This is interesting

[LieselVentouse]

this

I was talking to one of the consultants at St Thomas's about this - I think obesity and women from ethnic groups (esp if they have English as 2nd language) are going to be the big challenge for obst care in the next few years. obesity is also thought to affect your child's future health (in terms of the development of their endocrine system etc)

obesity from ethnic groups? where is this data from bundle?

Bundle, it is obvious to most that severely obese women have added health risks of all sorts and thereby will be an added pressure on the NHS and pose some challenges to being cared for during pregnancy and childbirth. However, what exactly do you mean women "from ethnic groups are going to be a big challenge for obst care in the next few years"? Which ethnic groups are you referring to and in what way could any ethnic group as a whole, assuming they are legal British residents/citizens, possibley challenge obstetric care? I'd be more careful before throwing out statements like that even tho you may well have not meant it to be racist or xenophobic...

i think bundle was referring to ethnicity and obesity as seperate issues

Yes, clearly she was referring to them as two seperate issues but I still don't understand what someone's ethnic group has to do with challenges to obstetric care?

the challenges i can think of are a language barrier, also cultural differences to do with modesty or touching...

Someone who worked at a hospital posted recently about a baby which died, because the father would not allow his wife to be undressed by male ambulance attendants (a cultural no-no for them), even though she was on the verge of delivery. That sort of thing?

I'm not agreeing of disagreeing about the comment bundle made but i have been watching the baby channel and i heard something about ethnic groups have a higher rate of complications during birth. Me personaly I don't understand why someones ethnic grouping would have any bearing on their pregnancy but hay if we believed everything these surveys said we would have nothing to be positive about lol

dueat44...i emailed you the c.s plan.did you get it ?

i can see how cultural issues can lead to situations such as the one described by dueat. but im not sure yet of what bundle referred to certain ethnic groups being a challenge for obst care. how so?

In regards to the baby channel programme you were watching, imreadyforababy, I can't understand that either. It could be that it is true for some ethnic groups, I'm not a doctor so I wouldn't want to comment too much on that point. However the problem is obviously that "ethnic groups" is a ridiculously broad term to use, whether it was used by the baby channel or by bundle. There's no way ethnic groups as a whole have more risks when it comes to pregnancy. The definition of an ethnic group is a group united by common cultural, behavioural, linguistic, ritualistic or religious traits, usually but not always on the basis of a common genealogy or ancestry. Clearly an enormous number of women would fall into that category. It seems impossible that such a large number of women, who are vastly different from one another, would all have higher risks for pregnancy related complications just because they are not Anglosaxon, don't you all agree?

yes, i agree glitter. it is very hard indeed to define what is an ethnic group to start with, and i have studied anthropology. im a bit cautious of the term, also because many times i think what people (im not saying bundle, in this case) really want to say is 'foreigners'. and that usually leads to xenphobia, and so on...

I read a recent article (I think on BBC health news) about research suggesting that women from certain ethnic groups had slightly shorter PGs, so should be monitored and possibly induced earlier than 41 weeks, to reduce risk of stillbirth. maybe bundle meant something along those lines. will try and find a link to the item.

Precisely, jabuti. I'm glad you see my point. I do want to give bundle the benefit of the doubt that she didn't mean it in that way but it just makes me uncomfortable when the term "ethnic group" is used as a sweeping statement for foreigners in general.

certain ethnic groups can be carriers for certain devastating illnesses eg Tay Sachs or sickle cell aneamia, which can bring a whole host of issues even pre conception....

sigh. I thought it was pretty obvious I wasn't being in the slightest bit xenophobic.

the 10 women who died at Northwick Park hospital (the inquiry found that 9 of those 10 deaths could have been prevented) were from Asian/African backgrounds and had English as a second language. communication (or lack of it) was a contributory factor in the poor level of care they received. the rcog, rcm and the govt's maternity tsar all highlighted to me that disadvantaged women, especially those who don't have english as a first language (at hospitals like uch about half of the women who deliver there have english as a 2nd language - including more eastern european women as well as more well-established groups like Somalian women), don't get the maternity care they need and deserve at the moment in this country. I was told that some of these women (eg near northwick park) present late so then it's more difficult to help them with any health or cultural issues they might have (although there are pockets of excellent specialist care eg for women who've had fgm at guy's). I'm very surprised that my comments were taken as being possibly xenophobic, they certainly weren't meant in that way and I feel passionately that all women should have access to good, safe obstetric care, whatever their needs, and for some to fall through the safety net as I know they do, is appalling in this day & age.

I know exactly what bundle is referring to as I live near Northwick Pk Hospital and I've had my first two delivered there and am about to have my third there! I have seen women with little English finding it very difficult to express their needs. It's hard enough experiencing the 'I have no idea what I'm doing with this newborn' feeling when you have your first child let alone not being able to ask for help. However, in NWPH defence, when I had my second there was one new mum next to me and she was having problems br-feeding the baby as the baby was VERY lathargic and would not wake to feed. I tried to help her a few times, and not knowing if this instigated their interest, but several mw's did come and try to spoon feed the baby and wake it up etc. They spent several hours trying if I remember rightly. The poor mum could only just nod in acknowledgement of what they were asking her about the baby. I felt terrible for her as I knew it was her first and how concerned she must have felt about the baby not feeding. I do feel though, that particularly at NWPH, they do know they have over 60+ languages to deal with and they should be (if they haven't already) be providing knowledgable mw's or translators in the wards.

(sorry for spelling mistakes!)

I think people from ethnic minorities tend to experience poorer health outcomes across the board. Basically due to racism (deliberate or institutional)/system being weighted against them/communication difficulties.

That totally clears it up Bundle, not to worry. It makes sense now what you were referring to but I hope you can see the difference in your first post and the second in terms of being clear about what you meant. These sort of problems described are very sad and unfortunate and I agree with rowan1971 in that also being a factor in these problems. It's a complicated situation and I'm not sure there's a clear answer to solve these problems.

since im the one that wrote the word xenophobic, i just wanted to clarify (since it wanst clear for you in my post) that i did not say your comment was xenophobic bundle.