Desperate: want this baby but close to termination for anxiety

[cheerfullysleepless]

Has anyone had any experience of really effective treatment for antenatal anxiety? I am pregnant with much wanted second child and, exactly as with first, convinced self already that have somehow harmed this poor unborn kid - last time because thought had drunk before knowing pregnant, this time was so so careful on that front so now decided that fact am 7-10 lb overweight has condemned it. Sounds ridiculous I know but am already having to talk self through fact that whilst suicide might feel like "easy" way out of having to keep on feeling like this for several months vs terminating child husband and I both want it would be an enormous betrayal of my son. I never feel anything like this when not pregnant. Am terrified that if terminate will have total breakdown, never forgive self and lose marriage and be appalling parent to son. Am terrified that if I don't, will spiral like last time and be sectioned and let down son. Advice last time was that this most likely wouldn't happen again, but it clearly is doing. I want to get better and be strong and brave and just feel clueless and without a plan. Has anyone been here? Can anyone help? Thank you so so much in advance.

[cheerfullysleepless]

Thanks everyone for being so so lovely: my gp did make the referral but by letter not email so have missed this week’s allocations so no appt next week or probably until 12th. Seeing GP weds and will see what they can do in meantime - really want to make this work if can. Thank you all so much for being such fantastic support xxxx

[sourpatchkid]

You're amazing, honestly you sound so wonderful.

[cheerfullysleepless]

Please dont tell me I'm wonderful. I'm not, I'm a selfish irresponsible mess. Last time I did this my mother and father aged about ten years (I'm an only child), my marriage was strained beyond belief - not his fault at all, he was fantastic throughout but leaving work early because your wife is being sectioned takes its toll especially when you ultimately have to explain your erratic attendance patterns to your boss and you're a very private man. My friends were put through the mill too like you wouldn't believe and not all my friendships survived and I don't blame them. I keep remembering things that happened like meetings with vulnerable students and parents where I just started crying, or days I would just be sobbing on the tube and not know about it.

The truth is, there very possible isn't appropriate support out there. I swear to god last time we tried everything NHS and private and are still paying off debts from then. It's so so dark but the only thing that got me to sleep each night was telling myself that worst case scenario I had a way of ending things which wouldn't look deliberate so no one would feel betrayed. I cannot, not not not not not not get to that point whilst I have my son to care for. I'm out of my depth and not sure what sensible steps to take. This morning woke at 5 and was doing CBT on myself but had answer after answer for my rational responses. The anxiety is so so strong and feels real. I decided to try to take some proactive steps and so so far have:

1. Emailed 2 specialists re weight and management to see if can see them privately about healthy weight loss (credit cards still have some balance on them :)
   
2. Emailed the academic who produced the research to ask whether they think there are any sensible steps I can take now
   
3. Gone back to clinical team asking if they have any recommendations of people I can see more quickly next week.
   

I'm trapped. My head is telling me to save everyone from this nightmare, terminate now before things go too far and I can't do that and be grateful for a wonderful family of us 3. DH has said he would understand if had to terminate and would support but couldn't do this again so that would be it, which is fair. My heart is telling me to keep dreaming of a family of 4 and all the joy it could bring. My anxiety is telling me that termination would make me guilty and depressed forever so a terrible mother and wife and deprive son and dh of wanted sibling, but that continuing will end with child who has problems I have created and will impact them both too so only solution is to somehow just disappear. I can't bear this and I don't know what to do anymore. I'm so sorry, this is probably triggering and horrible and selfish - can't think where else to turn and I'm so so sorry.

[reallybadidea]

Sweetheart, you're NOT selfish and irresponsible, you're ill. This is NOT your fault. You wouldn't be beating yourself up like this if you'd broken your leg or had pneumonia, so there is no need to be so hard on yourself now. There is one big difference from last time - you know now that you CAN get through this because you've already done it. You're right that there probably is no magic bullet that will completely get rid of your anxiety, but you also know the things that helped a bit last time so you can focus on doing these things more and you won't waste time on the things that don't help.

Try not to look too far into the future, just get through today. You are so brave and strong.

[LapinR0se]

I read this last night when I was very tired and I couldn’t get my thoughts together to write something coherent.
I remember you so well from your first pregnancy and I also cried with happiness and relief when you came back to update us after the birth of that baby.
Anxiety is a bully and a thief. It robbed me of many many experiences, things I avoided because I was too afraid. I too had very specific fears: I was afraid of losing control
of my bladder or bowels in public. I convinced myself that not only was this possible but probable. I read about it happening to other people all day on the Internet, obsessively searching out their stories on IBS forums and then reading them with hot prickly horror.
I told myself and it was safer for me to stay at home. I didn’t leave my house for weeks which turned into months. I lost a promotion and work and was signed off on long term sick leave.
In spite of all this I wanted to get pregnant and ended up doing IVF to have a baby. Then when I was pregnant my anxiety skyrocketed that my child would have no life trapped indoors with an agoraphobic reclusive mother. It would be better not to have a child, I told myself. I was in a terrible state.
I wanted to convince myself about the bladder and bowel thing. I had tests upon tests that showed actually my bladder and bowels were fine but I did not believe them.
Finally I sought proper help. I went to the best private and shockingly expensive clinic in London which is the Capio Nightingale hospital. I saw a psychiatrist called Dr Anne Cremona who diagnosed me and got me in with one of the top CBT people within 2 days. I had intensive CBT for my whole pregnancy and slowly slowly I managed to do things: post a letter, buy some milk, get on a bus and proudest of all sit through a concert.
In fact having a child was brilliant. It changed everything. I had a little person other than myself to focus on and I wanted to go and show her the world. I overcame my anxiety half in pregnancy and half after she was born.
You also felt a million times better after your darling son was born. Do not let anxiety rob you of the chance to have a second child and a sibling for him. You have got to fight it fight it fight it. Beat the anxiety into submission. You have 7.5 months to go of this pregnancy which is long BUT in the grand scheme of your life it is very short.
I know you have taken some steps today but some of them are trying to confirm your anxiety. Please call Anne Cremona at the Capio, see if she can help you. tel:+44-2075357705

[sourpatchkid]

You aren't selfish. You aren't choosing this - you have anxiety. You would make it go away in a second if you could.


Have you tried other forms of therapy? Mindfulness or acceptance and commitment therapy?

[cheerfullysleepless]

Thank you all so much - have made an initial enquiry with that lady. Trying to sort things out :) thanks for all being so so kind xxxx

[LapinR0se]

Keep posting whenever you need. We are here

[cheerfullysleepless]

Bit less manic and wanted to post thanks to everyone. Being an entitled North London nightmare emailed Emily Oster about the study. She sent back such an informed and reassuring response - couldn't say no link 100% but said quality of use of data low and something about regression which i didn't fully understand but basically because obesity and waist size v highly correlated and other studies found no link between obesity and neuro stuff this whole finding could be to do with just a few people. Have an appointment next Tuesday with dr Cremona (thank you LapinR0se) and still have a knot in my tummy but not an all consuming tear inducing terror. So. progress. Even took son to beach and had fun. Thank you thank you thank you mumsnetters, honestly, you don't know what a life line you are xxxx

[PotteringAlong]

Sounds like a good day all round then. And it’s one day more of pregnancy done and you got through it.

[sourpatchkid]

We are here as long as you need us

[LapinR0se]

Oh amazing. I am so glad you spoke with Emily Oster and are seeing Dr C. She is a tiny little woman like an old sparrow but very wise. Let me know how you get on. Will have my fingers crossed for you on Tuesday

[Fedupxmum]

I had such bad anxiety with my second daughter, wasn't due to being pregnant itself but my nan died a few months before I found out I was pregnant. I had suffered with depression and anxiety for years before but it was under control. I was really close to my nan and it just triggered my anxiety really badly. I had never had it so bad, it felt like I was living in a glass dome, NOTHING seemed real, walls closing in, everything I owned and everything I looked at was fake. Convinced myself I was going to die and that my baby would die, just like that, like she did. I would hold my breath without realising and it would send me in to full on panic, even when sleeping. I checked my heart rate every moment of the day, begged my husband to check it constantly as well, it was out of control. Was so worried about my baby. I went to my doctor but she couldn't help me much due to being pregnant but she suggested I spoke to somebody, it didn't help at all. She ended up putting me on tablets that I can't remember the name of now but thay made it worse. I had to try my hardest to get myself out of the position I was in, husband didn't understand at all, I frustrated him so much that he used to shout at me but I somehow managed to get it under control. I ignored it and tried my very best to not let my head get the better of me and trained my line of thinking to calm myself down if I felt a panic attack coming on. It worked for me but it took a long time. By the end of my pregnancy I was feeling okay. Had my daughter and it all went away. Try talking to your Dr, meds aren't always the way to go, especially when pregnant. Talk to somebody and try to get yourself out of the spiraling you are in, it is hard but I know you can do it. When you have your baby in your arms you will be fine. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to let you know I understand and that you don't have to make any hard decisions, especially when dealing with this. You haven't done anything to harm your baby, I am over weight and my children are fine, I am on my third pregnancy, due in two weeks. You can do it!

[reallybadidea]

How are you feeling today @cheerfullysleepless? I hope you managed to get a good night's sleep.

[LBNM19]

I suffered with severe anxiety during my 2nd pregnacy. I was refered for CBT, put on setraline, under the pre natel psychiatrist and saw a specialist mid wife. GP didn't quite no what to do but once i was referred to the hospital everything was put in place. There is help out there. X

[cheerfullysleepless]

Thanks everyone - sorry to miss these, wiped search history yesterday as was some crackers stuff on it and then lost log in for this!!! Yesterday was a bit better in that I didn’t have a full on meltdown but I did feel very tense all day and I am sure this must be affecting the baby. Tense as in chest tight and knot in stomach. Normally I get a release of an hour or two at some point later in the day but this didn’t really happen. I’m also making things worse for myself CBT wise I think because every time my anxiety comes up with something I come up with a reason we could handle it which then makes it more real. My husband has pointed out we would of course love any child with any challenges as much as our son now and that even if their needs were very complex would find a way to support them. I’ve found myself preparing long term financial arrangements in my head regarding giving up work to be a carer and him changing jobs to earn more so that we could do it and working out how it would work after we died which is not really a comfort so much as feels like making it more real. I don’t think I’m very well at all. I want to be responsible and feel like I did the first week of all this which was happy and excited, and I don’t know what to do.

[cheerfullysleepless]

It’s our last day here and I can hear kids playing everywhere. My son loves other kids, always calls them his friends etc and makes friends so easily. We are buying a family home this summer having had in mind a family of four. The thing is, getting to the point where he has a sibling might actually kill me or make me such a terrible mother I can’t live with myself. I am hiding in the loo crying because he and dh are sleeping. So so somwant to call my mum or a friend but the truth is this nearly killed them all last time and I can’t do that to them again. Why couldn’t I have just lost weight properly or not been born with such a stupid selfish brain???

[JustLikeTheySaid]

Contact the crisis team. You can find their number on the internet. They will help you through.

Also, ring the Samaritans every day at a scheduled time. I do this when my anxiety is really suicidally bad and it helps to outpour my worries.

[cheerfullysleepless]

That’s really kind and helpful. I’m not suicidal although I wish I wasn’t here. I’m more trapped and need a really informed professional to advise me on the techniques and likelihood of me getting this under control soon because I have to make an impossible decision with as much information as possible. I know how awful that sounds: I have dear friends who would give right arms to be pregnant and I am being so so ungrateful here but I really don’t know if I can do this.

[Popcorninapot]

Hi sleepless. I also remember you from last time and was completely delighted to hear you had your baby. I was very much affected by your earlier thread as my sister has a scarily similar form of anxiety to you. She has it on and off outside of pregnancy but was pregnant at the same time as you and struggled in a similar way. Her anxiety started based on (very minimaldrinking in the early days before she knew she was pregnant and eventually morphed into the damage anxiety itself would have on her baby. It was incredibly difficult for her but, like you, she got through it and has a wonderful perfectly healthy gorgeous little boy.

I expect her to try for another baby this year and am anticipating it could happen again. It doesn't matter what she does to combat it in advance - if the anxiety rears it's head it will find something to attach to. If it hadn't been the weight it would be something else for you, it's really not your fault or anything you can prevent.

What I wanted to say to you though is that even though my sisters pregnancy put all our family through the mill last time and was incredibly hard and devastating for us all to watch, I would hate to think she was suffering again and trying not to burden us. We helped her through it last time and will do it again. Tell your family. It's one more block of 7 months of pain for everyone but then you will have your family and will never have to go through this again. Your family know you made it through last time and it was totally worth it. Use everyone around you and all the help you can to get through 7 months.

Use this thread as an outlet whenever you can. Can you or anyone else restrict your internet access to stop the google spiral? I know that helped my sister from falling into black holes of research. Anything you can do to focus on dealing with the anxiety and catastrophic thought process rather than fear the anxiety is fixating on will help - you sound like you are doing all the right things.

Sending you much love 💐

[cheerfullysleepless]

I’m so so sorry your sister has gone through this. Did she find any professional support that worked? I’m an only child so would all go on my elderly quite isolated parents who are really happy and relaxed for the first time in years. I really hope she’s ok next time, this is a complete bastard of a feeling xxx

[Lovemylittlebear]

Anxiety can be really scary. Especially at a time that you think should feel different. I remember your last thread and you did so well and were very brave. You can do this now too!!! I highly recommend you look at Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, combined with CBT or as deemed appropriate by a qualified and experienced psychologist/psychotherapist. The research suggests it is a highly effective way to treat and manage anxiety. Obviously a qualified professional can also recommend a medical route too if they feel it is appropriate. I struggled after all three of my babies were born where anxiety was really difficult. However after the first one, I saw a brilliant psychotherapist via Skype and it skilled me up to make the second two births/hormones much more manageable with a couple of ‘check in therapy sessions’ to practice what I ‘knew’. The woman that I saw was Beverly Coghlan and I couldn’t recommend her more highly. Best of luck x

[Popcorninapot]

She also struggled to find appropriate support. Cbt helped to a degree but she wasn't convinced it was actually the right approach. I was amazed and frustrated that there was not more help available given how serious and debilitating anxiety in pregnancy can be.

She is a very intelligent successful woman and like you has a lot of insight into her condition. Unfortunately that doesn't help her when she is in the grip of it! But she did do some research into catastrophic thoughts and how to deal with those rather than more general cbt. I'll see if I can dig out anything that was helpful to her. Her understanding of her own condition was that she just couldn't control the random thoughts that everyone has but most people can brush off. So for most people reading that article might make them consider whether their weight impacting their pregnancy but can brush it off as unlikely and then carry on with life. But my sister can't brush it off and it spirals and takes over. She believes it's actually a form of OCD rather than general anxiety.

I think being in London could be a real bonus as more likely to be a bigger pool of experts there than where we are. The lady you have an appointment with that was recommended earlier in the thread sounds like a good course of action. If you can pay to get the right support it will be totally worth it just to get through. Once you are on the other side you'll never have to do this again.

[cheerfullysleepless]

Thank you all so so much for being so kind. Last week I thought I was miscarrying and was born devastated and relived which is the most thoughtless awful reaction when know so so many women including me previously desperate to be pregnant or devastated by loss. With a son to care for it does feel very very different though: please can someone tell me that if - after throughly researching the options and support etc - I do terminate, they would understand and not hate me for being a coward.

[Lovemylittlebear]

Reassurance seeking is part of the condition - trust me I know :( what is important is working out what your true values are and what is important to you and your husband. Then trying to live as best you can to those values whilst anxiety does its thing. I would be careful with regard to any self help without being overseen by someone specialised. My job role has lots of links into psychotherapy and I have basic training in a lot of it, so I have a very good understanding of how it works but when you are poorly it’s easy to believe your mind and to ‘buy into your thoughts’ which is why having that extra person to coach you through and challenge your thoughts is so helpful (from my experience although this may be different for others). It’s normal that your brain is trying to find a way out of this mental discomfort you are experiencing. You are recognising that these thoughts are an issue for you. You need the help to learn to live with the thoughts and not let them have the full effect that they are having. This is ACT and it really is a very effective tool for anxiety and OCD. X