Another breech question, Sorry! Footling?

[Mrsjaffabiffa]

I found out today that my baby is footling breech.

I know that this means foot down but I wondered if any one had any experience of this and baby still turning?

Does it make it more difficult for baby to turn if it is footling presentation?

This is No.3 for me, both of my other dc's were head down from day one. I'm 32 weeks, so I know there is still time but I am unsure of the whole footling thing.

I had a friend with a Franke(?) breech - with its feet up round its ears - and I am sure they said she was less liekly to turn than other types of breech (presumably footling?). And they wouldn't offer her ECV as they thought it was unlikely to suceed and if it did the baby would most likely flip back within 48hrs.

Sorry this doesn't help directly - but at least it has bumped it for you.

Didn't know the offical names - but my DS1 was bum down & i was told he unlikely to be able to turn - so I had an elective CS

One of the other mums had a foot down breech & her baby turned at 34 weeks

I don't think you can be sure of anything though - just go with the advice & most importantly your gut feeling.

footling breech is the hardest to deliver, frank breech is possible but many hospitals won't do it.

Don't know about whether one is mor elikely to turn than the other.

I assume you're all up on Optimal Foetal Positioning - if not, google it, at 32 wks there's plenty of time to manoevre (IYSWIM)

ffotling breech generally are not allowed to be delivered vaginally as there is a highrisk of cord prolapse as the baby does not fit correctly in the pelcis/cervix in this position.
getting onto all fours etc several times a day gives the baby more room and may encourage it to turn. swimmingis good to as it elongated your body. whilst doinf breast stroke your back is arched and tummy 'opened up' so to speak.
otherwise, doc can try to turn the baby from the outside.

ways to possibly turn a breech baby:

1. Visualizing the baby moving down with the head very deep in your pelvis, several times a day; especially in conjunction with positions and exercises below.
2. Swimming as often as possible. This keeps your body and pelvis loose and relaxed. Do in conjunction with headstand below if you have help.
3. Headstand - with assistance and in a pool frequently as possible.
4. Breech Tilt - begin at 32-35 weeks gestation. Do 3 times daily for 10-15 minutes each time, when you have an empty stomach, and the baby is active. Prop one end of an ironing board securely on a sofa or chair 12 to 18 inches high (or may use slant board). Lie down, bend knees but keep feet flat on board. Relax, breathe deeply, avoid tensing. May also use pillows on a flat surface to raise hips 12-18" above shoulders. Gravity pushes the baby's head into the fundus, tucks it, and baby can then do a somersault to a vertex position.
5. CD/iPod headphones - place them inside mom's pants toward her pubic bone and play classical music for 10 minutes 6-8 times a day.
6. Flashlight - try moving slowly down from the top of the uterus toward your pubic bone while you are in a breech tilt position.
7. Massage - start with your left hand at the bottom of the abdomen and your right hand just above it. Move move your hands clockwise around the right side of your tummy. As your right hand reaches the top of your abdomen, slide the left one over your right and move it down the left side of your tummy. Your left hand leads as you you come full circle, continuing clockwise. Massage gently as you would to apply lotion. Massage for ten minutes or more up to several times each day.
8. Clothespin - place on the small toe of each foot at the outside corner of the toenail; sideways so that the toenail and toepad are stimulated for 30 minutes per day, this is an acupressure point that is a "moving down" point. You can also do this with just finger pressure as you remember to do it.
9. Motion Sickness band - place with the bead four fingerwidths above the inner ankle bone - another acupressure point that is used for stimulation of the uterus. Do not use this point if you are experiencing any pre-term labor.

10. Glass of orange or other juice - follow this with a side-lying position with your hips positioned higher than your feet. Babies move more after a sugar high! 11. Pelvic Tilt- with an ice pack on the top of your tummy on an empty stomach, 10 minutes twice a day. Do this while lying on your back on the floor with knees flexed and feet on the floor with three large pillows placed under your buttocks. Try this in conjunction with headphones and visualization. 12. Cat stretch - start with all fours, then lay your head and chest flat on the floor with your buttocks in the air, as you round your back and return to all fours. 13. Knee-chest position - by kneeling with hips flexed slightly more than 90 degree, but with thighs not pressing against your tummy and your head, shoulders and upper chest are flat on a mattress for 15 minutes every two waking hours for five days. 14. Belly Relaxing followed by Inversion - Partner places a shawl, sheet, towel or rebozo under mom's hips as she lays on the floor. Lift up on the corners of the cloth and shimmy her from side to side moving your hands up and down to wiggle her belly from side to side. These should be very small movements which mom should find very relaxing. Do this for about 5 minutes. Then mother kneels on the stairway landing. Walk your hands down 2 or 3 stairs into an all fours position; have your partner support your shoulders to balance you. Remain in this position for about 5-10 minutes or as long as comfortable. Also do this on an empty stomach. The following techniques to turn breech babies to vertex involve the assistance of a specialist or medical professional: 15. Acupuncture - find a acupuncturist who is familiar with pregnancy and knows the points to stimulate for turning a breech baby. 16. Webster's Breech Technique - see a Chiropractor who is experienced in this technique. 17. External Version - this can be done in the hospital at about 37 weeks; see an Ob-Gyn for assistance and more information.

Xx

Thank you for your replies. Ladyoftheflowers, I will give some of those excersises ago. I'm willing to try anything. I really want to avoid a section, the whole thought of one freaks me out.

look at the spinning babies site too and gentlebirth.org

also, mary cronk is good on breech...

BTW i was a footling breech, delivered vaginally, twin ,and prem !

sorry for rushed post, got to sort DS for school x

My DTD2 was a footling breech delivered vaginally. She even stook 1 foot out to test the water (air) first. The Doc had to rummage for her second foot (OUUUUUCH).

I think the fact that she was the second twin (was transverse going into delivery of DTD1 so had a 50/50 chance of flipping the right way) and prem (just 2lb) meant that they did't really have any alternative.

God that sounds awful slightlymadscientist

My DD was breech - bum down. I tried to get her turned at 34 weeks (I think) which involved a nurse literally sticking her hands in my pelvic region/tummy, attempting to lift her out of my pelvis and push her around. It didn't work (but it hurt - no where near what slightlymadscientist went through - though I did have bruising around my belly for a few days after). They told me she was too wedged in.

You could try accupunture, which is what I was willing to do but even the Chinese herbalist in town told me I was too far gone when I went to ask about it.

Aparently it really does work.

Also, my friend turned her baby on her own at about 32 weeks, but I wouldn't recommend doing that just in case you hurt the baba.

I think at 34 weeks with a third baby you have a high chance of it turning. My second baby shifted position pretty much daily.

Being feet down won't make it less likely to turn. Actually its probably better than bum first as it won't engage.

I think what they worry about with babies coming feetfirst is that you start to dilate, and the baby sticks a foot out when you are 3 or 4 cm. And then pushes a loop of the cord out too, and the cord gets compressed.

When its twins and the first baby was bum or head first you don't have that problem.

My dd was footling, delivered by cs. Afterwards you wouldn't believe the number of people whose auntie's cousin's nephew's wife delivered a baby feetfirst vaginally with no problems, so why did I need a cs, was I a bit too posh maybe? [steam coming out of ears emoticon].

some breech images

One of the other major problems with breech delivery is that head which is the biggest part of baby is coming down last - and if the pelvis isn't big enough to accomodate it - thats not good to say the least.

Thats why they are more likely (maginally) to do a vaginal delivery for a 2nd or subsequent birth (as you that the pelvis was able to cope with a previous delivery) compared to a first time mum. That is why it is also not a major problem for prem deliveries as the baby is obviously significantly smaller.

I'm really pleased to hear that it doesn't mean a worse chance of turning if footling.

I feel much better today about it and have realised that it is not worth worrying about. I will try the excercises and the visualisation, there has to be some truth in PMA, but at the end of the day the baby is going to stay where it want's to. I will just have to wait and see. I'm just so scared of having a c-sec. I think I'm worried about feeling cheated out of a normal birth with no.3. It's stupid I know, and I know I should use the time to get my head round the idea and just take whats dealt and hopefully it will all turn (excuse the pun) out right in the end.

Thanks again and those images were brill, I can never find anything like that when I google.

C-sections are not that bad, really they're not. Although I can see that you would be pissed off to have to have one with your third. If it comes to it, you'll get plenty of advice and reassurance on here. But it probably won't. Keep sticking that bag of frozen peas on baby's head...

I know I was extrememly lucky, but my c-section was a breeze! I have had a fair amount of far worse gynae surgery before but having a baby was far easier than some trips to the dentist I've had!

Haven't read the whole thread but to answer the OP, my second child was footling breech - and he turned at about 38 weeks.

I only tried the bum in the air thing a couple of times so have no idea if it worked or not tbh.

Just to warn you, it was fairly painful

Thanks mercy,

I'm in France and it is standard procedure to try to turn baby manually at 36weeks? I know the chances of it working are fairly slim and I understand thats painful too. Hopefull it will turn before then.

I have another scan in 2 weeks and then another 2 weeks after that if still breech, thats when thy will try the turny thing.

good link to optimal foetal positioning on here

and

tips to turn a breech here