Desperate: want this baby but close to termination for anxiety

[cheerfullysleepless]

Has anyone had any experience of really effective treatment for antenatal anxiety? I am pregnant with much wanted second child and, exactly as with first, convinced self already that have somehow harmed this poor unborn kid - last time because thought had drunk before knowing pregnant, this time was so so careful on that front so now decided that fact am 7-10 lb overweight has condemned it. Sounds ridiculous I know but am already having to talk self through fact that whilst suicide might feel like "easy" way out of having to keep on feeling like this for several months vs terminating child husband and I both want it would be an enormous betrayal of my son. I never feel anything like this when not pregnant. Am terrified that if terminate will have total breakdown, never forgive self and lose marriage and be appalling parent to son. Am terrified that if I don't, will spiral like last time and be sectioned and let down son. Advice last time was that this most likely wouldn't happen again, but it clearly is doing. I want to get better and be strong and brave and just feel clueless and without a plan. Has anyone been here? Can anyone help? Thank you so so much in advance.

[SiolGhoraidh]

'Try and break it down into chunks'

This worked really well for me when my anxiety kicked in (about three hours after the positive pregnancy test!) and my thoughts were much like yours.
I got referred for CBT and that really helped with managing my thoughts and worries and putting them in context.
I was looking into the future and making all sorts of terrible assumptions about how miserable it would be and how I'd fail to cope.
That was my brain lying to me. 25 weeks and my fat pregnant self has finished CBT, is carrying a healthy wee boy, is enjoying being pregnant at last, and even managed a foreign holiday. I never would have believed I could do that 20 weeks ago. It gets better.

[quantiestillecanisinfenestra]

Not much advice, but

This may not help how you feel at the moment, but being 7-10lb overweight will NOT harm your baby. They are amazingly resilient little things. How you're feeling right now will pass. Promise.

[cheerfullysleepless]

Thank you all so much - so so grateful for your kindness and also so pleased to read some of you have overcome this - you're absolute heroes! xxxx

[PistFump]

If it helps I'm over 100lbs overweight and just had a beautiful healthy happy baby boy 4 weeks ago. Fairly uncomplicated pregnancy as far as the weight was concerned. Please consider sertraline 💐

[reallybadidea]

I also remember you from your last pregnancy and I've often wondered how you were doing. I had quite bad pre and postnatal anxiety and depression in two of my pregnancies and it's a truly terrifying state of mind. I remember it used to feel like a kind of torture. Mine revolved around being convinced that I was hiv positive and that I was going to pass it on to my unborn baby. I did get through it though, just like you did last time.

It's good that you have got the wheels in motion with a referral. I took antidepressants in my worst-affected pregnancy. I think it did help and the baby was absolutely fine. Maybe try and hold onto the knowledge that you got through it last time and that this time you have caught it earlier. Try not to think too far into the future and if you need to throw some money at this situation with CBT or buying in domestic help then do so! Try and see it as an investment in yourself and your children.

[sourpatchkid]

I'm about 80 pounds overweight and had gestational diabetes but DS was absolutely fine.


I had really bad physical anxiety while pregnant - panic attacks every day, couldn't sleep at all, paced the house for hours on end. I was worried I was going to completely loose it when the baby was born but it literally stopped the second he was born.

It might be a tough ride but you can do this OP. You've done it before and that's amazing, you can do this ❤️

[cheerfullysleepless]

The study I’ve read that terrifies me is that if you have a pre pregnancywaist size above 80 cm your baby has a 60% increase of having asd, so it’s not the weight so much as tummy size. Measured mine today and not gained any weight yet and it’s over 90. I work with kids with asd and would consider it a privilege to have any one of them as my child, it’s not a fear of disability, I work with kids and know kids socially with a range of disabilities and understand those challenges and would never terminate on those grounds personally (though v v pro choice.) it’s the fear that I have affected a child in a way that someone responsible who took better care of themselves would not have done. So basically I feel grossly irresponsible. After last time focussed so much on not drinking etc that forgot other key things you need to do to be healthy. Comes in waves. Sometimes am numb enough to feel ok and get on with husband and family and other times have to feign illness and run and hide to sob because I cannot believe I’m here again.

[Canwejustrelaxnow]

I know it won't help for me to say this, but that study sounds like complete shit. I think you know it too, but anxiety doesn't work like that, I know. You have found something to fixate on, it's an outlet for your anxiety is all.

I'm really rooting for you op!

[Saturdaygap]

Oh OP. I think what's fantastic about your posts and about you at the moment is you are able to say "this is my anxiety". That's brilliant. Listen to that voice of reason.

[sourpatchkid]

op that study is horseshit - give me a reference and I'll prove it.

You have done nothing wrong. And here's the test .. my waist size is bigger than that, way bigger - do you think I'm terrible person? A bad mother? I'll bet anything you don't.

Anxiety will tell you lies.. don't believe it.

You sound wonderful by the way, that kid is going to be blessed to have you as it's mum.

[Sylv2017]

Anxiety is horrible. I've some experience with anxiety and you mention it comes in waves- that makes complete sense to me. Sometimes I can sit for hours googling, catastrophising and generally escalating... then it just dissipates. Horrible as you feel relief but wonder when the next wave will hit.

The study you've read doesn't sound very evidence based but anxiety doesn't care about that!

Do you know what soothes you? I sleep (I know some are the opposite) but I literally get in bed to stop my mind from spinning. Is there anything that works for you?

Sorry I do not have much advice and didn't want to hijack your thread but just wanted to reassure you that you're not alone.

[cheerfullysleepless]

You’re all so lovely. Of course you’re right - I don’t think you’re a terrible person or mother and would consider anyone who did think that to be an utter pillock. It’s more specifically that I spent so long being careful about folic acid and not drinking and sorting chaotic finances and generally feeling as smugly prepared as possible (not so much for baby’s sake in truth as attempt to preempt any anxiety source) and turns out forgot importance of weight. I know that one can’t prevent everything - my friends with children with additional needs were all super healthy, it’s all in the lap of the gods, but I feel like I’ve not even given the poor sod a fair chance. This is the study - if you do have any knowledge about these things and can knock it our the water i would truly love you to! www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20180320/Mothere28099s-pre-pregnancy-waist-size-may-be-linked-to-childs-autism-risk.aspx

[Isadora2007]

There’s a book called Mind Over Mood that you can get off Amazon that is basically DIY CBT. Especially if youve done some CBT before- you’d be able to use the book yourself. It’s one many NHS therapists use.
Writing about your fears also may help. Wrote when you’re feeling anxious but also wrote when you’re feeling more positive. Write letters to yourself on your good days to reassure yourself these days will exist. Sometimes allowing yourself to explore your anxieties is helpful- so you’re worried about the waist study, you measure yours, it’s larger, okay... what if it’s correct?... well you have a % risk of Asd... okay so you have a child with asd... you know that isn’t even the worst thing ever... you worry you’d feel bad it was “your fault”... but you didn’t know about the study so it’s not really your fault- baby overweight women have neurotypical babies. Many slim mums have kids with asd....
You sound like a fab mummy already and a lovely person.
Best wishes to you 💐

[MirrorMirror21]

Why were you paying for CBT? I live in a very stretched, very tight CCG (I work for them too) and got a referral for prenatal anxiety/ depression within days. I'm sure you will too. It is absolutely classed as an emergency.

I was fatter than that, and I got drunk quite a few times before I found out I was pregnant (). This was a massive cause of anxiety for me but my 3yo is smashing all her milestones out the park, is learning to read and add up, is so sociable etc etc. Perfect kid. Don't worry. You've not put your baby at risk by being a few pounds overweight. That's Dr Google scaring you. If you were thinking straight, you'd realise it was nonsense. That's why you didn't think of it prior to conceiving. It's your head that's making it a big deal.

Did your anxiety disappear after you had had DC1? If so, try and focus on that. This will go too. But CBT saved mine and unborn DDs life, I honestly believe that. So get your referral, take meds if you need to.. I don't know much about which ones are safe but if a doctor tells you something is safe to take, believe them. They honestly wouldn't say it if it wasn't true.

You sound like a lovely mum and both your DC will be/ are going to be so lucky to have you as theirs.

Be strong for them

[Saturdaygap]

And NHS proper CBT has been a completely different experience than private CBT for me. So much better, so do pursue it if you can, OP.

And I have a kid with asd, and know something about stats. The amount of horseshit (statistically) that is published in medical journals just never fails to amaze me and my economist chums. Never mind the shit that gets published about the "cause" of asd.

I don't think it's my fault for having low vit d for a part of my pregnancy, not my fault for my waters going early and baby getting infection, not my fault for marrying someone with a crazy amount of engineer antecedents, not my fault for breathing polluted air while pregnant, not my fault for being someone who knows about stats either! I could go on endlessly... And you don't think I'm a bad mother for any of that do you? Of course you don't. So be as reasonable with yourself as you are with me!

[rarelythere]

Op the study you linked to found a 0.76% rate of autism overall. So the "increase" they suggest might be linked to waist circumference is a fraction of a percent. They also say that many other studies have not linked autism to obesity. Furthermore, correlation isn't causation, so just because they found that a fraction of a fraction of people had children with autism and also had increased waist size, does not mean that increased waist size causes autism. I could go on - but in summary, I really think it's a very flimsy study, and it's simply not possible to draw any conclusion that you have caused or even have increased the already very minuscule chance of your baby having autism. Hope that helps!

[Loandbeholdagain]

I had really terrible anxiety during my first pregnancy that basically meant I couldn’t function and spent hours and hours convinced I had hurt my baby or he would be stillborn due to my actions or not actions. Now I can see that the anxiety was a thing all by itself and the specific detail of the potential harm (that I obessessed over) was not worth spending time on. I had 12 scans during my pregnancy. I felt better for about 5-6 hours after each one and then felt awful again.

I didn’t get it all with my second child.

So you weren’t irresponsible. I’m so sorry you are going through this. In hindsight, it robbed me of so much the first time around and I so wish I had got help. I would have been very against taking medication but I think actually that would have been the right course of action.

[BillyJoel]

Op , I have been massively overweight with 3 babies and they are all now lovely well adjusted intelligent young ladies. You are doing so well caring about your baby already so you know you can do this and be a good mum with the help you are going to get.

[ShovingLeopard]

I too remember you from your last pregnancy, and I am thrilled you got to the end and got your DC. I have also suffered severe anxiety, and I know what an utter bastard it can be

All the pps recommending you seek help are right, there is good help and support available to you. CBT works well for lots of people. Reading your post about why you are concerned makes me wonder if you have an over-inflated sense of guilt? This may be related to something that happened to you in the past. If so, therapy can help you with this.

If it's a conscious memory, CBT is a good way of working with it. If you are unsure why you feel like this, you may find it beneficial to do some work on your past. In that case, a different type of therapy may be more helpful. Have you ever tried hypnotherapy other than hypnobirthing?

Of course, if I am way off beam, then ignore me.

[cheerfullysleepless]

Thanks everyon for posting. To answer a few questions, I paid for cbt because all the hospital was able to offer me last time was monthly sessions with a lovely counsellor and we were desperate. Maybe the nhs does things differently now I don’t know and I’m going to find out as soon as I can next week, am waiting to hear back on my referral. Secondly, Saturdaygap, I think anyone suggesting you caused anything like that would be daft and I bet your kid is fantastic, all the kids I teach are and the ones with asd have an honesty and directness that makes them even more so. As for the correlation not causation business and tiny percentages etc etc I wish wish wish wish my mind would heed that. I can’t tell you how much. Last time a doctor meaning to tell me that it was impossible had harmed my baby with what had done told me would be more likely I would be in a traffic accident than have harmed him. I spent days googling and evaluating traffic data. I have no stats background and no ability to evaluate risk when I am like this. I feel three things almost equally. 1. Grossly irresponsible and sad for not shutting down any options for me to find extra fears this time. 2. Deserpate to find a way to be convinced by some sort of biology eg told cytokines (what are they? I don’t know. This is how mad I am) don’t cross the placenta or that I can lose weight safely first trimester and eliminate the risk, because my dh says he understands if we terminate but that he can’t do this again and that would be it 3. (Most of all and overwhelmingly) terrified of how I know I can and most likely will become re suicidal, sobbing and shaking much of the day, unable to function and above all all all the impact this would have on my wonderful son. I tried so hard to get help last time, we spent money we didn’t have trying everything, it was never ever really helpful and often made it worse as the mental health service in my borough was delivered by untrained volunteers. I’ve agreed with my dh to try an appointment with the service ASAP to try to feel better but am aware every day that this baby is growing and will find it harder and harder to terminate it. I feel trapped and terrified and full of self loathing. I’m so sorry. I want to be cheery and say all is well because you’ve all tried so kindly and don’t know me but I can’t, I’m just desoerate to protect my son.

[Canwejustrelaxnow]

Oh sleepless. I think you, dh and the gp need to have a full and frank discussion about whether it is safe for you to go ahead with this pregnancy, what assistance they can offer you if you do, and if you don't, how you would feel about having your family already complete. Another 8 months of shaking and thinking of suicide is a real issue. I think it sounds like you would have to take the sertraline. I hope you get some good support.

[Saturdaygap]

Oh, cheerfully. Don't feel bad about being anxious, sweetheart. You're not well. It's an illness. Don't feel guilty about the anxiety too.

That paper strikes me as the usual research paper fodder that is cheap to produce (uses preexisting data sets) and makes a lot of fashionable assumptions. Inflammation is a great go at the moment - they don't prove it at all. Where's the blood tests for these women producing autistic babies showing inflammation? Why can't we have a prenatal diagnostic test for autism based on these inflammation markers? Oh, because it's just a guess. That is what they're doing.

So let's believe that women with large tummies are more likely (according to them, and I haven't looked at the real paper so I can't tell you if their stats are also shit) to have babies diagnosed with autism.

I had a non economist colleague who showed us the correlation between having assets and loads of great outcomes, like university attendance, low criminality etc. He thought it was causation and suggested that giving everyone a wodge of cash at 17 would result in amazing academic attainment. He didn't understand that he was missing the independent explanatory variable: at a guess, being middle class and having super invested parents who can afford assets and good schools.

Similarly, having a big tummy is unlikely to be an independent explanatory variable. It might be telling you about poverty, nutrition, socio-economic status, and thus undiagnosed neuro diversity in the parents. It might not, but it's meaningless unless we are actually looking for the independent explanatory variable. And adjusting for things like genetic history, which does appear to have a link to autism. Does that make sense?

[Microwavey]

I remember your posts from your last pregnancy and have thought of you often, wondering how your were. I'm really sorry it's happening again.

I had antenatal anxiety and depression in a pregnancy that ended in miscarriage and think I may have mentioned it when I replied last time (different username now). It was hell and I pretty much did have a breakdown afterwards from a combination of guilt for wishing the pregnancy was over and the depression continuing. Everyone thought I was anxious and depressed because of the miscarriage but it was initially a relief to lose the baby... Until the anxiety and depression returned and consumed me. I was off work for quite a while.

From what I remember of your posts last time, even if you were convinced of the absence of risk about this waistline issue you will likely latch onto another risk or health issue/thing to develop guilt about. It's not about the facts or absence of facts, because it's a mental illness. Are you able to apply any of the cbt strategies you learnt last time? Eg challenging "should" statements, following beliefs through to their crazy conclusions to see them for what they are, labelling and challenging the various cognitive distortions. I imagine you'd have to be really active in doing this throughout the day, every day, given how this affects you. It's hard work but worth trying to be super super active in challenging your thoughts because you know in your rational mind that they are not a representation of reality.

I know it's hell, but my personal experience of the horrendous aftermath of my anxiety-ridden pregnancy makes me think it's worth doing everything you can to hold on to the pregnancy at least for now if the suicidal thoughts can be held at arm's length.

[cheerfullysleepless]

You’re all so so kind, thank you. Got to just hang o for the session next week with husband and mental health professional. Trying CBT like mad but the anxiety keeps coming up with answers. The most recent being on the socio economic point that husband and I both from pretty working class backgrounds and despite “middle class” jobs have pretty non middle class diets (think more fish fingers than risotto). The only thing that’s given me comfort is my dh this morning who said whatever happens the priority is me: son will grow up in a noisy and loving home with or without siblings and he would rather have a happy me and one kid than a broken me and two. Also said if didn’t look like could get effective help soon then could find a way to basically view it as medically necessary rather than a choice in order to prevent deterioration etc. Want to find a way forward that isn’t that but did help with the guilt.

[sourpatchkid]

I agree with others that the paper isn't good quality. It's also worth noting the tiny percentage that did have autism (so from their stats you're 99.25% likely to not have a child with ASD). Your fish finger diet means nothing, I mostly ate donuts (pre and post pregnancy!) here is the truth - no pregnancy is perfect. Its just not possible. You've done nothing wrong.

Anxiety is a fucker though, it's really good at arguing and really good at making itself seem logical even when it isnt. Sometimes arguing with the thoughts won't help because it will just spiral. Have you tried mindfulness or any other form of therapy?

Sending much love to you.