Pram for newborn

[Noodles14]

Hi all. Please forgive me for my naivety as I'm a FTM and have no idea about Prams!
So, help me!
The basics...you need a pram for a newborn that lies completely flat yes? How long do they have to be in a flat pram for? Do most prams come with two attachments- a flat one and the tilted one that doubles up as a car seat (if you have an isofix too)?! Please correct me if I'm wrong.
So we are looking for a pram that is not going to break the bank. Certainly don't want to spend anywhere near £1000 so I'm assuming some brands can be ruled out straight away? We walk a lot with the dog so want something fairly lightweight, good on gravel paths and can fit into my BMW 1 series when folded down...does this even exist?!
Any help on brands to look at or advice on what to watch out for is greatly appreciated.

If I were you I wouldn't go for the traditional pram. The out and about buggy is a use from birth buggy that is very lightweight and great for walking. It doesn't have a car seat with it but I think you can get adapters to sit it on it. Best off to go to a good retailer and have a chat and tell them your needs.

Are you sure you need one? We used a sling/carrier from birth which is much more flexible imo. With eldest a friend had given us their old one which we never used.

We've got a Baby Jogger City mini and the carry cot attachment although you can lay them flat in it from birth. It's pretty good on rough ground and was less than £500 when we bought it a couple of years ago.
We've also got a double Out n About which is second hand, that's much better on rough ground. You can get an insert for newborns too.

You don't need ISOfix for an infant car seat that clips into a pram (picking up another point). But newborns aren't supposed to be in a car seat for a prolonged period of time so you might decide you don't need the flexibility of being able to fit the seat into the pram.

I had a maxicosi pebble car seat and an out n about nipper 360 after a lot of research and advice from two lovely ladies in an independent baby shop.

The nipper is a great pushchair/pram for walking. To make it suitable for newborns you can either buy the carrycot to clip onto it go or buy the newborn insert for the pushchair. I went for the carrycot but in hindsight should have gone for the insert.

The maxicosi car seat can be used in the car with isofix or belted. You can buy adapters to make it fit onto the nipper pushchair. It's great to be able to lift the car seat out with a sleeping baby in and clip it straight onto the pushchair but it's only really suitable for short trips e.g to pop into a couple of shops and not for going for walks/out for the day.

Good luck. Pram shopping nearly ending in divorce for us😂😂. I have a 23year age gap between my Dd's. Shopping for Dd2 pram the assistant grilled us on what we wanted 3,4 fixed or swivel wheels. Forward facing, 3in1. She didn't look impressed when after hours and hours DH told me to pick a pram any pram.
Our pram cost stupid money with every accessory you could think of( half of which we never used).
Sorry I'm much help Noodles14

From the advice I got:

1. You probably won't get a pram/push chair that does everything so get one that fits your main priorities.
2. If you want to use a sling for walking on rough ground then find your nearest sling library to try some out before buying one.
3. Get something that fits in your car easily if that's your main mode of travel (measure your boot), otherwise get something that fits on public transport easily and you can put down quickly.
4. You need a lie flat attachment/carry cot for the first 6 months. This should face towards you.
5. If you find you need a lighter push chair after 6 months then try and find one second hand.
6. You can get ones with car seat attachments - they don't have to be isofix but they must be backwards facing in the car. You can only leave a newborn in them for about 2 hours as otherwise it affects their breathing.
7. Make sure it fits in your hall or whether you are going to store it.

Go and try a few out to see how wide they are, how quickly they go down etc. at stores like John Lewis, Mothercare. Presuming there is a height/limb length difference between you and your OH, then only when you and your OH are both happy with one buy it.

You can only leave a newborn in them for about 2 hours as otherwise it affects their breathing. New research says new born can only be in for 30 mins and 2 hours when they are older.

If money is tight and you are happy not have a car seat that stays in the car then I would recommend the Joie every stage from birth. I had a heavy baby and quickly stopped taking the car seat in and out as the car seat is so very heavy and awkward to carry.

Don’t be afraid to look at second hand pranks in fact second hand anything except for mattresses and car seats unless you can guarantee it has not been in a crash.

I did not get it as Mum was happy to pay £££ but I think the armadillo flip looks good.

I’m looking at an Out n About Nipper for when dc3 arrives, they look like they’d suit my needs. Mostly rural, some off-roading.

With dc1 and 2 I had a Phil & Teds which was great but I don’t need two seats anymore. I still have the new baby carrier which came with that and the Out n About can lie flat for newborns. I got that second hand and was really pleased with it, the Nipper seems to hold its value so I may just get a new one (they are £220 at the moment).

I'm with @TheCag

We're looking at getting an Out n About Nipper when baby is born. £220 new or around £150 second hand in our area.

You can get carry cots for them for about £20 - £40 second hand rather than £130 new or newborn inserts for £10 - £20 each.

Our main reasoning for choosing the Nipper is we have 2 dogs and do lots of walking in the woods etc - they're meant to be great for off road and will also fold small to fit in the boot of my Mini Cooper which is an added bonus!

Have you looked at the baby zen yoyo? It's super lightweight and folds tiny (hand luggage size). You can get a newborn coccoon for it and car seat adapters. It won't be great for off roading but a walk round the park on paths with the dog would be ok. I think it ticks all your boxes but it is pricey - however will last a long time.

I had a travel system (hauck Malibu £200~) with my first. Had a flat carry cot for birth, a normal stroller with reclined almost flat for a bit older to toddler size. And a car seat suitable from birth. All were removable and interchangeable to suit what I need it for.
This time I have a second hand pramette which is essentially the same thing. You don't need to spend loads especially when they only use the flat carry cot for maybe 3 or 4 months and the car seat until they outgrow it. My son was 9 monthsish when I needed to upgrade x

We have bought a out n about nipper sport (fixed front wheel, bigger wheels, more suspension) with carrycot for whilst he’s little. We live quite rurally and only have one car so my main priority was being able to walk across the footpaths to the nearest village or bus stop if DH had the car. We’re also both runners so it will be perfect to be able to take him out running once he’s grown out of the carrycot stage - DH can’t wait to win a parkrun with a buggy 🙄. We chose the nipper sport over the Thule glide because it was slightly cheaper and the wheelbase is slightly shorter which is better for our tiny cottage. I’m planning on using a sling most of the time but there will definitely be situations that require a buggy for us!

IMO the expensive travel systems can be a bit of a con. Babies shouldn’t be in car seats for prolonged periods of time and they seem to largely be style over substance. All that unclipping car seat business when you could have just slipped them into a sling seems like a bit of a faff to me!

We have a micralite fastfold with a carrycot for newborn. It is light with pneumatic rear tyres. However, not stocked in usual shops but specialist baby shops. Half the price of the usual pushchairs too.

you dont need to bother with the carrycot attachment if you dont want to. I never did. Some prams lie completely flat anyway. I got an urbo2 from mamas and papas and the main bit lies flat and is suitable from birth.. it can face both ways as well so it lasted us several years.. in fact I am using it for baby no2 now! I never liked the carrycot attachment its just a massive faff and really hard to transport in a car if you have other baby equipment too. Plus I didnt like it that my baby couldnt really see anything... I know they cant see very far in the first weeks but it must be very boring to just stare at the side of a coffin like cot all the time when outside!
Pluses about the Urbo2 were also that it has a great hood which shades from the sun really well and part of it unzipps to a mesh so that it lets in air but still shades from sun. Bad things were that it has quite small wheels so not great on grass, and it has a chunky base so although it does fold up it is a bit of hassle to dismantle.. not idea for public transport if you use it.

All that unclipping car seat business when you could have just slipped them into a sling seems like a bit of a faff to me!

Ah yes.

I thought that too until faced with trying to put a sleeping baby that you really do not want to wake up into a sling... I didn't make that mistake again with DC2 and bought the adapters for the car seat to fit the pushchair ready!

There are up to three possible seat options for a pram/pushchair. You can use one or two of these or all of them. You don't have to buy all of them.

Usually any pram/pushchair will come with a main seat unit which is designed mainly to be used when it's in pushchair mode - this can be sitting up like a chair or reclined for sleeping and sometimes they go into a fully flat recline. Most pushchairs (if you think of something like a Maclaren or Graco for example) have this built in to the frame and it can't be removed, but with some, usually the more expensive models, you can take the seat unit out and turn it around so that it can be parent facing or forward facing. The main seat unit is usually used until your child is around 3 years old and stops needing a pushchair. If it lies flat, you can in theory use it from birth, but you might not want to if it faces away from you. Otherwise they are only recommended for use from 3-6 months upwards depending on how well your child sits up and how reclined the seat unit goes. Bear in mind, some have a kind of hinged recline so go from L-shape to flat (or _ ) whereas others have a more moulded kind of seat which only tips backwards, so your baby ends up napping in a kind of V shape instead.

Then you'll have the option on some pushchairs to add a carrycot which makes it into a more traditional type of pram as in a completely flat bed on wheels. Some carrycots can only be used on the pram, and some also double up as a moses basket/portable bed for the baby. Typically a carrycot will be usable until 4-6 months depending on the size of your baby. You may find by 4 months they get nosy and want to see out more than the carrycot allows.

Lastly some pushchairs have the additional extra option of adding a car seat. Usually you'll need special adaptors to attach it. This will only be the infant type of car seat with the carry handle which works up until around 12-18 months depending how big your baby is. You'll probably only want to use the car seat in this way until your baby is around 9 months as they get very heavy. It's not really recommended to use the car seat on the pushchair for long periods because the angle is quite upright and not very healthy for newborns, but it is useful for quick trips, or to reduce bulk in the car especially if your pushchair's seat unit can be totally removed. This kind of car seat can always be fitted into your car using the car's seatbelt, but some of them also come with the option of an isofix base which means you can just click the car seat in and out of the car without any fiddling.

Jargon buster:
Travel system = will include a car seat
2 in 1 = has a toddler seat plus either a carrycot OR the seat converts to parent facing lie flat
Pram = definitely has a carrycot
Stroller/buggy = likely lightweight and suitable for older child only

IMO - look at the following brands:

Joie
Britax
Cybex (not their top end ones)
Mothercare
Mamas and Papas
Mountain Buggy
Cosatto (only if you're into bright colours and patterns - not much to differentiate otherwise)

You can also get some really good deals on the more expensive makes, Quinny, Bugaboo, Uppababy etc if you're willing to look second hand.

Oh and a pramette - usually means a pushchair where the seat unit doubles up as a parent-facing lie flat WITHOUT separate carrycot.

I bought a Cosatto Giggle 2 today. £444 from Mothercare and it has a carrycot, pushchair seat and comes with the carseat that clips onto the frame. If you look out for offers they don't have to be anywhere near £1k.

Actually I've just seen in your OP you suggested gravel paths - if you're talking about actual deep gravel, not a chance of getting any pushchair through that. Research babywearing and invest in a really good sling (or get a stretchy wrap for newborn and then move to a really nice SSC for when they get bigger).

If you mean simply rough/unfinished paths which are quite solid underneath then you just want a pushchair with big wheels.

I would take Mamas and Papas off the list because none of them are any good for off roading (tiny wheels) and maybe look at the Maxi Cosi pushchairs - again not the most expensive but the mid/low range.

I think a good tip is to have a real firm sense of your requirements before you go shopping. I checked the specs. Online so I knew the 2/3 I was picking from in the shop.

Also to get a pram that fits your storage requirements in the car and at home without to much fuss. So you don't want to be taking the wheels off to get it into the boot.

Some prams have a carrycot that you use for the first 6 months and some have a seat that lies completely flat so you can use it from birth.

Most have a feature to attach a car seat which is really handy if you are nipping in somewhere for 10mins. Isofix s about fitting the car seat to the car not the pram. I think it's really helpful to pick the car seat and pr at the same time. If you get a fixed 0-4 car seat that doesn't fit to the pram you maybe just get a sling. If you get a lie flat car seat you might not need a carrycot to clip to the pram but the take up lots of space in the car.
I think the choices are quite related.

Ohh and gravel is the worst surface I find for a pram. Some of the bigger ones handle it better so maybe look second hand. I find the cyber priam better on gravel but if you use it lots you might want 4 chunky wheels (you can swap them) but my experience is they take up more boot space.

Maybe ask a specific question about prams for gravel if you have to use it lots on that surface say with a gravel drive. My small prams won't move on gravel at all when I have any weight in it.

@BertieBotts, this is professional level insight, thank you

Don't know if it's been mentioned but there is a Mamas and Pappas pram (I forget the name of it) which is a 3 in 1. If you can't be bothered with the carry cot, the buggie seat is suitable from birth and you don't even have to detach it when you fold the pram! I nearly bought it but stupidly went for the silver cross Brompton, which is beautiful, but you have to take it to bits to fold it 🤨

I got a second hand Bugaboo Cameleon on eBay for £200. It comes with the carrycot attachment which, depending on size of baby, they’re in for the first 2-4 months. The Pram seat which is suitable up to three years when they generally vacate the Pram anyway. And car seat clips for maxi Cosi car seat but we have a birth-the end car seat that stays in the car, just makes more sense financially because they’re not in infant car seats very long at all.