Please help with choosing a hospital, private or Queen Charlottes

[Londonmummy05]

Hello all,
I'm 10 weeks pregnant and I'm driving myself crazy trying to decide on a hospital! I initially went to look at the 3 main private hospitals. I wasn't too keen on the Portland, i liked the Lindo wing at St Marys but would prefer a mid wife led birth (they only have consultant led) I loved St john and St elizabeth and was planning on going there but my Dh's bestfriend has worked in Obstetrics for the past year and thinks I should definetely go somewhere that has NHS facilities but still has a private ward- like Queen Charlottes. She said that even though only a small percentage of births go wrong if you need to be moved it can take up to 24hours to find a bed for you! John and lizzies doesn't have a special care unit so I am now considering QC. Has anyone used their private ward? What's it like? Please help need to decide soon Thanks alice

sleeplessmum that sounds like a great experience. I just have the horrors of private hospitals. I wonder how well they would have dealt with for eg my 10 litre post partum haemmorage and near death? C&W had 2 top surgeons there in no time who worked for 9 hours to save me, if they hadn't been there quickly I don't think I would be here now I think it's better to be safe than sorry myself - sorry for the horror story, now you know where I get my name

So sorry to hear your awful story cd and completely understand your feelings but in the case of St John and LIzzies it is actually housed in a fully functional hospital albeit withouth Neonatal unit, i guess its a choice we all make personally.

Hope you went on to have a better experience though !!

And do think about doulas, who are MUCH cheaper.

I have to say that my first birth was under one of the King's Hospital community teams who delivered independent-style care on the NHS. And then when everything went pear-shaped nine medical personnel rushed me to theatre to get the baby out. Sure, I whinge about it all, especially the state of the hospital afterwards, but as DP pointed out you couldn't fault them when push came, as it were, to shove.

Maternity services in the UK may be underfunded and often understaffed, and god knows we share our horror stories on MN, but isn't it interesting how many of us are saying Go NHS now!

Yes MI, I have nothing nice to say about the aftercare at C&W, it was horrific in fact. But they were there when I needed them and the care before was excellent too.

sleeplessmum but it isn't attached to an NHS hospital is it? (or am I wrong, isn't it next to the wellington?) That's the point. The requirement for private hospitals as regards cover is that a RMO (responsible medical officer) is on duty. This could be someone who has just qualified or has very little experience for eg a mate of mine recently went back to medicine after a 10 year gap and within a week he was an RMO!
There are no crash facilities and there do not have to be surgeons on site. I wouldn't have fancied my chances being moved via ambulance with fountains of blood spurting all over the place. If you have to go private I would really advise the private wing of an NHS hospital.

As an NHS nurse (and therefore I will accept biased!) all I see of private patients is for who it has gone wrong. A patient rushed to us because the private hospital's life support machine wasn't working (!). Patients with highly complex surgical needs paying the smae price for sitting in an NHS hospital because their private hospital dosen't 'do' that surgery, or indeed, aftercare. And then these patients, if found to have any kind of infection are refused by private hospital to go back. I cannot recall any of the private patients whom I used to care for in a specialist surgical setting being happy with the care they recieved by their private hospital. . As I am a nurse and not a midwife I would be really fascinated what Mear's opinion is on this topic!

Hello ladies thanks again for all your varied thoughts and experiences.
Hi Aloha- When i mentioned going for the "best option" I meant he best option for me I wasn't implying that one was beeter than the other. It is an awful lot of money but I would much rather sacrifice a holiday for the comfort issue but that's just my way of thinking and I have been known to be rather precious and a bit of a drama queen Obviously if i didn't have the resources to go for a private birth I would fully truat the NHS and as we've heard from many people it has a very high standard of care. I am trying to reash a compromise where I could have a private birth at an NHS hospital but I phoned QC today and they cost the same as all the other private hospitals as you have to get a consultant. You can ask for an amenity room onthe day of the birth but it's not guaranteed.

Earlybird- Thanks Guy Thorpe-beeston was on my list and my GP said he was great, so I;llgive him a call too.

sleeplessmum2be- So sorry to hear about your father. Thanks you so much for your account of your experience at john and Lizzies. I have been on the tour and I loved the fact that they encouraged your partner to stay in the bed with you so it wouldn't be so different when you got home with the baby and stuff. My friend had a mid wife led delivery but had Dr yehudi Gordon as her consultant and said he was great.
I have to go now, I'm at my parents house using their PC DH took our laptop away with him! So I won't be able to read anymore posts until tommorow but you've all been amazing and it really is cool to hear all the different responses I'll keep you all posted.
alice

Hi Londonmummy
As you said, you've had some great responses! I'm in the US so can't really suggest anything useful except that I had a wonderful birth - I suppose it would count as private as I think all hospitals here would. I put my money into hiring a doula - not cheap but worth every penny! I'm sure there must be some wonderful doulas in London, I had an amazing woman, she was 70 years old, French, and just fantastic. John & Lizzie's sounds AMAZING - if we're back in the UK I might have to get saving so I can deliver there! I also managed to get a midwife led birth (not easy over here) and would wholeheartedly recommend it over an OB/GYN - far superior IMO. If you are worried about your environment whilst birthing I would suggest looking into a home birth - does that appeal to you at all?? - I guess probably not if you're thinking about an epidural.
Good luck whatever you decide,
mit x

LondonMummy, have just logged on this evening. In asnwer to your question, Mr Teoh's fees include the scans that he does but he also refers patients to the Feotal Medical Centre, 137 Harley St, W1 where scans are about £100-£150, ie I had CVS and nuchal scan so that cost £400. Then 20wk and 30wk scan where they do detailed measurements and I think I paid £150 each. They do print out all the info and pass it on to Mr Teoh.
I was very very happy with Mr T, the Feotal Med Ctr and also the Lindo Wing.
I know it's pricey, its even more at the Portland because you get charged for every plaster, swab, injection, etc but it's up to you. Don't have any exp of other hospitals just know that St Johns & E goes for a natural birth in a big way which does sound wonderful.
Good luck!

Have you had the tour of Queen Charlotte's yet? Don't make your mind up until you have - I had dd at QC as an NHS patient and the facilities are great - the birth centre in particular is midwife led and supportive for more natural births.
The skilled midwife who attended me managed to move my baby's head into a better position so I ended up with a normal birth - my son (born 2 years previously at another hospital) was in the same original position and was delivered by section...so I have great faith in the skills and commitment to getting the 'best' birth for an individual mother at QC.

On the other hand, I don't know how big the private ward is at QC but the woman in the next bed to me in the post-natal ward (4 beds in a room) was complaining bitterly that she was a private patient and should be in a room (and she didn't have the lunch that she wanted)... the rooms were being occupied by mothers who had lost their babies so she couldn't have one (although I don't know if she realised that that was the reason).

If it's support for the birth (rather than nice meals afterwards) that you are looking for I can't see that you could do much better than QC (but I'd get a doula as well )

Probably butting in here but St Johns and elizabeth have recently been sued after and i heard taht they haaad settled several cases out of court.
Also not true taht if waters break the NHS will make you have Csection in 24 hours ,friend had waters break at 33 weeks and had monitoring for a week and then natural birth and beautiful dd,now my Goddaughter

If everything goes fine I'm sure St J's are fantastic. I know several people who have given birth there and they were very happy. I still wouldn't risk it

personally I would always go for a big teaching hospital, where there are just basically more eg anaesthetists if something should go wrong. if you can afford it, why not splash out? i think the main weakness of the nhs system is poor post-natal care because of the ratios of women:midwives on the wards, things like breastfeeding support often get neglected.

Another wonderful wonderful experience at John and Lizzies - even thiough I didn't get any of their supposedly great ante-natal care.
I had serious complications, so had antenatal care at Royal London NHS (they actually have better scanning equpment than J&L)then transferred under same consultant (Mr Jo Aquilina - a wonderful man) to J&L for my c-section and post-natal.
NHS ante-natal care is adequate. Community midwifes are a better option than hospital - more of an individual relationship and far less waiting, But it still isn't as good as private. NHS is brilliant ante-natally if you have problmes, but you will just be transferred.
Post-natally, NHS is crap, especially if you have to stay in hospital. I know that my recovery this time round was so much quicker because I had the care of the lovely midwifes at J&L.
Don't let the lack of a SCBU put you off. They are perfectly able to deal with your medical emergencies, it's just you babies they can't do. And because of that, if you go into labour or need to be delivered before 37 weeks, they will not even consider doing it at J&L, but will send you to St. Mary's, where you will be treated just as quickly as anyone else. And I can't back this up with figures, but I think it's fairly rare that a baby who is born after 37 weeks, after a no complications pregnancy, would need SCBU.
One of the best things about J&L (IMO)is that you will defiantely not have a complicated birth - they feel that if things aren't going well, it's far better to go to a c-section at an early stage, than to struggle on for days and eventually have to have a c-section after trying syntocin, ventouse etc.

If you can affordit, I would definately go for J&L

Thanks again ladies, i need to dash so won't reply to you all seperatly. Prufrock I called J&L yesterday to see if I could just have my birth and post natal there and have the scans and stuff on the NHS they said this was fine, but when you did this did they still charge you for the mid-wife antenatal fee or just for the labour and room stay?
I thought this would be a good compromise as the scans on the NHS will be great I'm sure. after speaking to the lady yesterday I really want to have my baby there, I'm not so fussed about having a natural birth- it would be nice but, as everyone had pointed out,very unrealistic but I do want the intimacy that I feel J & L has.

Alternatively I may hire a doula as suggested by Mit and I will take a tour of QC (thanks Bluebear) and thanks chicpea for letting me know about the Lindo. I'm going to visit a friend of mine now who's just had a baby so I'll see what she says too Thanks girls
Alice

totally agree with sobernow, nhs is terrific in a crisis (not that you want to have one), and private care more geared up to minor stuff.

unfortunately, unlike prufrock, I would let the lack of a SCBU put me off (not that I've ever needed one). If they could look after me (in all eventualities) but not my baby, I would rather opt for something else. horses for courses.

I'm not saying pregnancy/birth has to always be a medical event, just reflecting that I had two v uncomplicated pregnancies and two births with different reasons for c/s - the second one a real white-knuckle ride, even though we were trying for a vbac.

Just came back from my friends, she went to West Middelesex ( where I was born ) but that's too far for me, she said it was great if anyones was considering it, but then she had to have her appendix out and moved to a private hospital becasue the care was awful.

thanks for your message Bundle, I have to agree with Prufrockto a certain extent as after reading over the John and lizzies emergency booklet I see where she's coming from. J&L's only take 'low risk' ladies and this decreases the chance of complications greatly and if you do get High blood [ressure for example in the mideele of your pregnancy you'll have the birth at St Mary's. They have a respirator if the baby needs it and this is apparantly the most common problem for babies but out of the 450 births they have a year only 2 of them are likely to have to transfered and the same can happen on the NHS also and you will still need to wait for a bed if need be.

I was born at West Middx too but sorry, have no suggestions for on account I haven't had a baby yet

no suggestions for you that should read!

Don't worry Delgirl I never proof read my messages and only read my hundreds of mistakes after!

londonmummy, but i had low risk pregnancies, no high bp, no pre eclampsia, and aimed for a vbac after my first c/s with no reason to believe that wouldn't happen. wouldn't have been without the fantastic staff at the whittington hospital when I needed them, even a short journey by ambulance could have been crucial for me and dd2.

Hi Bundle, what's a VBAC- sorry to sound silly but new to all this! By the way you mentioned post natal care on the NHS in one of your posts, you're so right my DH's GP said that he'd recommend having the birth on the NHS but to pay for the post natal stiff as this is where it's lacking.

Agree with CD, would only consider going private if it was a private wing within an NHS Hopital.

I'm afraid I do tend to think, "OK, worst case scenario, where would I NEED to be", but our views are borne out of our experiences and those around us.

ps VBAC is a vaginal birth after a caesarean.

I have my bill in front of me (not that I had to pay it - thank God for insurance) and it came in at £4,800. I'm not sure exactly how its calculated, but I think you pay for the birth (which includes all the midwife appointments, yoga classes etc, the birth and one night in hospital) and then its £800 for each extra night. The birth is about £2,000 - mine was £2440 as it was a c-section (would have been even more if it hadn't been medically necessary) If you have a consultant led birth (not IMO necessary unless you get complications) you have to pay seperately for the consultants fees. Scans/tests etc can add up. If the midwie does a normal urine dip, I don't think they charge you, but if they have to send it off for analysis (if you have protien init, or they suspect and infection) it is about £40, about the same for blood tests.

Why don't you call Simone (0207 806 4090) - she's the adminstrator for the birth unit and a really nicegirl who honestly won't mind going through all of the fee structure with you.

More on the safety aspect - I think you have to have trust in your professionals, and I found it a lot easier to trust J&L's than midwifes from the NHS, when I didn't see the same one twice to start with (honourable exception here for one NHS midwife in the Mfau @ Royal London who I saw every week for the second half and was amazingly brilliant). I trusted her, and my consultant, to tell em whether it was safe for me to go to the private hospital or whether I needed to be in the NHS. And regarding transfers etc in the case of an unexpected emergency during teh birth, J&L is beter equipped than the majority of midwife led birth centres, or your own home, and nobody says that they are less valid options for giving birth because of the safety aspects.

I've had two babaies. For my first I spent 4 weeks in hospital before, then 1 week during and afterwards. It was the most hellish time of my life. Yes I knew I was being well looked after medically (the first day I was taken in I got to see 4 different consultants in different specialities and had 3 seperate scans to work out what was wrong with me), but pyschologically it was torture. It's a sad fact taht NHS midwifes, particularly on ante and post natal wards, do not have the capacity to give the one on one care that I'm sure they would like to give, and providing emotional support comes a very poor second to the essential things that they have to do.
For my scond I again spent 3 days in hospital antenatally, spent the whole of that time trying to get out and finally got released when my consultant got back from holiday and was very cross to find his reg had needlessly admitted me. It made me even more determnined not to go back in. So off I wnet to J&L, and I actually enjoyed my surgery and was able to properly concentrate on my new baby, rather than on things like not steping in other peoples piss when I went to the loo.