So how good are you really being with 'banned' food?

[Heatherbell1978]

Ok second pregnancy here (15 weeks) and I'm definitely being a little more relaxed than last time. Currently eating sushi and haven't paid any heed to the runny egg thing at all this pregnancy. The week I found out we were on holiday and I decided I still wanted to enjoy a few cold beers. I might have had the odd glass or 2 of fizz too. Last time I was much more strict although had a few beers after the 36w mark. Just wondering if I'm alone....

I'm 38 weeks and have still been having caffeine (don't drink much coffee but tea / diet coke, probably over the allowance fairly often), had a few ice creams from vans, runny eggs that's about it really.

Had no alcohol whatsoever and don't like soft cheese / sushi / rare meat / pate so quite lucky there really!

It's a bit of a lottery - alcohol in the baby's blood at just the wrong moment of brain development can have an impact. The same amount of alcohol just a few hours earlier or later could have no effect at all. I don't want to scare monger, and obviously no judgement on those that do enjoy the odd glass, but for our family it's a risk we just wouldn't take

That is simply not true and you ARE scaremongering.

Second baby here.
I don't even like most of the foods on the "banned" list anyway....stinky cheese? Eww! Wouldn't eat that pregnant or not!
I'm eating whatever I would normally eat, including runny eggs, as much coffee as I fancy etc. The only things I will never eat/drink while pregnant is patè or alcohol. I read an article about birth defects caused by too much vitamin A (found in liver products, I.e. patè) and the pictures were horrific! And alcohol, in my opinion is just not worth the risk - we don't know enough about the effects it has on a baby so I'm happy to go without. I was never a big drinker anyway!
After I had Dd, my mum and dad came to visit and my only request was that they bring a huge French stick and a slab of Brussels patè with them it was amazing

I'm mostly avoiding alcohol (have had about one unit a month), I don't smoke, limited caffeine to one drink a day. I don't eat high vitamin A things, pate, soft blue or mould-ripened cheese (I do eat Stilton and other hard blue cheese which is apparently fine) or shark, swordfish or merlin. I've avoided salami and prosciutto and rare meat although that might change now! I eat sushi but not sashimi. I haven't found it too difficult as I've gone off a lot of things.

Am vegetarian, so avoided mouse anyway

Now that runny eggs and nuts are OK, I am eating pretty much just what's safe. I just had one glass of bubbly as a toast at a family celebration at 10 weeks.. it would have been rude not to!

Check out Expecting Better - written by an academic who got fed up of in evidenced based preachy advice. I also work in health policy and have checked out her methods so I feel comfortable with her results which are -

Alcohol is fine in moderation (1 drink a day). I'm drinking 2-4 units a month I think
Caffeine is fine unless you're drinking 60 cups a day, no evidence of harm for those of us who drink 2-5 cups of tea
Do not eat unpasteurised cheeses as listeriosis is worse for pregnant women than for others

NHS and rcm guidelines are ok but some of them are consensus rather than evidence based , eg their 'no safe level' of alcohol stuff. Absolute twaddle, FAS hits those drinking to excess regularly. What else do these maniacs want to ban? No guarantees safe driving so pregnant women shouldn't drive? Nuts. Just check out the research, and make up your own mind.

That is simply not true and you ARE scaremongering

I'm sorry you found my post to be scaremongering, that was absolutely not my intention and something I tried to avoid. Sincere apologies. I think there's a difference between informed, researched knowledge and half truths designed to be frightening, I was only trying to pass on something I think is important to be aware of.

This is a topic very close to my heart and I believe many people simply aren't aware of the possible risks. I certainly had no idea of the distinction between FAS (foetal alcohol syndrome - severely debilitating and caused by very heavy, very regular alcohol consumption) and FASD (foetal alcohol spectrum disorder) before I began research. It's thought that there are vast numbers of individuals facing behavioural, emotional, social and learning difficulties caused by FASD which were totally preventable. True numbers will never be known.

I used the term 'lottery' in an attempt to convey the idea that alcohol may OR may not affect the baby. Absolutely it's not a certainty, but the possibility that even tiny amounts of alcohol could affect a developing baby is a fact. In the nicest possible, non confrontational way, you are wrong to say it's not true.

"There is no known safe amount of alcohol during pregnancy or when trying to get pregnant. There is also no safe time to drink during pregnancy. Alcohol can cause problems for a developing baby throughout pregnancy, including before a woman knows she’s pregnant."
www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/fasd/facts.html
A much more accessible site which uses information from medical journals/papers.

I shall now climb down off my FASD soapbox and go and attempt to consume my own body weight in rare steak and sushi!

Pretty sure a recent large scale cohort study showed improved behavioural an educational scores at yr1 for children of moderate drinkers vs abstainers. I'm on my phone but can dig out later if anyone wants.

The issue is what constitutes acceptable risk. People (myself included) are very bad at judging risks. You are much much more likely to die in a car accident than cycling, for eg, but no one doesn't drive be misuse there's no 'safe level'. There is no evidence of harm of moderate drinking. There is also no evidence it's safe. To my mind, the second is a fear-inducing way of saying the same thing.

*because

. I think there's a difference between informed, researched knowledge and half truths designed to be frightening, I was only trying to pass on something I think is important to be aware of

You did not post informed researched knowledge, you posted invented rubbish, which is the opposite of what many studies from the leading experts on the subject say. Which I have read. I suggest you do the same before you tell people things as if they are fact

What Arseicle said.

The NHS website is what I've been going by and they still say no to rare steak and sushi that hasn't been frozen. None of the sushi chains - wasabi, itsu, abokado, yo! - freeze their salmon, believe me I've tried them all!!

NHS and rcm guidelines are ok but some of them are consensus rather than evidence based , eg their 'no safe level' of alcohol stuff. Absolute twaddle, FAS hits those drinking to excess regularly
Yes, this is true.

FASD, however, hits many, many more.
"... researchers believe that there are at least 3 times as many cases of FASDs beyond those with full FAS. Some experts estimate that approximately 40,000 babies may be born with an FASD in the United States each year. Much more work is needed in the area of diagnosis and estimating prevalence of FASDS to have more accurate numbers"
www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/chronic/Pages/Fetal-Alcohol-Spectrum-Disorders-FAQs-of-Parents-and-Families.aspx
A US site I know, but simply for illustrative purposes. Culturally we are pretty similar so I think it's relevant information nonetheless.

NK7995a1caX11eb0ed0bae - there is absolutely no science in that article though - all it says is "we don't know".

And telling people about damage they might have caused before they even knew they were pregnant is sooooo helpful. The article actually goes so far as to say "ooh all women who could get pregnant should just not drink ever, just in case". WTF?! Pretty much all women between 15 and 50 have the ability to have an unplanned pregnancy. So none of us are ever allowed a drink, then? That article is ridiculous and pointless. And contains precisely zero facts.

Sushi made from the kind of fish that has parasites is required by law to be frozen first, so yes, they do that in all the chains. They'd be shut down if they didn't. Fish like farmed salmon that doesn't contain parasites does not need to be frozen. Either way, no danger from sushi.
NHS guidelines read like they were written on the back of an envelope at a boozy lunch, they are outdated and often completely wrong.

there you go again!

"Believe" "estimate" "could be"

That means fuck all.

29 weeks with number 2 and have been quite naughty with cold cut meats and cheese as we've been in France for two weeks. I don't like rare meat anyway so that hasn't been an issue. I've eaten loads of fish and shellfish though and have been getting a bit annoyed with people trying to tell me what I should and shouldn't eat - with no personal experience themselves! I had maybe a small glass of white wine spritzer every other day while on holiday, have been completely teetotal since getting back though and completely abstained in first trimester. Definitely more relaxed about everything with this baby - even went down some water slides and have done some of the tamer fairground rides.

You know that shop brought Sushi is generally ok right.... It us to be frozen for transportation and that kills off any baddies. It's only the fresh stuff you need to be careful of. I've still been having the waitrose stuff when I've been wanted but wouldn't get anything fresh while pregnant.
And you can eat runny eggs as long as they're lion stamped.
I've had the odd small glass of wine, and some Stilton on a burger. Wouldn't eat pate though

I got told off for having a prawn sandwich from sainsburys, now that's stupid.

You did not post informed researched knowledge, you posted invented rubbish, which is the opposite of what many studies from the leading experts on the subject say.

Again, with all due respect you are wrong. I've posted information from respected sources and given those sources. There are many, many other resources and evidence based research articles available online. The facts remain - FASD is a real thing and proven, peer reviewed research exists which corroborates this. Very large studies have been conducted globally. I'm not in any way cherry picking fanciful horror stories written by one, hysterical doctor, nor am I making any of what I've said up - why would I? Believe me I would love an ice cold glass of the crispest, driest pinot grigio money can buy! I shared what I've researched because I have seen first hand how FASD can harm. It's dreadful and I think it should be talked about/known about more.

Anyway, apologies again if I've caused any offence. To each their own and all that.

FenellaMaxwell point taken, it's a poor example. Cite in haste, repent at leisure!

I'm not wrong, and a glass of wine cannot cause FASD. It's hyped up American nonsense. Study after study after study shows that there are no links between light drinking and ANY problems with a foetus. Over and over and over again nothing is found.
You can't just keep quoting people opinions as fact. Yes the official line may be that no-one knows where the limit is, but we do know that FAS is not found in women who drink lightly. IT does not happen. This has been conclusively shown.

Stop buying into the notion that you should tell women not to drink at all because they can't be trusted to drink just a little bit. It's like many of the guidelines, based on the notion that women are too stupid to moderate their behaviours and must be ordered not to touch things that can be harmful in large quantities. It's insulting and misogynistic.

I think it's probably been said but even salmon that hang been frozen yet (at Yo) is farmed and very very unlikely to contain the parasitic worms that are dangerous.

Should add I'm also drinking 3 cups of tea a day, occasional coffees and peanut butter on white bread sandwiches by the bucket.

I've been told that the sushi risk relates to the rice not the fish, as cooked rice that has been sitting cold for some time is a significant listeria risk? I've been eating it anyway, since avoiding all possible sources of listeria contamination is basically impossible (bagged salad, any kind of mashed up food eg humus, all cooked then cooled and packaged food eg supermarket sandwiches, butter and other dairy products, deli meats, raw vegetables, smoked fish/meat etc etc etc). Good food prep techniques can avoid some of the risk but not all. You do have to have some faith in food hygiene standards.

Nope, no listeria risk from sushi rice. In fact the bigger listeria risks (which are tiny anyway) are NOT from anything you're told to avoid, but from other things. Butter, for example. Ice cream (not whippy).