Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

To have the whooping cough vaccine?

92 replies

cherryontopp · 20/12/2017 10:51

Im 32+5 and still havent decided whether i want the vaccine.

When I've researched into it, theres a hell of a lot cases where they have healthy pregancnies and the baby has stopped growing within days of having the jab.

Its took me 3 years to conceive and itneas through IVF. To say im anxious about anything happening to the baby would be an understatement.
I know if a baby does get whooping cough it can be dangerous.

I really dont know what to do Sad

OP posts:
Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
Hugepeppapigfan · 20/12/2017 23:47

I didn’t have it because I was anxious like you. I was postponing it actually but had a prem baby anyway. If I had had the vaccine I’m sure I would have blamed it for the early birth. Lots of these stories are coincidences like this I am sure. My baby was born in summer and my area did not have high reported levels of whooping cough (which is why I was postponing the vaccine). Winter baby and an increased incidence of whooping cough would have been a different story.

peachesarenom · 21/12/2017 00:16

Have you watched the video of it yet?

Namechanger2735 · 21/12/2017 01:20

Sorry to add another question to the mix. Do you need the vaccine with every pregnancy? Or does it last a while? My DD is only 16 months old and I'm 31 weeks pregnant so will the jab I got when pregnant with her still cover me and this baby?

PurpleFishCakes · 21/12/2017 02:26

My baby had whooping cough. Diagnosed two weeks before his first vaccination was due.

Two weeks after he was born the vaccination started to be offered to pregnant women.

It is horrific.

There is a very good reason the vaccination is provided. As others have said before me... do not believe anecdotal evidence in the internet over evidence based research.

How anyone could put their tiny baby at risk is frightening.

Sidge · 21/12/2017 07:26

Namechanger you should have it in each pregnancy. The jab is primarily for the baby’s benefit, it stimulates antibodies that then pass across the placenta, so giving it some protection against whooping cough until it can have its own jabs.

Ideally given before 32 weeks as it takes a couple of weeks to have maximum effect, and having it then means baby is protected even if born early. But you can have it at any stage in pregnancy and even after delivery to reduce transmission (obviously the baby doesn’t benefit quite as much then).

cherryontopp · 21/12/2017 14:42

I have decided to get it. I have it booked in on 3rd jan. Ill be 34 weeks.

There is a study where they found children who have whooping cough, a lot were fully vaccinated. Theres no saying if people do get the jab, the baby won't get it. Its a prevention, not a cure.
articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/07/08/whooping-cough-outbreak.aspx

OP posts:
Lillylollylandy · 21/12/2017 14:58

OP - that article you’ve just linked to is from a bloke who is in partnership with an anti-vaccination group.

He refers to the CDC’s research on pertussis and then seems to cherry pick. The full CDC page is here: www.cdc.gov/pertussis/about/faqs.html

QueenAravisOfArchenland · 21/12/2017 14:58

cherry, that article comes from an "alternative health" website which is keen on essential oils etc. It's not a credible source.

Here is the CDC on the pertussis vaccine: www.cdc.gov/pertussis/about/faqs.html It protects well for two years, then protection wanes over time. However, if you get it after vaccination it is generally milder and less likely to be life threatening.

The critical thing is to protect the neonate in its first 8 weeks of life when whooping cough can easily kill it. That is what the vaccine in pregnancy is about.

taytopotato · 21/12/2017 15:55

Hi OP, Flowers

I almost didn't have the whooping cough vaccine on my first pregnancy but did it in the end (34 weeks). Then I saw Light for Riley here on mumsnet www.facebook.com/lightforriley/videos/1538734389770670/
I'm now pregnant again and had it.

This is the research linked in the Mercola article www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24961836
The cohort in this study are children from 5-15 years old. Not babies.
I have access to the BMJ and below are several responses about the article

1. Either detection of IgM antibodies or a rising titres of IgG (on two or more occasions) indicates a recent infection

In the article1, under the Caption Strength and limitations of the study, 2nd sentence says-
Oral fluid samples from more than 90% of children were suitable for analysis, and we used oral fluid anti-pertussis toxin IgG titres of 70aU or above to indicate evidence of recent pertussis infection.

"My query is that IgG alone means an old infection and not the recent one. Recent infection is either IgM detected or rising titres of IgG and we cannot infer it from just one reading of IgG."

Neeru Gupta
Scientist
No competing interest

2. Paediatricians and General Practitioners who care for school age children presenting with a persistent cough, will welcome the article by Wang et al 1 as it provides evidence in support of introducing an adolescent pertussis booster vaccination. Whilst previous articles have confirmed a sustained increase in the incidence of pertussis among older children,2 this is the first article which has addressed the inclusion of an adolescent booster vaccination within the UK immunisation schedule. There has already been the introduction of such a scheme in several countries, including Australia, Canada, France, Germany and the United States. 3 Furthermore, the World Health Organisation has recognised the potential cost effectiveness and reduction in incidence within this target group.4

Although the paper had a number of strengths, we felt that the study focussed upon one area of the UK, and it may not reflect a fair representation of children from different social economic backgrounds and the study period of two years duration, may not allow for full evaluation of seasonal and annual variability often associated with respiratory symptoms. We were also concerned that one might expect a larger number of patients presenting to primary care with chronic cough over a two-year period, so how representative of the population was this cohort and how generalisable are the results?

Ultimately the paper does show a shows a sharp increase in the risk of pertussis seven years after receipt of the preschool pertussis booster vaccination. Of concern, 20% (95% confidence interval 16-25%) of children who had been fully vaccinated had evidence of recent pertussis infection. Moreover, this risk was more than three times higher in children who had received the preschool vaccination seven years or more previously. Even with the above limitations these results do support consideration of the need for an adolescent pertussis booster vaccination in the UK.

Further research is clearly required to establish the clinical and cost effectiveness of an adolescent vaccination program but it needs to be representative of the general population of the UK.

Dr. Katie Greenwood
Paediatric Trainee

Dr Valerie Rogers
Consultant Paediatrician

Dr Colin Powell
Senior Lecturer in Child Health

Kohi36 · 21/12/2017 16:07

This vaccine which is actually a combination of 3 vaccines (tDap) has never been studied for safety or efficacy in pregnant women. Read the vaccine insert. It’s all there . I’m a high risk pregnancy due to an autoimmune conditons and a previous premature birth. Currently 38 weeks. I didnt get these vaccines as I know they would cause damage to me and my unborn baby. I’ve also natural immunity to the whooping cough from when I got it when I was a baby plus I will be breastfeeding. People who do their research don’t get these vaccines in pregnancy. Boost your immune system. Eat well. Focus on your health and building a strong immune system in your baby. Best of luck

Kittypillar · 21/12/2017 16:11

OP, really relieved to hear that you're now booked to get it. The article you shared is heavily biased and from an "alternative health" website and written by someone who is heavily involved in antivac campaign. Lillylollylandy and QueenAravisOfArchenland are absolutely right and I'm honestly incredulous by how brazen and half-baked that article is. I understand why you might feel scared if you read that but when you do research, please do try to be mindful of the sources and validity of said reading and the research behind it. It's important.

dinosaurkisses · 21/12/2017 16:24

Kohi, just because you have already had whooping cough doesn't mean you're immune and your child won't inherit any immunities against the disease through your breast milk- five seconds on Google can tell you that, but here's the CDC confirming it.

www.cdc.gov/pertussis/about/faqs.html

It's one thing to make your own decision for yourself, but please don't guide the OP to do the same thing by misinforming her.

Lillylollylandy · 21/12/2017 16:26

@Kohi36 I did my research. I have also breastfed 3 babies for over a year each. I still got the vaccine each time because I wasn’t prepared to risk my babies’ lives.

peachesarenom · 21/12/2017 16:29

@cherryontopp I'm really pleased you've booked it in!

Kittypillar · 21/12/2017 16:33

Kohi36, MHRA has been monitoring safety of the vaccine in pregnancy for over 5 years in the UK and actually there has been a study -it was with 20,000 women vaccinated with Repevax andliterally zilch evidence of risks to pregnancy or pregnancy outcome was found. I appreciate you may not have the vaccine if you are not medically able to (I'm also unfortunately in that situation, much as it frustrates me) but you should absolutely not be discouraging women from having this vaccine if they can. There has been absolutely no medically valid evidence found to prove anything you're saying about it being unsafe. None whatsoever. Nil. Nada. What you're saying has no basis in science or reality and is just plain stupid.

Eating well and boosting your immune system (whatever that means - do you suggest she takes cold showers every morning and pours echinacea in her orange juice?) is not going to protect your baby from whooping cough and I would find such a suggestion absolutely hilarious if it also wasn't so dangerous.

LookingForwardToChristmas · 21/12/2017 16:38

When I've researched into it, theres a hell of a lot cases where they have healthy pregancnies and the baby has stopped growing within days of having the jab.

This research is not the same as true, scientific research. It’s exactly the same as me needing to wee every day that I’ve had the whooping cough vaccination. It’s not cause and effect and the vaccine has had no bearing on my bladder; it’s what was going to happen anyway.

I appreciate you are anxious and glad you are now going to have the vaccination. Perhaps something to consider the next time you are worried about something like this is to look at the stats of the number of babies who die lad or had ongoing/life long problems because they had whooping cough.

Tedster77 · 21/12/2017 16:44

I’m so glad you’re getting it - I’ve had 2 newborn babies on my caseload get it and it’s been HORRIFIC. Both breastfed full term healthy babies before this happened. They don’t call it the 100 day cough for nothing. Watching them what looks like choke again and again.... the trauma for their parents has been huge. Both mums meant to get the vaccine but we’re so busy etc that they just never got round to it and didn’t ever imagine this happening.

Wormysquirmy · 21/12/2017 16:49

I'm a cautious vaccinator (get most vaccines but not the flu and I spread them out a bit).

I took the pertussis vaccine in pregnancy but not the flu vaccine.

I didn't think there was a lot of evidence against the pertussis vaccine in pregnancy whereas there did seem a real risk from pertussis. The vaccine appears to work.

MrsPicklesonSmythe · 21/12/2017 17:10

Apparently I had whooping cough as a baby because my mum was swayed to not give me the vaccine. I was very seriously ill by all accounts.

LookingForwardToChristmas · 21/12/2017 17:36

I had whooping cough as a child. I remember it well and it was horrific. It also seemed to weaken my lungs for years as I readily got bronchitis etc afterwards. I would do everything possible to prevent my child catching it.

Mumbofeet · 21/12/2017 18:18

I find it mindblowing that in this day and age people still think vaccines are dangerous. Everyone is over cautious in pregnancy (as in the NHS, prescribers etc) and rightly so, so if the NHS and all its researchers are saying vaccines are safe then they have been well tested! Your baby is at a MUCH higher risk of dying from whooping cough, or measles, or rubella or any of the other awful diseases out there, than they are at risk of being harmed by the vaccine. Vaccinations should be an opt out service not opt in, unless there's a medical reason why you or your baby can't have them. And if you are anti vaccine keep it to yourself and don't influence other people. Rant over Wink

Firstchild7 · 21/12/2017 18:42

I had it my baby is fine, its not a live vacation, and tbh your baby can die if they get hooping cough at a very young age but only u can make that call u have to way up the risk

Firstchild7 · 21/12/2017 18:45

Also the NHS wouldn't give it to u for free if they didn't think it was important for your baby

MissConductUS · 21/12/2017 19:11

This vaccine which is actually a combination of 3 vaccines (tDap) has never been studied for safety or efficacy in pregnant women. Read the vaccine insert. It’s all there

Not true.

www.cdc.gov/pertussis/pregnant/research.html

Immunogenicity and Effectiveness

Baxter R, Bartlett J, Fireman B, Lewis E, Klein NP. Effectiveness of vaccination during pregnancy to prevent infant pertussis. Pediatrics. 2017;139(5):pii: e20164091.

Winter K, Cherry JD, Harriman K. Effectiveness of prenatal Tdap vaccination on pertussis severity in infants. Clin Infect Dis. 2016;64(1):9–14.

Dabrera G, Amirthalingam G, Andrews N, et al. A case-control study to estimate the effectiveness of maternal pertussis vaccination in protecting newborn infants in England and Wales, 2012-2013. Clin Infect Dis. 2015;60(3):333–7.

Amirthalingam G, Andrews N, Campbell H, et al. Effectiveness of maternal pertussis vaccination in England: An observational study. Lancet. 2014;384(9953):1521–28.

Munoz FM, Bond NH, Maccato M, et al. Safety and immunogenicity of tetanus diphtheria and acellular pertussis (Tdap) immunization during pregnancy in mothers and infants: A randomized clinical trial. JAMA. 2014;311(17):1760–9.

Data on vaccine safety is primarily gathered retroactively through mandatory adverse event reporting, which has shown no specific risk to pregnant women or fetuses.

People who do their research don’t get these vaccines in pregnancy.

Actually it's people who don't know how to correctly interpret scientific research and don't trust their HCP's to advise them and who fall prey to conspiracy driven nonsense on the internet who don't get these vaccines in pregnancy, to the great detriment of their babies.

QueenAravisOfArchenland · 21/12/2017 20:26

What worries me is that a lot of people really don't understand the immune system and have the vague idea that if you are "healthy" and "eat well" your immune system will just sort of magically ward all illnesses off somehow.

That isn't how it works. Your immune system can only respond to and destroy pathogens (bacteria, viruses, foreign bodies) it has learned to recognise. The ONLY way you develop immunity to something is through exposure to it. That can be through catching it, or through a vaccine, which "teaches" your body to destroy it in future without the hassle of having the illness. The reason you can have multiple colds a year is because cold and flu viruses mutate constantly, so there are brand new strains your body doesn't "know" yet.

Yes, if you are run down or have a poor diet you may catch more colds because your immune response will be weaker or slower, giving mild viruses time to take hold. But the only thing that will let your immune system respond to the stuff we vaccinate against, in time to stop you getting it, is either the vaccine, or the illness. And given that the stuff we vaccinate against can leave you deaf, blind, sterile, disabled, or dead... Get the vaccine.