Ham/Cheese and other foods, paranoid about eating rant!

[LadyRenoir]

So this is my first pregnancy, hence perhaps the paranoia about food. I had one unpleasant event of food poisoning (albeit not too serious).
The thing that gets to me though is that I literally think I can hardly have anything, on top of not having great appetite. I went to a GP in my home country while on holiday, and they were super laid back about foods, pretty much told me to eat everything except for the usual moldy cheeses and raw meats and seafood.

Now I'm back in the UK- where I live permanently- and a lot of foods I like are either forbidden or when I check online you get things like "it's not advised pregnant women eat these because blahblahblah". Even with forgetting about rubbish websites that advise not to eat lets say pineapples as they can cause miscarriage, but forget to say you would need to eat 10 pineapples to get this reaction.

I stopped going out to restaurants with friends as I don't ant to risk another food poisoning, which is fine, as it actually helps me save some money, and avoids awkwardness like looking extremely picky when looking at the menu. But then my partner treated me to a macaroon the other day, I ate it and it and went like Noooo OMG, google please show me if I am allowed to eat those or not.

What are people's take on deli ham? I know NHS said it's fine to eat, but then we got a recall notice from our supermarket about ham contaminated with listeria- luckily we did not buy it- and since them I am now microwaving each slice before eating.

I love goat cheese and sheep cheese, and found a few that are made with pasteurised milk- surely they should be fine to eat?

I know to avoid too much sugar and fat, but recently had a nice sausage for lunch, and my coworker went on and on about salt and how unhealthy it is for the baby. But I just can't eat steamed vegetable all the time and can't find pleasure in eating chicken breast constantly. My GP here even told me not to eat cooked seafood because of mercury. Sayonara seafood pasta!

How do people maintain a healthy and balanced and VARIED diet? I know it's probably not that bad, but I just felt particularly whiny today after not feeling well, and there being nothing in the fridge I would like to eat :(

Hi LadyRenoir, I too have worried on and off about safe foods and I would really recommend the book "what to eat when you're pregnant" by Dr Rana Conway. It's a really sensible book and takes all the current advice from NHS/FSA and distills it into one place for you. It has lots of information about healthy balanced diets and it also has a brilliant A to Z glossary of all the foods you can think of, and tells you if they're safe or not. I carried it around in my handbag in the early days so I had a reference guide when faced with menus in restaurants. It's also good at dispelling the myths and getting to the facts. Good luck!!

If you follow the NHS guidance and apply common sense you'll be fine, honestly. Enjoy your sausages and macaroons!!

I think the thing with it is just to exercise caution. I haven't bought into the whole "thou must not..." nonsense because I think a lot of it comes down to common sense and risk. However, the one thing I absolutely haven't touched is pâté (not that I eat huge amounts anyway) because of vitamin A.

If you like raw fish, some places are fine for salmon (it just needs to have been frozen for 48 hours) - itsu say it's suitable for pregnant women on their website. It's just fish like tuna etc that are high in mercury, but one-two tins a week is fine if it takes your fancy. I know they advise against things like Parma ham and cured meats (absolute killer for me, and I haven't stuck to that at all) - I've just avoided deli counters and opted for pre-packaged - if you're concerned you can opt to have these cooked. If you like cheeses like Brie/Camembert just serve them piping hot, as this kills off the bacteria. And you're absolutely right about pasteurised foods - perfectly safe. I've also even eaten medium cooked fillet steak (only 3 times though) because I'm a rare/blue type of gal and cooking it all the way through is sacrilege - I believe most of the risk comes from bacteria/toxoplasmosis on the surface of the meat. Oh, and if you like runny eggs, the advice now is that as long as they carry the red lion mark then you're fine to eat the yolk runny.

I'm now nearly 38 weeks and baby is absolutely fine. I think it's very much a case of each to their own - people may well feel that I have taken unnecessary risks, but I say that's their excessive paranoia created by "guidelines".

The one caveat to all of what I have said is that I did wait until at least 12 weeks before I ate any of the above (perhaps down to the hideous hyperemesis I suffered up until about 20 weeks). And as I mentioned upfront - just exercise a bit of caution and only have things in moderation.

Best piece of advice I can give is to learn to not take people's remarks to heart. They can do what they like when it's their body, but they have no right to expect you to bend over backwards to heed their advice, however 'helpful' they think they are being!

I think in the UK there is a real desire to educate us and keep us safe, which is great, but sometimes the advice and guidelines are ridiculously over the top - Health and Safety anyone?

In my first pregnancy, and now in my second, I read the food advice and my first thought was 'but what do other countries recommend?' I looked online at some recommendations from other countries, including Japan and France, and I decided that the UK were being a bit too paranoid and restrictive in comparison.

My DH thinks the UK recommendations should be followed to the letter - balls to that, he can do that when he's pregnant!

In my first pregnancy, I ate prawns regularly, smoked salmon, slipped up many times on the cheese front (I always ate pasteurised, but ate blue cheeses and goats cheeses), and consumed too much caffeine from time to time. It just so happened that I could hardly stomach eating any foods, but I'd usually fancy those on the 'condemned' list. I lost a lot of weight in the first trimester and needed to eat something, so along came the 'naughty' foods and I didn't get ill once. My DD was born in great health too.

In my second pregnancy I'm using my own common sense and listening to what my body wants, not what a group of health officials believe I should or should not be consuming.

37 weeks here, and using NHS guidance (only! not random websites/bob's auntie) to decide. I don't eat cheeses like brie/camembert unless well cooked, runny eggs only if Lion marked, no uncooked cured meat, uncooked fish only if previously frozen. And one coffee a day, which is what I was having anyway.

*NHS guidance and common sense, that should have read

Amen, Argeles!! Pregnancy is enough of a challenge as it is without throwing all of this ridiculously over-cautious advice at women. If you want to follow it to the letter, fine - that's entirely your choice, but if you do have the occasional indulgence in one of the forbidden fruits, don't beat yourself up over it - enjoy it!!

Thank you ladies, that was very helpful.
I looked online at some recommendations from other countries, including Japan and France, and I decided that the UK were being a bit too paranoid and restrictive in comparison.

I know, my Japanese friends eat raw fish sushi and don't care, but it's also true that food standards in Japan are extremely high and a lot better than in the UK. Eating raw eggs is a standard and you can even find raw chicken sushi (not that I would ever want to try this).

I have just recently been able to start eating normally and not feeling sick when I smell foods (walking down the street used to be a nightmare, with fish and chips shops literally made me gag every time I was waiting for the bus). So I was excited to being able to eat, only to be told I can have big nothing, hehe.

Thank you for all the advice, it was so helpful ladies, it's so nice to read that I will not have to eat steamed poultry and broccoli for the next many monts to come! :)

Seriously, just exercise a good dose of common sense and you'll be fine. You can eat sausages. You can eat macarons. You don't need to microwave ham.

37 weeks here, and using NHS guidance (only! not random websites/bob's auntie)

^^this - don't just google different foods, there will always be a website or forum where a random person has said don't eat a particular food. Stick to the NHS list. Although I'm annoyed that the NHS hasn't adopted the Food Standards Agency's recommendation that you can eat runny eggs safely if they are British lion-stamped ones.

Be a little bit wary of searching MN posts as well, I saw a poster on here once saying that you shouldn't eat bacon!

I'm not sure that looking at guidelines for other countries is a great idea, I agree with OP that their food sourcing/standards might be different, also their digestion/immunity will be different if they typically eat a lot particular foods in that country that we don't eat so much of here (like real, non-supermarket sushi).

OP, think of it as good training for other aspects of pregnancy/parenthood. People weigh in with all sorts of "advice" whether you ask for it or not, and it's useful to start early with relying on your own sense of what's right or wrong without getting muddled up by what every other unqualified person may say.

Oh god don't. I think I must be on some sort of naughty list- like a PP the only stuff I have really fancied has been on the banned list. So far I have eaten runny eggs (from my own chickens- no lion stamp, naughty!), pate (small doses not a whole tub at a rim like I could so easily eat!), blue steak (I can't bring myself to eat it any other way), unpasteurised milk (I know, contentious, but it is from our own cows who are thoroughly vaccinated and withheld for the appropriate length of time after treatment, milk tests done regularly and all clear so I see no reason to assume I would now suddenly get ill after years of being absolutely fine).

I decided at some point around 6 weeks that eating nothing would be much more detrimental to me and to the baby than the potential calculated risks of eating things that the NHS says are banned.

Just follow one set of guidelines. Now that you are back in UK just follow NHS guidelines and add some common sense to it.
Otherwise you will go mad!! And especially dont look at the American guidelines, you are not allowed anything at all there, not sure how do women go through multiple pregnancies there. And also don't google per certain product/food (i.e. "Lavander oil in pregnancy"), because whatever you google there will most certainly be some "experts", forums, articles etc that will tell you are not adviced to use it/eat it.
I was googled everything in my first pregnancy and all you get is paranoia.
Now i just use common sense and and basic guidelines, and life is so much easier

I get that some things are banned and some of them, I am not that much into anyway- f.ex. I have never eaten pink meat regardless of what it is and have burgers and steaks well done, so I am not suffering with all the restrictions. But there is a number of things various people are frowning upon- such as cooked seafood my GP found completely inadmissible even though I asked him why it's OK to eat on the NHS website. "Well,I would not advise it". Great answer there.

I'm not even mentioning bizarre websites written by self-proclaimed dietetitians or other pseudo food gurus (I even found a few websites advising NOT to eat fruit as they contain too much sugar and make you 'catch' diabetes and bleeding), but the actual advice from various healthcare professionals varies upon where you ask. I think I remember reading on this very forum a while ago someone was categorically forbidden to eat ham by their midwife as one of the biggest evil things you can do. Of course I was reading that eating a ham sandwich as you would...

I live in Switzerland and here the advice is no raw fruit or vegetables unless you have washed them yourself.
Well it's over 30 degrees Celsius every day and I eat a salad for lunch most days, which I buy from the supermarket.
I also eat runny eggs, slightly pink beef, lots of cheese and a cup of coffee most days.
Oh and on occasion I have a glass of wine with a big meal.
I think this is ultimately better for th ebaby and for me than obsessively worrying about every bite of food, which is my natural way to be (I have anxiety).

I haven't found it that restrictive....only thing I miss really is wine! I think a bit of common sense goes a long way. I mean how many people do you know that have caught listeria from a ham sandwich? I'm not very good at being told what to do and ask 'why?' a lot. I have looked into why some things should be avoided ie the vit A in liver and chosen to eat or not eat what I really think is risky.

I haven't found it that restrictive....only thing I miss really is wine! I think a bit of common sense goes a long way. I mean how many people do you know that have caught listeria from a ham sandwich? .

None, but would not like to be one of the very few cases. We recently got another item recall from a supermarket about something we bought which have been found to be contaminated with listeria, but my partner ate it all before we even got the email. I think otherwise I would not be thinking as hard about it.

I really think most things are fine these days. The only things I avoided were pate, rare steak, unpasteurised cheese, alcohol and caffeine (drank decaf tea but still ate a fuck ton of chocolate so who knows!) Don't really eat seafood but it's only raw seafood you should avoid - enjoy your linguine!!

Agree with pp's about having some common sense...it's really not that difficult I would have thought microwaving deli ham was more dangerous than eating it fresh?!

If you follow a healthy diet then you can pretty much continue with that and take guidance from the NHS - not google.

OP, honestly, please don't worry.

I (and my midwife) kind of took the view of "As long as you aren't eating it constantly, once in a way won't hurt you"

So I had a prawn sandwich about twice a week, tuna maybe once. No harm, no foul, baby is now 9mo and a bouncing baby girl

I bought some salmon pate yesterday thinking it was only liver pate for the vitamin A that should be avoided but then I thought I might not be allowed cold smoked salmon. Checked NHS, the salmon is fine but all types of pate are banned because of listeria risk.

I read up on the different things it said to avoid and the reasons and took it from there. I completely avoided pate and blue cheeses as they were the thing it said might be harmful for the baby. My husband went to a cheese shop and said he wanted something made with pasterised milk. Cheese man did not look happy but when he said it was because I was pregnant he said anything matured over a year is fine too. I think I also avoided raw fish (which wasn't that hard, I just didn't go for sushi!)
Other than that I pretty much ate everything as it was basically saying there was a very small increased risk of food poisoning and if you do get it it might be worse than if you weren't pregnant. That was a risk I was fine with. I didn't get food poisoning. I also didn't have any morning sickness, so that might have influenced my attitude. And that I had a friend in France who was pregnant and they didn't tell her anything. I think doctor was an old guy and most concerned that she was a veggie!
I guess if you have had a bad experience I can understand your concerns. But I would try and relax a bit and enjoy being pregnant!

I also read that it is actually only raw, fresh fish you have to avoid and if it has been frozen you can also eat it. Which would probably count nearly all fish as it is frozen fro transportation.

Agree that microwaving deli ham probably more harmful than not!

I think there's a lot of scare mongering out there and lots of different researches with conflicting advice.

As others have said use the NHS guidelines and apply common sense.

Get the expecting better book by Emily Oster (also downloadable as an e book)

Brilliant and informative about this kind of stuff (basically the only thing on the absolutely no list was shark)