Dads at ante-natal scans

[Tom]

Dear mumsnetters

The govt is working on a project to promote to employers the idea that expectant fathers should be allowed time off to attend ante-natal scans. They're not going to introduce any legislation - rather just promote this as good employer practice. I am helping them build their case, and have argued that it is especially important for the abnormality scan, which can be quite nerve racking at times, and if anything does come up, quite traumatic. Most mums name their partner as their main source of emotional support during/after pregnancy.

My request is this - do any of you have any experiences you can share that illustrate the importance of your partner during a scan? It could be for any number of reasons - perhaps it was the key moment that enabled him to really become engaged in the pregnancy (us blokes don't get all the physical changes of pregnancy, so reality often kicks in when we see a baby on a screen), or perhaps some of you have had traumatic experiences during scans when the presence of your partner was vital to you coping with the upset. Or perhaps some of you might have not been able to take your partner along (employer inflexibility) and his absence caused problems? Perhaps his absence meant that he was less involved in the pregnancy because he didn't get the medical information he needed to support you...

Any experiences would be helpful to hear about - we would like it to become accepted practice that a father, like a mother, is allowed to take time out from work to go along to the scans. We believe that involving fathers-to-be in the pregnancy is essential to dads being involved after the birth.

Many thanks for any help you can give.

Dino

of course it was a shock, it always is, whether you anticipate it or not, don't you think so?
I don't think you can actually prepare for anything being wrong with your baby......

I'm sorry I'm going on about this, but honestly I've always looked forward to all my scans, as an occasion to be reassured about the wellbeing of my baby,a dn yes the opportunity to see it. (I can't belive all of you go in for a scan only thinking about the problems you might be told about...!)The thought that there could be something wrong was always at the back of my mind, I know perfectly well there could be problems, but again I have friends who've lost babies at all stages of pregnancy, for all sorts of reasons and only one was detected by scan so I would have to worry all the time about it and I try not to or I would go mad.

The thing is you're all happy and excited about your baby and then you get all these comments about how the scan is only for checking baby's health, it's not for you to enjoy seeing the baby, it sorts of spoils it for me, I don't understand all this gloom about it and the necessity to underline only the possible negative outcomes of a scan. But again that's only me and I'm highjacking Tom's thread (which is a brilliant idea by the way) so I've made point and won't say anything more about it!!

Webmum, actually I've asked the sonographers about how many people are prepared for anything to go wrong and told 'hardly anyone'. I do, sadly, think a lot of women are a bit naive about it.

And as it happens, I wept and wept and shrieked when I saw my first baby on screen, in particular. I quite honestly hadn't fully accepted I was pregnant (I hadn't intended to be, and hadn't swelled up at all by that point) until I saw the tiny legs and arms thrashing around. I wouldn't have missed it for the world. But I still don't think that was the point of it all. And I've been terrified of going into all my four.

this is my last post, on the subject, honest,

but really how can you be prepared for something to be wrong with your baby?

My dad died of cancer 3 months after being diagnosed with it, and we were told he had 3 months to live, I don't think any of us was ready for it anyway.

Because I used to run the Mencap press office? Because I've worked around the disability field? Because I know why the NHS spends money on scans?

I found out at a scan (that my husband was unable to attend) that the feotus had died. Rather unexpected as I was 18 + weeks pregnant. The news itself was hard to take but even harder was trying to image how (and when) I would tell dh. I opted not to tell him over the phone as I thought he deserved to hear it in person. By the time I walked home our children were playing at dh's feet and it was clear from the atmosphere that everyone expected to be looking at pictures of a future brother or sister until they saw the look on my face.
I really didn't even know what to say and I still feel that the healing process would have been so much easier if we had found out together. I will INSIST that he come along with me to all scans for sure this time.

We went through almost the exact same experience as Dinosaur, and it was extremely important that DP was there with me, so that we could support EACH OTHER (not just he support me) and because he was the unborn baby's father. He needed to be there so that he could ask his own questions about the risks/benefits of amnio before we decided to go ahead, and take part in that decision. He has been 100% involved with every aspect of our care and decision-making around our DS's foot and leg complications, rather than having to 'catch up' and make decisions based on what I tell him the doctors said. The fact that he was right there from the start has definitely affected the way we have dealt with it together ever since.

Canadianmum - so sorry this happened to you. What a horrible, horrible shocking awful thing

I found that once I all the issues my pregnancy caused between myself and DP were resolved, I went on to get myself so wound up about my scan, I didn't have it untill I was 13 and 2. I was convinced that now everything had settled and sorted, something would be wrong with my baby.

I will be going to my next scan, aware, very much aware that there may be something wrong. But I also think that getting myself worked up like last time is no good for me or the little one. I think the vast majority of mothers (and fathers) know why these scans take place, but what may be wrong, the extent of the problem, and what may be missed mean that worrying before it happens slightly futile.

It does not matter how prepared people are... bad news is bad news and has to be dealt with. Being prepared does not make it necessarily any easier to deal with. Scans should be a pleasant experience and the vast majority are exactly that. However, I feel strngly that employers should give the option of providing time off as this is a potentially very distressing time and that should be beared in mind.

God I think it is one of the most importnant things ever for a man to see his unborn child - the woman in the first instance gets all of the feelings of pregnancy and the kicks and prods and the mood swings and sickness and I think if I were a man I would feel pretty much on the periphery 9sp) of a huge event that I should be part of but aren;t really experiencing - I think the first scan at least makes him aware that there is a baby in there and it is part of him and his child too!!

I also think after having 2 bad experiences at 12 week scans that a partner should be there for moral support - I was not in the least expecting there to be anything wrong with DD but was releived that x2b was there to hold my hand and support me when we were told that there might be and as for this pregnancy ithas been even more important for DP to be there as he knew just how worried I was and how much I needed his support.

I also think canadianmums story high lights just why partners/a n other should be required to attend scans - sorry to hear about your experience canadianmum. XXX

DP is looking forward imensly now to the remaining 3 scans we have to go to.

Tom I don;t agree with everything you say and all your issues you fight for but idf theer were someone I could write to or a petition I could sign to back you up on this one I would be more than happy.

Good Luck

Oh dear... I'm with Webmum, although I was terrified about going for my scans in case they did find anything wrong. That didn't stop me looking forward to them as a chance to see the baby and aks the sex too!! Just because I was aware that it could highlight a problem didn't mean I didn't enjoy looking at my baby once they said all was okay!

And no matter how many books I read, or programmes about miscarriages that I cry over... NOTHING would prepare me to receive the news that my baby had died. Luckily all was well at all my scans. And DH came along for my dating and anomaly scans. But not to any I had later on to check position and stuff like that.

I don't think looking forward to your scan as a chance to see the baby costs the NHS anymore money Motherinferior! I'm actually not clear on the point you are trying to make, but it seems to be a subject that is a tad sensitive to you!! You are being a bit condescending IMHO... webmum is merely saying that even though she is aware of possible problems that scans can show.... there is no point worrying yourself sick about it. And although scans serve a very good medical purpose.... they can also be a nice chance to see your healthy wriggling baby!

Good on you Webmum!

Tom - I think what your doing is fantastic. I needed DH there for many reasons:

Support if anything had been wrong (I@ve never squeezed his hand so tight!)

It let him see the baby and it meant a lot to him.

And it also meant alot to me to share that wonderful thing with my DH....as I was lucky enough to not have bad news at my scans, so they were indeed wonderful.

However - as someone else pointed out. I go to my antenatal appointments on my own and they check the babies heartbeat each time. You are just as likely to recieve bad news there too.... aren't you?

I work in the same hospital as my dh (different department) and was having such a rough time with my early pregnancy, that my dh's boss insisted that he took me for my first scan. I was convinced I had an ectopic pregnancy that hadn't had time to start bleeding! As it turned out all was OK, but had it been confirmed as ectopic I would have needed dh there, no doubt about it. I had several subsequent scans for another problem, and the Obstetrician who did the scans kept asking where dh was, when I had to go on my own!

Tom, have you had any discussions with the sonographers? I doubt if many would have a problem with an accompanying spouse, but I do know one senior sonographer who often complains about women who bring the whole family (husband, granny and half a dozen kids)to "see the baby". As has been said before a scan is needed to pick up problems, and is not a social occasion!

Tom, like Webmum, after the nuchal fold scan I was put in a very high risk category. I was lucky enough to have dh with me, and also to be at King's, where they were able to arrange for a heart specialist to do another scan that day, and we were also referred to the Harris clinic the following day for a CVS test. We were lucky in that not only was everything dealt with very quickly, but also that all was and is well with dd. But not to have had dh with me through this process would have been dreadful.

Also like Webmum, I had not gone into the scan anticipating problems or even focussing on the fact that there could be problems.

Intellectually I was of course aware that not all pregnancies and births go according to plan, and that the main purpose of the scan was medical - however for me it was not possible to separate it (and didn't even cross my mind to consider separating it) from the anticipation of seeing my baby for the first time and having it really brought home to me that it was real. There are no doubt people who think that the only reason the NHS has invested in the equipment is to show them a pretty picture of the baby, but I would think they are in the minority.

I was not prepared for anything to go wrong. Even if I had thought long and hard about it beforehand I would still not have been any better prepared for anything to go wrong. I'm someone who needs to have the facts in front of me to deal with, rather than speculate about something which isn't in my control anyway.

When I was pregnant for the second time, I attended a 14 week scan without dh (he was looking after our ds who was ill). At the scan I was told there was no heartbeat and the baby had died. It was the most horrific moment of my life and I needed my dh with me more than anything. He has never missed a scan since and has been there to support me when a second miscarriage was diagnosed at scan and when, in my current pregnancy, a potential problem was identified. I think it is essential for the father to be there, it is his baby too and important news affects him as well.

On a very mundane and undramatic level, having dh with me at the earlier scans in my second pregnancy was an enormous practical help (as well as a wonderful shared joy). As it happened, there was no-one who could look after 20m ds at the time, and I had no choice but to take him along. I'm not sure I would have been able to manage buggy, toddler, morning sickness and a full bladder on the tube alone.

Of course you're more likely to have something picked up at a scan - where you're looking in so much detail that you can see the shape of the baby's nose - than at a midwife appointment.

And the point I'm trying to make is simply that scans are there for one purpose. If many of us - including me, as it happens - find the sight amazing and wonderful, that's great. But that isn't the reason why they are provided. And that primary purpose, to return to Tom's original question, is why I think it's important to take along support, which is probably your partner. The spin-off many of us gain from them is also something which partners, in particular (as opposed to other forms of backup/support) can benefit.

...although incidentally, Tom, my partner found it a lot less moving than hearing the first heartbeat!

Due to the nature of dh's work he was able to attend only some of my scans, so I had someone else accompany me when necessary. I do think it's important that women have support at scans, whether that's the baby's father or your own mum/friend/whoever.

I must say, I have a different perspective on the idea that it's essential that dads need to be involved in pg to be involved postnatally. Scans weren't available when I had my first two babies in the 1970's, so really, the only involvment dh could have was being able to feel the baby kicking, (he also had to listen to my contast whinging, of course) and yet dh is a fantastic hands-on father and has a very close relationship with them all. Scans are a great tool, don't get me wrong, but I think it shows a lack of faith in human nature to say dads need to attend appts etc to be involved later on.

In fact, since I had my younger children I've been shocked at how little many modern fathers do, nowadays. Until then, I'd fondly imagined most dads were as keen as dh to help rear their brood. Whatever happened to New Man?

I went to a 12 week scan last June on my own, certainly didn't anticipate any problems. DH was unable to make it, and didn't really think much of going on my own. Was told something was wrong and I was sent immediately to a different hospital across London. I couldn't drive for about 15 minutes I was that shaken up and physically shaking - that call to DH to meet me at the other hospital was awful - he didn't even make it before I had the second scan and the doctor told me that the baby was going to die.
I can close my eyes and I am back in that room.

I have had early scans for 2 subsequent pregnancies and of course DH was there. There was no question of him taking the time off work. We have another 12 week scan next week which I am dreading.

I think for women who have had bad experiences in the past perhaps approach a scan as something to be anxious, nervous and scared about what might be seen or found out. Certainly with dd's pregnancy, I was excited and thrilled with the opportunity to 'see' her there on a screen. Never again though.

Good luck tom with this stuff.

Very very sad for those who discovered the worst news of all at scans.

Can I ask one thing? For those of you who were alone at the scan, or without DP/DH, did it effect your relationship? If that happened to me, I can imagine feeling maybe resentful that he had not been with me, and for him, isolated...and that it could cause problems beyond grieving, and damage our relationship. that could be something for Tom to consider?

To add to everyone elses experiences my DP came to the first one (at 10 weeks due to bleeding) I really needed him there as I thought I had lost the baby, the next two one routine one not he didn't go to as he had just started a new job but he came to the 23 week anomoly one. One of best moments of my pregnancy was his face when he saw the baby yawn on the screen I think it made him realise it was a little person in there and made it real.

IMO Dads should be able to attend as many scans as they want to and work should accomodate this. How many times in your life will you get to see your unborn child? Also if anything were to go wrong I would want the father of the baby to be there as well.

Blu, I felt absolutely no resentment that dh wasnt with me. It was a joint decision that he should look after ds as he was sick. Had his absence been due to the fact that he didnt want to take time off, then yes I'd have been very resentful I think.

That's a problem, Tom, for all freelancers/self-employed. Women too.

Tom,

sorry - nothing to do with scans! Just to say I'm very impressed with the work you're doing for dad's rights. It makes me really angry that my hubby and I are having a baby, yet I'm treated like a lone parent - no provision is made for my DH to take time off work for ante-natal appts, or stay with me in hospital, or fully participate in baby care (eyebrows were raised cos in my birth plan I want DH to give baby it's 1st bath). I feel very depressed that I have to fight every step of the way to keep DH involved.

Good luck