HELP- baby breech, what's the pro's and cons to external version, vb v's cs

[mum26plus]

Hi, I'm 34+3 with my 7th baby and I've never had a breech one before. The doctor mentioned external version but I've heard there can be complications with this, what are they?? and some serious pain. He also mentioned a caesarean but might also have been happy to allow a vb, which is best? Can someone give me some information and advice on all of this and when is it too late for the baby to turn. Getting a bit worried about all this.

I think there's still a fair bit of time for the baby to turn. And you are a good candidate for a vb, assuming all your other babies were by vb, and you're happy with vb?

CS sucks, tbh, and if you have a history of natural birth, then I'd stick with that.

External version can work very well. If it isn't working, yes, it hurts - but you can have gas and air during the ecv, which can help.

If you go for a vaginal breech birth, try to find staff who've done them before - they're pretty rare these days.

I think there are 'manouevres' you can try yourself to get baby to turn. Sounds like you've got a bit of time to play with. Would avoid cs if I could. Will try and see what I can find for you...

Try some of these

Thanks Ceolas, am definitely going to try some of those suggestions.

NQC, thank you for your help. Yes all my other dc were vb's but am not sure when it's too late for this one to turn, they have given me 2 weeks then I have to decide whether I want them to try and turn the baby. My ob told me it could cause probs but am unsure what they are and also unsure of any probs with vb of a breech. Any suggestions.

just to say that I had a c-section with a breech baby 6 years ago

it's no picnic, no, but there's no reason to be scared of it; there is a lot of negative feeling about it but I actually am glad that I had it; it gave me a lot of peace of mind in terms of risk to the baby

Hi Cappucino, the peace of mind is about my only reason for having a c section, everyone I know thats had one has reccomended doiong everything else I can think of before having one. I guess thats why I want to know if I have time left for my bean to turn on it's own and if there's anything I can do to help it. I'm probably scared of it as I've had 6 vb's and a c section is just an unknown to me

recovery is hard from a c-section and it is best to avoid one

but as a method of giving birth, elective section isn't all that bad and I wouldn't want anyone to be upset about having to have one

I spent ages on my front trying to turn dd2 in the hope that I wouldn't have to have another one, but that was mainly cos dd1 is disabled and I needed to be able to lift her after the birth, which wouldn't be possible with c-section

all I was trying to say is I hope that you get the birth you want, but if not, don't get too upset about it

btw I did get a vbac with dd2 so I have done it 'both ways'

Thanks cappucino, I'm hoping for a healthy baby at the end of it all so trying not to get too distressed if it comes down to a c section.

Firstly, you've got loads of time for it to turn - my last baby (4th) didn't turn head down till after 40 weeks! For what it's worth, I would never consider a c/s for breech unless I was in labour and it was clearly not progressing.

There's a very experienced independent midwife called Mary Cronk who considers breech presentation a variant of normal and it's worth reading her breech guidelines. Unfortunately many doctors and midwives are scared of breech birth and think that c/s is safer than a managed breech delivery, when what is really safest in many cases is a hands-off breech birth. It's up to you whether to try ECV but from what I've heard, it either works easily if the baby wants to turn, or it just doesn't work if the baby is breech for a good reason.

If you Google Mary Cronk breech you'll come up with most of the pages with good information (IMHO!) to help you make an informed decision - don't get railroaded into a c/s unless you're sure that's what you believe is safest.

Don't panic yet. My stubbornly breech second baby turned at 38 weeks. I didn't do anything either, she just turned all by herself.

Hi I am 27 + 3 with my fifth baby, and I posted a similar thread the other day panicking as all my other babies had been head down from as soon as they could tell.
Since then I have spoken to quite a few people who's babies have turned - even during labour in one case.
Two people have said that if they have room to turn the baby for you then one of the problems is that it will probably turn back again. Also that it gets more common the more babies you have!
I ( if I am honest) would be terrified of having a cs, and hope desperately that mine turns round - though obviously I have more time to play with than you. Plus I really really would love another home birth ( all have been at home except the first) Let me know how things work out for you! good luck!

Thanks Coco for your advice, a c section was definitely the last thing I wanted but the specialist said they tend to do more of them these days because of litigation, what a joke! I'm happier having a vb but obviously want to know what the risks are, if they are higher than normal. As for the ECV he gave me his personal 90% success rate and he'd been doing them for 35 years, I thought it sounded a bit high the 10% but then I'm not sure whether he was talking about the baby flipping back or the associated probs. However, I;ve been looking at some DIY turn your baby sites and I'm going to try them first.

Cazboldy, I too am terrified of a c section but also the results if something goes wrong during a vb as I'm not sure what the problems can be. Dr. didn't go into too much detail as he's given me a couple of weeks to decide what I want to do if bean doesn't turn. Hope your lo turns well before due date to give you some peace of mind.

hello, I had a really stubbornly breech baby in DS, and eventually had an elective cs, but really wanted to reassure you that I had a great experience with it - very calm, lovely. At 34 weeks, this baby is also in breech - and because of this and various other medical problems anyway, I'm happy to go for another E cs. The only problem is the recovery period - 6 weeks without heavy lifting (including toddlers - basically anything heavier than your new baby) so that is one problem to think through and sort out help/coping mechanisms. But certainly, from my experiences (and other friends who had elective cs for medical reasons) its really ok, so don't feel that you have a really bad final option.

All the same, good luck with ECV, or better still a baby that turns itself

turning a breech baby.....this has worked for 2 women i know of!

if baby is bottom down, vaginal delivery is an option. and if you have had 6 vaginal births, i;d say go for it.....

if you do go for ECV..check your hospital stats on it first as success rates vary from trust to trust.....

look at mary cronk talking about breech birth

also, ina may gaskin, in her book , 'spiritual midwifery' discusses breech birth ..

c.s , even elective , is a major operation and with 6 other children and a new born, if you can avoid it, do! if your doctor is happy for you to go for vaginal delivery, then i;d give it a go.

A 90% success rate is very impressive. 50% is more typical.

The 10% won't be a complication rate, it'll be the rate of failures, as in, he couldn't get the baby to turn.

The complications they're worried about are causing problems to the placenta, meaning you have to have a section right away. Because of this, from what I know, you're generally nil by mouth from midnight if you're having an ECV, so if they have to give you a GA, they can.

These problems are very rare, though. And they monitor the baby before, during, and after the ECV, to make sure everything is fine, and to ensure they spot any problems before they become serious, iyswim.

Given that you have had six babies before, that means there's probably a fair bit of space in your uterus, so your baby has lots of room to turn around, even when he's quite big.

Your successful vbs make a vaginal delivery a good option, but only if you can get a midwife or other practitioner who knows how to do breech deliveries. Because of litigation, and the increased popularity of CS, there aren't a lot of midwives out there who have done breech deliveries. But you might be able to find an older midwife who is competant at this?

Thanks lulumama and NQC I'm all for trying anything that turns the baby DIY style have been crawling around the house on all fours already and lying as tilted as one can at this stage, talk about the proverbial beached whale . I realise just how impossible it would be with 6 others including a 2 year old who hasn't been picked up for the last month and who I miss cuddling. Can you tell me why having already had 6 children it makes it better for me to have a vb and how much risk is involved with a prolapsed cord as I am way out in the country and over an hours drive to hospital and my last labour was an hour from first twinge to delivery. Also how does one arrange a midwife who has had experience delivering breech babies? You'd think I'd know some of the answers, I'm hardly a novice

Mum26, do you know which of the 3 breech positions your baby is in? It makes a difference to how safe a vb is. Footling breech (with feet coming first) is the most dangerous, and bottom first and feet pointing up in the air (I think it's called frank breech) is the safest.

To find a midwife who can do breech vb, you'd need to ask around, I guess. Find your local home birth group, ask them, maybe? Ask whatever midwives you've got?

The reason why a breech vb is better for you than it would be for a first-time mum is this - the big risk from breech vb (from what I know) is that the hips get out, and then the head is stuck. The baby thinks it's out, tries to breathe, and, well, you can see what goes wrong here. Oh, yeah, and at this point, the cord is stuck between the head and your cervix, iyswim.

But if you've had a baby before (never mind 6!) then a) you know your hips are wide enough b) you dilate quickly, so your cervix won't open just enough for the hips but not enough for the head.

(I am not a mw! My first baby was footling breech, and would not be turned, so I ended up with a cs.)

Ah, just noticed the bit about you being an hour from hospital. I don't think you'll be able to find a mw who is happy to do a breech vb at home. I don't think the danger is great, as long as you have a midwife who knows how to do breech deliveries, but they're pretty rare these days.

I think you should absolutely go for the ECV, if positional stuff doesn't move the baby. Otherwise, you could try for a breech vb at hospital, I guess ...

(They probably need to scan to find out what sort of breech the baby is ... also to check it really is breech, as sometimes they get that wrong.)

Thanks everyone for your responses, it's finally nice to know what the risks are and to know why they keep saying I'm probably less at risk. Unfortunately I am not able to have a home birth, think that one went out the window with DS2 and I also have gestational diabetes, God I sound like a crock when I say all that so I know it's a hospital birth if I'm lucky to make it. Got there in time to get undressed last time. As for which type of breech it is I'm not sure I get scanned every visit due to GD and all he said was the feet were at the bottom, not very helpful but he was one of the few drs that was happy for me to try a vb. Just another panicky question, what happens if during vb the cord becomes prolapsed , how much time does the baby have?

agree with tuttifrutti and NQC..and 90 % success of ecv is fab!

mary cronk is / was an indie midwife, don;t know if she still practices..she has a website, she might know of indie midwives who are comfortable delivering breech babies vaginally...or give you more info..x

cord prolapse needs to be resolved quickly, not sure of exact time frame, but it is an obstetric emergency....you would have to have a c.s i believe...the midwife can help you turn so you on your front, bum in air, to take pressure off the cord and she can also assist taking pressure off the cord..but it must be resolved quickly

I had ECV at 38.5 weeks.
The midwife did not realise that the baby was breech until then.
After deciding that I would rather have a VB rather than a CS I booked in for ECV. I was told to take my hospital bag with me just incase anything went wrong (however I used to work with midwives who had nothing but good things to say about ECV).
Went into hospital and was put on a drip, to relax the uterus. I spent about an hour on this, just reading and thinking! Then the consultant swept into the room (as they do, like GOD) and told me he was going to try and turn the baby. He scanned the baby first, the just went for it. After two "tugs" (and I mean tugs, he really does pull) I felt a strange cracking sensation and he pulled the baby round. I am fairly small and only had a small bump, so I was impressed at the baby's ability to adapt to its space.
DS was born at home two weeks later, in seven minutes flat, from waking up to landing on the carpet. Midives were barely parking their cars.
All in all, I had a great experience with ECV. Following the procedure I do remember feeling like I'd been hit by a truck, it was that severe bruising pain, but right as rain after that.
Sorry for banging on, noone else had logged their experiences so thought I'd share mine!