My friend's gf is pregnant and wants to move back to Austrailia.

[SleeplessSeattle]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post, so please let me know and I'll try and get it moved. My friend's gf has just found out she is 8 weeks pregnant and has decided to keep the baby. My friend personally thinks that in an ideal world it's slightly too early in his life (they are both very early 20's and still in full time education), but will 100% stand by her and the baby; he's just having initial nerves.

However, she wants to move back to her family in Austrailia before the baby is born. They had discussed maybe moving there in a couple of years, but my friend is really upset at the idea of moving there and the child never seeing his grandparents/great-grandparents, and regardless of the baby does not want to move there yet. He's really close to his family and now doesn't know what to do, or how to proceed and I have no idea what help I can give him. Does anyone have any advice, or have been through similar? I guess it was always inevitable at some point.

lady and yes it's a simple request. He's not going to force her to do anything; he just wants to make sure they've explored all options and he's finding it hard to know if he's doing so properly as they are both scared

Can't give any specific advice, but just to say that things can work out ok with an unplanned pregnancy at this stage of their lives. I got pg in my second year at university, had only been with my boyfriend for 3 months at the time. I moved home to be with my family, he stayed at university and visited most weekends.

Long story short, we got married and have been happily so for almost 15 years and had 3 more children. Both of us have good careers, all of us happy and settled. I'm not saying it was always easy, but it can be done. The most important thing though was that my now DH was absolutely committed to our child from the start as soon as I made it clear I was keeping the baby and he utterly accepted that I needed to be supported in being and doing whatever I felt was the right thing in those early days.

It can work out.

I feel sorry for the father to be. He will be expected to financially support this child whether he sees them or not and everyone is telling the mother to be to get to the other side of the world ASAP as if he is a controlling bully who will try and ruin her life.

People are assuming he will be a controlling arse who will try and so her returning to her family once the baby is here. Maybe he is a decent guy and will support that 100%.

Sorry, that should have said, it can work out but not if he doesn't put his girlfriend and their baby first.

just that's how it's looking at the moment. He's a genuinely decent guy who loves her and wants to do the best for his child but he feels like the rugs been pulled out from under his feet. If nothing else he's a student and cannot afford to relocate to Aus for the foreseeable future. I'm friends with both of them and I can't see a way where this will end nicely, but I'm hoping there's an oversight we've missed.

really I had my baby at uni with a guy I'd been with for just over a year, we're now getting married next summer and planning our future together including more babies down the line and applying for our mortgage so I know it can be done; I think this is why he came to me for advice/help.

I was different to you in the way that I stayed at uni to have my baby and never actually went home to my family (around 100 miles away). I think he will be a great dad, he's committed and would put the child's needs first but he doesn't think a panicked move 1000's of miles when they have no plan is the best idea. Though obviously he wouldn't stop her doing what she wants to do; but he wants to be able to be there through the pregnancy and birth to look after her, he doesn't want to miss out on being a dad

Thing is though, for her moving back to her family probably is the best thing. And even if it isn't, he can't actually stop her. So anything he says that could be construed as trying to persuade her to stay which is in his best interests will be construed as unsupportive. He's in a difficult position, but if he wants to be a fully involved father he needs to do what she wants. Once the baby is born and he has established a relationship with him/her he will have more legal options if things don't work out with the girlfriend. The quickest way to make sure that it doesn't work out is to do or say anything that could possibly be unsupportive. She needs to know she can rely on him utterly to feel safe and that he will make her feel safe so that she can concentrate on meeting her baby's needs.

If I were him I wouldn't spend a minute trying to get her to do what he wants and concentrate on making it work for them both in Australia. If/when it becomes clear that going back will cause bigger problems than staying she may well work out for herself that it would be better to stay. But she will only do that if she feels she can trust him to put her and the baby first.

He's in a difficult position undoubtedly.

They need to have an honest conversation while remembering whatever they decide today isn't set in stone.

Sorry that was a bit of a ramble, it's just if my boyfriend had tried to stop me moving back to my family with the baby at this stage, I doubt we would have stayed together.

Sadly she can never trust him completely and so she's completely right to go back to Aus before the baby is born. People in love say and mean all sorts which changes once the love goes, and there is a huge chance the dad will change his mind about going to Aus and prevent her from leaving with the baby. I would never take that chance. It's awful for him and shit for the baby but that's the way it is.

Very sensible of her to move back now.

Honestly if I was the male and she went back to Aus, I would tell her she can do it alone then. Why should he miss everything and pay her money for a child that he wants to see and can't because she decided she wanted to go home knowing he wanted to stay and finish his degree so he could give her and this child the best life he can?
Sounds a little selfish on her part imo.

April have you missed the part where she risks being stuck here until the child is 18 if she has the baby here?

He should pay her money because its his kid and it needs food and shoes no matter where in the world it happens to end up through no fault of its own.
Kids aren't pay per view ]hmm]

Someone is going to miss out here, there is no way around it. If they want to stay together, then someone has to commit to living in a country thousands of miles from home. And once the baby is born, they are committed to that country for as long as
the citizen-parent says.
She is the onE actually giving birth and breastfeeding, and in the somewhat likely scenario that they split up, she will almost certainly be the resident parent. He is asking her to do all of that without her support network, and in the knowledge that she could be trapped in the UK until her child is 18, or if the child never wants to move to Oz, perhaps for the rest of her life
She needs to make that decision before the birth, and I imagine this has already been a stressful situation. Your friend should accept that she need to return to Australia well before the birth, and he should focus on how to make that work. I do hope that someone is telling her about the Hague Convention and explaining the possible implications of 'just staying for a couple of years'.

I have a Kiwi friend who has been stuck here for 14 years after she and her British husband split up when their son was a toddler - thankfully the boy is nearly grown and has decided he wants to go to New Zealand. And that's with her able to stay in the UK. This girl may not be able to stay, but the child will. She may find herself having to leave the UK without the child. Not to mention all the rest of it.

Hope she leaves soon.

Are there immigration/family lawyers who deal with this sort of situation?

Or even CAB?

Might not be a bad idea to find out exactly what the legalities are before committing.

There are, but can't really see what their role would be at the moment? Unless you mean him getting advice on whether he could live in Australia, which I agree would be sensible. But otherwise, there's not much a lawyer could do (I'm an immigration lawyer who did a bit of family years back, though nothing international) and the CAB aren't set up to assist with this kind of thing.

Before the baby is born, the mother can go anywhere and do whatever she wants. A solicitor would be a waste of time there. If the mother has dual Australian and British citizenship, she can live in the UK if she wants to, for the rest of her life. If the child is born in the UK to a British parent, it will be British. If it's born abroad, see my advice upthread. Once the baby is born, the mother can seek to remove it if she wants and the father can apply to the court for an order to prevent this. Whether he'll succeed or not would depend on a myriad of factors. The mother might well be able to take the baby abroad, the Hague Convention doesn't mean a child in this situation automatically has to stay in the country of their birth, but it does mean the parent not wanting the removal can challenge it and have the case decided in the country where the child habitually resides. This is why there's a risk for the mother in remaining. The longer the child lives in the UK, the more difficult it is to get an order allowing them to be removed. Saying that, Australia is notorious for insisting children remain there in this scenario, whereas the UK isn't. If I were choosing one of the two jurisdictions to try and get a court order to allow a child to leave, it would be here.

Obviously if he did want to challenge the child's removal after birth, a lawyer would be useful then. He'll also want to think about whether he wants parental responsibility or not. As an unmarried father, he can refuse to go on the BC if he wants, which means no PR. Equally, mother could prevent him from going on it if he wants, so he'd need to apply to court for PR.

So is she due before the end of this year? And does he graduate next summer?

Then maybe it's best for her to finish this term at Uni, see about finishing it off in aus. Her moving there before the flight restrictions kick in. Him visiting for the birth then moving there for a trial year as soon as he graduates?

Just to update this, they're in the process of applying for a permanent visa for Australia for him, and they're moving there together this August. Thanks everyone for the advice; they had no idea about The Hague convention and its implications. He's hopefully going to get a job out there and she can transfer her degree over to be finished part time at some point!

Excellent news. I hope they are successful and able to work it all out!