why not St Peters? They have the birthing centre there now. Royal Surrey would be the next best bet, or even Frimley over Kingston due to the roads and likelihood of traffic on that journey

Yes St Peter's surely is nearest to you? I would avoid royal surrey.

I had a gender scan and a 3d scan at window to the womb in Chessington, it was lovely and they are professional sonographers and doctors that work privately. They have to be qualified in order to spot anomalies.

FWIW my SIL had her baby at Royal Surrey, and was very happy. My DSis had one at St Peters and they were seriously awful, they should have sued. The next (planned c-section) was fine. They’ve got a lot better in the last years and I’d be happy to use the birthing centre there myself now.

Thank you all.

St Peter's is close. The reason I discounted it is because it doesn't have private facilities - should I wish to go that route. So I just wanted options.
I've had mixed feedback on both Royal Surrey and St Peter's (through reviews and friends). Its so hard to choose!

Hiya, I don't live near you so can't comment on the hospitals, but regarding tearing it really does come down to personal circumstances and I really don't think private or NHS makes a difference. I've had two NHS vaginal births - one water, one on a bed. First I got a tiny graze and second first degree tear. Neither were painful or required any treatment. I believe the reason I did quite well was having a water birth. The warm water softens the area and I was fairly relaxed so no extreme pushing. With my bed birth, it wasn't as great, but again I waited until I felt baby was ready and 'went with my body', very short pushing phase and no extreme pushing. I didn't have epidurals, so not sure if they affect likelihood of tearing. Also if you need intervention such as forceps, an episiotomy could be done. So, there's no way of knowing whether you'll tear or not. It all depends how the birth progresses.

Regarding sonographers, as long as you're with a reputable company (should have qualifications and membership to industry bodies etc), I would trust them to do a decent job. I've seen a few bloggers use Window to the womb. You'll have your hospital scans at 12 and 20 weeks anyway, so you know they'll be done thoroughly.

Please just remember that the risks associated with childbirth will be the same in a private hospital as they are in an NHS one. Childbirth is dangerous, that’s just way it it. Your body will go through the ringer! The nurses and doctors in both hospitals will have the same training.

At st peters (I plan to deliver in the MLU there) I believe you can pay for a private en suite room on the labour ward after you've had the baby. Their website says its £200 a night If that's what your after although I suspect they are subject to availability on the day. In my opinion there isn't much point paying to go private unless you have oodles of spare cash or you want an elective section. I can think of far better ways to spend money but that's just me.

You can get an elective c-section on the NHS

Thank you all for the advice. Much appreciated.

Sorry another question: Between St Peter's, Royal Surrey and Kingston - which has the better maternity unit for complications? If I have a straight forward pregnancy it doesn't sound like there is a big difference across the 3 but if I have issues then maybe one is better than the others?

istherainevercomingback oh absoutely, I meant to say if you have lots of cash and wanted a c-section it would make sense to go private. I think it's great that you can request and get an elective on the NHS (but that's a topic for another time and not helpful to this thread!)

samanthahall11 I know people who have delivered at all 3 hospitals. One had an emergency c-section at St Peter's after a difficult labour but didn't have anything bad to say. Another friend had a ventouse delivery at Royal Surrey and didn't have any bad things to say about her care either. Another delivered at Kingston and also didn't have anything bad to say. All three hospitals have good neonatal care facilities should your baby need it and all will be well equipped to deal with emergencies. Comparing all three will be hard as it is unlikely that you will get an unbiased view from someone who has used all three with the same type of birth/complications.
You feeling confident in where you give birth is the most important thing so do as much research as you can would be my advice and see if you can arrange any tours at the facilities.

That makes sense! At this stage I'm leaning towards Royal Surrey because they have 3 birth pools vs 1 at the other two hospitals. I don't know if I will or won't want to go that route but at least there's an option. Royal Surrey also has more rooms per birth (9 rooms for

What sort of private care are you seeking? It's not the case that you can just turn up at a hospital whilst in labour and pay for a private consultant/midwife - these things need to be arranged in advance.

I'm local to you. I gave birth to my first at Kingston. Kingston has capabilities for private medical care, St Peter's doesn't. Both offer private rooms to NHS patients at a cost. I was happy with my treatment at Kingston, I was 4cm dilated when I arrived and was admitted to MLU. I have a second degree tear but it was because I pushed when I wasn't having a contraction. Conversely I met a woman on my hynobirthing course who wasn't happy with Kingston for her first labour so was going to St Peters for her second.

Kingston can be fussy about who they accept as a patient. I believe they are one of the busiest maternity units in London. I was living in Raynes Park when I found out I was pregnant and Kingston midwife told me at my booking appointment that I should go to St George's or Chelsea and Westminster, this was despite Kingston actually offering midwife clinics/scans at Raynes Park (where I was at when I was told this!!). If you do want to give birth at Kingston I would self refer ASAP. As pp have said, bare in mind that the traffic to Kingston can be awful from the Weybridge area. I can't say for certain but I would expect that as you are 'out of area' all your midwife appointments would take place at Kingston which could be a drag with the traffic especially if you have appointments in the early morning (all my scans were around 9.30am).

I'm having my second at St Peters. To date I'm happy with their service. I have a lot of friends who have given birth there and they are all happy, I certainly get the impression that there have been significant improvements there over the past few years. My midwife appointments are all at West Byfleet, where I live, which is very convenient. I have the same midwife for all appointments but obviously no guarantee she will be with me when I give birth. At Kingston I had a different midwife for every appointment as they work on a rota system.

I have one friend who has given birth at St Peters and Royal Surrey. She didn't find there was too much difference, slightly preferred Royal Surrey but I think it was because she had an elective c-sec there instead of an emergency like she had at St Peters so it was less stressful.

Kingston, St Peters and Royal Surrey all have neo natal units. Kingston is a level 2, St Peters is a level 3. I couldn't establish from RS website what level theirs is.

In general, the benefit of paying privately is the continuity of care (you'll have the same midwife and/or consultant, give or take i.e. Holidays/illnesses, from start to finish), someone at the end of the line if you have a query, you're often paying for better conditions such as food, ambiance, rooms and possibly the option for a c-sec on a specific date. Unfortunately private care doesn't mean that your baby is safer - The Portland Hospital has a very famous private maternity wing and they unfortunately have had avoidable deaths of babies.

Perhaps a doula may be worth looking into? There's quite a few in Surrey.

Bear in mind St. Peter’s are the only level 3 NICU in the area, so in terms of best care for the baby should an emergency arise (which of course we hope doesn’t, and provided you don’t have any risk factors this shouldn’t be a huge worry for you) St. Peter’s is the best choice there. I’m booked at St. Peter’s and other than being ‘forgotten’ about at a scan (over an hours wait as the receptionist hadn’t booked me in properly!) have had good appointments there and am booked in for the birthing suite.

Sorry just responding to your last point as well - St. Peter’s have 3 birthing pools in their birthing centre, it’s labour ward that only has the one.

So helpful - thank you DaCruzon.

Excuse my ignorance but is there a difference between private medical care and NHS medical care - isn't it just the same doctors in an emergency? Or will the better doctors go to private care hospitals?

Thanks for the advice re traffic to Kingston. That just about rules it out for me, and the fact that its so busy.

I'm impressed St Peter's is level 3. I googled a bit and found Royal Surrey is level 1 so that makes me lean toward St Peter's.
Do you know if St Peter's offers elective c sections? Again I just want to keep my options open.

I'm considering getting a private midwife rather than a doula actually. Mostly to have someone for advice, to fight my corner during labour/birth, and continuity of care. I've heard amazing things about NHS midwives so I can't say anything bad really. I guess its peace of mind that it boils down to.

I've had two babies with the NHS and I've never torn, some of my friends didn't and some did you can't just guarantee something like that.

@PickettBowtruckles: My preference is to have an epidural so I think the birthing centre is out unfortunately.
Out of interest, why do people not elect to have the epidural? I mean why scream through the pain if you don't have to? Are they very risky or are there side effects?

You can't have an epidural and a water birth (well you could probably start in the water but if you want an epidural you'll have to get out as you can't give birth in the pool). I expect you'd be moved to the labour ward for an epidural.

I gave birth on the NHS, not privately, so this isn't my area of expertise. You'd need to check with Kingston/RS hospital about what their private services entails.

I expect most of the doctors who work privately do so because the money is better than what they are paid in the NHS.