Moxibustion

[Claire967]

Hi Everyone,

I am new to mumsnet and was wondering if any of you could offer me some advice.

I am 37weeks pregnant and have just found out the baby is breech!! They tried to turn the baby but couldnt get them out my pelvis... devastated as I am now booked in for a c-section.

The consultant had mentioned that moxibustion has been proven to help them the baby however it's quite expensive. Has this worked for you in the past?

Any tips on how to topple this baby around? I will continue with the pelvic tilts and have been on my hands and knees literally scrubbing floors.

Happy to have the section if need be just nervous about the lengthy recover.

'Devastated' is a bit inflammatory.

And whilst with a c section you'll be recovering from a serious operation there's no guarantees about what a vaginal birth would be like, so try not to stress about which you end up having.

Many of my friends babies flipped in the last few weeks without them doing anything at all.

First of all, don't panic! The baby still could turn! I'm sure everyone's been recommending it but have you checked out spinningbabies.com? Also, sounds daft, but my OB recommended lots of handstands in the swimming pool!

I wouldn’t allow a consultant who believed in Moxibustion anywhere near me .... 🦆 🦆are you sure they’re even qualified ??

I’d also not allow a turn (ECV) either - elcs is less risky imo.

A Cochrane review recently found that no excercise or moves you do will help positioning, so that’s fairly pointless although they did note a reduction in back pain when doing some of the excercise.

There’s still time for baby to turn. If not you can either attempt a vaginal breech birth if the baby is a ‘bum first’ breech or go for an elcs.

There is no need to be devastated
The goal of birth is to get the baby out with minimum damage to you or it.

I’m really surprised that a consultant has suggested Moxibustion. Is this in the UK? I don’t think there is any good evidence that burning herbs near your feet will turn a breech baby. You could try some postural techniques, but you may have to accept a section is the best way forward.

I don’t think there is any good evidence that burning herbs near your feet will turn a breech baby.

You would be completely correct in that assertion.
I wouldnt want a consultant who peddled woo in charge of my care.

I'm having a c-section on Friday and I'm not "devastated" as it means my baby will be arriving safely, so have my very first ever grip on that count, and on the count of 'maxibustion' have a

.... welcome to mumsnet.

Thanks everyone.

I know I shouldn't be but I am devastated. I would have liked the opportunity of a vaginal birth but like you say it's not necessarily guaranteed to end up that way anyway. Whatever is best for baby it ultimately is the deciding factor and right now that is a c-section.

Yes it was a UK consultant. Thinking I will just cancel the moxi appointment and let be what will be.

I will give the exercises a go in the run up though.

Thanks for your advice. All the best with your new little ones.

I know someone it worked for (I'm pretty sure she got it on the NHS)

The Cochrane report just says it may work but further studies are needed.

I would give it a go if you really don't want a section (I wouldn't either). You haven't got too much to lose and the money will seem insignificant pretty soon, especially if you do avoid a section.

Yeah, give moxibustion a go if you want to. It's often used alongside acupuncture which is increasingly accepted as a part of antenatal care for pain relief. Also, it can be very relaxing which might lead your baby to decide it's nearly go time and turn of their own account!

Oh my @Claire967 I am gobsmacked by a couple of the replies you've had!

My son was breech and I had 2 ECVs, but he didn't turn. I also followed lots of the spinning babies exercises and had moxibustion - none of which worked. I was supported in trying for a natural breech birth because like you I was also devastated at the thought of a section. So yes, you are allowed to be devastated. I totally understand how you are feeling. To have a vaginal birth option taken away from you can feel gutting and that's a natural feeling not one that should be dismissed. Yes you want your baby here safely and saying your devastated doesn't mean you don't.

Whilst I tried for a vaginal birth it did end up going to section and it was then that we discovered my baby's cord was so short he was stuck in his position.

I had other friends pregnant at the time and 3 of them had breech babies, mine was the only one that didn't turn. One friend did moxibustion and her baby turned after 2 sessions. One baby turned after an ECV and one of its own accord.

The fact people have said they wouldn't trust a consultant who recommended moxibustion is ridiculous. I think it's great that they are supporting you in trying to turn your baby. No harm will come of moxibustion and if anything it may help you to relax and in turn that may help your baby turn.

Ignore the negative comments and do what feels right for you.

Good luck!

You can't verbally smack down an expectant mother for being upset she can't have the birth she had hoped for!

Op, ignore the misery cuts and you certainly do NOT need a 'grip.

Wish you well.

My breech baby turned last minute, it can happen. That said, she ended up an emergency c section anyway, so these things happen (and it was fine, and I still had a VBAC afterwards). Are there any consultants in your hospital who could support a breech delivery? We'd been told there were, although they are quite strict on criteria, it has to be the 'right' breech.
Good luck, and hope that however it goes you have a lovely and safe birth and welcome to your new baby!

The fact people have said they wouldn't trust a consultant who recommended moxibustion is ridiculous

It’s not. They are recommending something that has no clinical evidence behind it. Because it’s harmless woo it’s accepted because there are no negative effects, but would you be happy with a consultant who recommended say a drug that had no clinical evidence? Or safety evidence? Or a procedure that was unlicensed but they thought it worked a bit on their sister’s mates cousin?

evidence based medicine is not an optional concept. I can’t licence a drug I’ve whipped up in the lab because ‘I’m pretty sure it worked on a mate of mine’ - drugs have to go through a process of evidence gathering (trials.)

A consultant saying ‘well it won’t hurt but there’s no evidence it works so really up to you’ is different to one ‘reccommending’ Something.

Moxibustion has no way of working. A number of babies will flip last minute and so there’s always someone who is convinced that what they were doing at the time was the cause, but it isnt. It’s just coincidence. There’s no evidence for acupuncture either.

Scientists aren’t precious about this shit. If you produce evidence that chanting homage to the lizard gods will have a clinical effect then Pfizer will be patenting it sooner than you can blink :)

Good luck with the birth op - baby could flip last minute and if they don’t, an elective C is generally a calm and safe option - you’ll be able to have immediate skin to skin and all that. Best of luck

I completely understand what you mean by the term 'devastated' as you had a vision/plan in your head and that's all changed very suddenly in a situation that has probably made you feel like you have lost control somewhat.
I am sure once you are holding your baby in your arms that feeling would disappear but right now that's how you feel and it's ok to say so.
Whilst the evidence regarding moxibustion is inconclusive I personally would be delighted to have such an open minded consultant who was prepared to consider/suggest other options.
As far as I am aware there are no risks associated with it so I think I would personally be in the "it's got to be worth a try" camp and just give it a go. I also know friends who have had reflexology to try and encourage baby to turn, there are also some pregnancy yoga positions that can help but unless you have been doing in pregnancy already now might not be the time to start (I am sure a midwife can advise).
Good luck, it is definitely still possible for the baby to turn and they will scan you on the morning of the CS to check before doing anything else.

I'm sorry but it is ridiculous to not trust a consultant who has suggested it. You don't know what they've said for definite and I am sure OP wasn't told that it would be a guarantee for turning their baby. If she had I don't think she'd be asking the question she'd just go and do it because she had been told it would definitely work. If OP is emotionally upset about the thought of a section, sometimes feeling like you are doing all you can to change that situation actually has a positive impact on the mothers wellbeing. This is from someone who has been in the exact same position as OP. I tried everything I could to turn my baby and then when it came to it felt an inner sense of satisfaction that I had, which made the whole experience easier to accept.

No one is saying that moxibustion will definitely turn a baby and I'm sure the consultant didn't either, but if trying it will make OP feel better then I personally think that's a great thing. I don't think an anxious mother to be who is facing the prospect of a Section, which she is concerned about needs to be told not to trust her consultant by people who have neither met the consultant or OP and are basing their strong comments on a sentence on mumsnet!

AKP79.. I couldn't agree with you more.

Alternative options were encouraging and definitely helped lift my mood.

I fully understood that nothing was set in stone, I also set my own expectations that my birth plan would possibly change however to change so drastically in one afternoon was quite upsetting.

I had built myself up for this phenomenal natural experience which I might never get to experience depending on how my surgery goes. (My sister cant have a natural birth after baby 1 as the surgeon nicked her womb).

Bum is down however my consultant was against the idea of natural birth due to the risks and as this is my first there is no history to review to determine whether or not an assisted breech delivery would be safe. So their recommendation would be ELCS.

Birth regardless of the delivery is birth, its my story and experience and devastated is how I feel. I have been graced with the gift of carrying a baby and couldn't more thankful for this experience alone.

I hope baby turns..I will do my damnedest trying .. ha.

If Mumsnet has taught anything today, it's that positivity matters.

Thanks again everyone for your support and kind words.

My friend turned her breech baby by doing handstands in the deep end of the swimming pool!! It's not something I've done in the past 20 years so not sure I'd be doing it myself, but it's an idea. I know the section seems scary, but my elective section was a dream compared to my "natural" birth.

I'm so sorry yes I agree my post was unnecessarily harsh, I do apologise.

I hope your baby manages to turn around and you get the birth you wish for, although so long as they come out safely, a c-section is honestly not the end of the world. Fingers crossed for you.