Probably going to cause a debate....

[FructoseTart]

But I am curious. How many pregnant ladies are still smoking and roughly how much per day?

Love it. The second someone doesn't pander or tolerate you they are in the wrong.
It is a CHOICE to smoke. No one is forcing you. You can give up if you choose to.
I had empathy to a point. Before the name calling started.
And btw, I don't feel very blessed.
I've lost three babies. I don't understand why anyone would choose to smoke knowingly putting their self and their baby at risk. There is always a risk of miscarrige. Why heighten that by smoking.

sizethree No, you are in the wrong because attitudes like yours make it much much harder for PG women to seek help to quit. That's why I said you are part of the problem. You clearly have no understanding of this issue at all and I am not sure what you are hoping to achieve here.

I haven't seen anybody calling you any names.

I am very sorry you lost your babies. FructoseTart I'm very sorry for your losses too

Gemerama - Understand it's hard to quit smoking having done it myself
You only understand how hard it was for you to quit. Everybody is different and some people find it much much harder than others.

It's also worth remembering that not every pregnancy is planned or wholeheartedly wanted. Women become pregnant in all sorts of less than ideal circumstances and for many there are more pressing priorities than quitting smoking.

There was a BIG thread about that alcohol in pregnancy programme the other day. It appears there was no really credible science behind the claims.

sizethree, I am very sorry for the babies you lost. It is a terrible pain. Many of us have been there.

You do know that I was talking about personal knowledge of addiction when I referred to being blessed. You are being a little disingenuous here. You veer between acknowledging how awful addiction is and how hard it must be to give up to a zero tolerance understanding of how somebody could smoke when pregnant. "I just don't understand it" is about right.

Reducing such a terrible thing as unexplained miscarriage and stillbirth down to a question about smoking as a causative link, serves no purpose whatsoever in supporting women to quit smoking when pregnant.

I smoked while pregnant (8-10 a day) with my first, until I had a lack of movement scare at 37 weeks. Stopped me dead in my tracks. I stayed quit while I was bf him and took it up again at about 5 months after his birth. I smoked outside at work until my bump was obvious at about 30 weeks, then only in my car after that so as not to be judged in public. Bought my cigs at a garage near work, where no one knew me, rather than the local shop at home.

Second I stopped at about 7 weeks, I had cut right down to about 4-5 a day but had some light bleeding and went for an early scan, saw a heartbeat and all looked fine so I quit that day, and stayed off the fags until she was about 16mo.

Got pregnant with third DC, got positive test on the Saturday, quit on the Monday. Stayed quit until she was almost 2, as was still bf and co sleeping. Unfortunately I am still smoking a few a day now, not planning any more pregnancies.

It seemed easier to me, to stay quit while I had a tiny baby there, rather than when I was actually pregnant. Not to mention the fact that its quite hard to get 5 mins outside alone here and there for a fag when you have a small baby!

I don't think anyone should smoke during pregnancy, in an ideal world, but things aren't that black and white are they I didn't even want to quit with my first, it wasn't that I couldn't, I just didn't want to. (no attacks for this thanks, it was 9 years ago and its done now so nothing you can say will make me feel any worse about it, I'm just being honest for the purposes of this thread)

My son doesn't appear to have suffered any lasting effects, he had some trouble with his blood sugars after birth so spent a couple of days in neonatal , and anything negative that's happened to him since my first thought has always been, I wonder if its because I smoked while pregnant with him . If you think this might happen to you too, then you should probably quit now. Save yourself 9 years of guilt.

I think there is also some truth in a point made by sizethree above, in that when you have a group of pregnant smokers together, all of whom have their own 'valid' reasons for still smoking, it makes it seem acceptable and normal and ok, when in fact, it is not.

I think there is probably a lot of truth in the ways in which we comfort and help delude each other when experiencing the same problems. Same for a lot of topics. The manner of exposition is the problem. Calling names and twisting people's words won't help with this. No stop smoking services offered by the NHS tell a woman there there or tell them smoking is fine. They strike the balance between support and information. Merely attacking a group of women actually makes them less likely succeed.

Daryl, I applaud your post. It's refreshingly honest.

Oh yeah and I lied to my midwife about smoking all along, and any other midwives I saw, right up until the night DS was born - as he was an emergency section and I told the truth because I wanted them to know the full facts so they could give him whatever help he needed at the time of birth (he was delivered at 38+1 after stopping movements for 24 hours, his ctg trace didn't show enough variation in his heartbeat so they delivered him, turns out he was wrapped around the abdomen with his very long cord)

So all the support in the world to quit wouldn't have helped me, because I hadn't told them I smoked. As I said upthread, I didnt want to quit, so didnt access any help.

When I was pregnant with DD1 my craving was cigarettes. I ended up smoking 30-40 per day. I wasn't frowned upon then (7 years ago)
I do see myself giving up in the future, I just know right now, pregnant or not, I am not in the right frame of mind to quit.
I feel good in myself for cutting down so much and will probably carry on cutting down. I smoke roll ups rather than cigarettes so the chemicals are less than would be.

Sizethree I didn't 'lynch' you. You asked how I would feel if I lost a baby and I simply replied I knew how I would feel given my experiences.

Midwifed have always known I smoke. They sent referrals and I found he stop smoking service highly invasive and felt more pressure so kind of repelled against what they said. This time round my midwife asked me if I wanted referral, I said no I will be happy to get referral myself if I feel I want to quit. She was fine. No pressure. Just told me to try and cut down. Which I have done...

I've not smoked for over two years but during this pregnancy I have had such terrible cravings I have even been dreaming about it!!
FructoseTart much respect to you for cutting down - it's a very difficult thing to do and I can only echo Plenty's sentiment that every cigarette you don't smoke makes a difference

Daryl, a lot of armpit orient thee

ok I'm going to leave that as evidence of possibly the stupidest autocorrection yet
a lot of areas do co monitoring these days

Do they, as standard, even if a woman claims she doesn't smoke? i know for example in some areas they ask women to take a Chlamydia test as standard, but you can decline if you wish (same as hiv testing in pregnancy i guess) does the CO test get offered in the same way, i wonder?

I quit as soon as I found out and I haven't had any trouble with it.

Daryl I was just presented with a CO2 monitor at my 12 week appointment. No real explanation of what it was. I thought it was a breathaliser!

Ooh that is a bit naughty, in terms of consent isn't it I guess one could argue its.not an invasive test though. Well there you are, if they'd tested me I'd have been found out early and offered intervention I suppose. Whether I'd have taken it or not is a different matter

It did list all the tests in my info pack from my 8 week appointment (which I'd not read). I suppose the good thing about 'springing' it on you is that you have less time to come up with a reason to evade it and therefore you are more likely to accept help. This only works if the support in your area is adequate which it obviously isn't in so many places.

I fear that many women come up against a judgemental midwife and the shutters come down and they refuse any further intervention. Addiction is so so complex and it really doesn't help at all when people with no experience or training wade in with 'advice'.

I smoked through two pregnancies and a year each of bf. I did cut down and didn't smoke in public due to the shame but couldn't bring myself to quit. I was in the grip of a horrendous addiction, not proud of it but I have now been quit for 6 months.

Fortunately, both dc are healthy, so far. Irl there are only a handful of people who knew I was still smoking inc midwives who weren't bothered in the slightest!

I struggled enormously to quit when I was pg. It was an unplanned pg, and it just didn't seem real for a long time. I was very sick and weirdly it was a cigarette that made me feel better. For a long time I struggled through the day, getting sicker and sicker as the day went on, and I had one cigarette in the evening. I knew it was a very bad thing to do but quite honestly, it was the only thing that gave me any 'pleasure' at that stage (being so sick and miserable, having enormous housing stress and living in people's spare rooms for half the pg)

As other pp have said, I think a lot of women get stuck having cut down to just a cigarette or two a day, or the odd random one, and they feel they can't tell anyone or feel too ashamed to ask for help. Admitting at 20+w that you are still struggling to quit feels very different from asking from help when you've just discovered you are pg.

I'm not proud of it. But this thread is quite refreshing as I think it's a topic that could do with a bit of honesty and support rather than a simple "well I quit, so so should you."

I'm not in the wrong.
Why should I support your choice to smoke during pregnancy?
Why do I need to learn to understand it?
I'm not blessed for not knowing addiction.
I'm an adult. I CHOSE to not start to do sonethibg which I know is addictive.
No one is ever forced to start smoking. No one who smokes has the choice to quit taken away from them.
My point is. Why would you even try to conceive Ruth an addiction that not only very detrimentally affects your own health but also your baby.
I'm not looking hot any sympathy when I stated I have suffered losses. But what I can't wrap my head around is that still knowing the damage smoking can do, you still choose to do it, in pregnancy.
The fact that you all mention you don't smoke in public speaks volumes.
Maybe I'm just the only one who has the gumption to speak up and call you out on how awful your behaviour is.

Sorry sizethree but I think you are projecting somewhat.

It is not easy to quit smoking. You can't just choose to give up at the drop of a hat - an addiction is an addiction and it is hard to quit.

I was just about to agree with Thurlow about how refreshing this thread was and then Sizethree posted again. What a shame as this could have been somewhere women who are still smoking come to support each other in cutting down or quitting or just being in the grip of addiction.

SizeThree you'll note that many of the women commenting have quit smoking but are posting supportive comments for those still in the grip of an addiction. No one is asking you to support anyone's choice to smoke during pregnancy but equally you do not need to remain on this thread criticising people. You could choose not to do that too.

I assume from everything you are writing that you have no experience of addiction. I tend to find that if I have no experience of an illness - either as a sufferer or a medical professional - that I don't involve myself in telling people how to find a cure.

www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/comorbidity-addiction-other-mental-illnesses/drug-addiction-mental-illness

Non smoker ousted for not agreeing with smokers. That is a shocker!
This is a pregnancy board, I have experience in pregnancy.
But as I said earlier, if your idea of a debate is to get opinions and experiences only from people who are likeminded, then you're never going to get a true cross section on the subject.
But Yeh, I'll leave you lot to dwell and be martyers to the choices you've made. As society is so awful for judging you and you are all such saints.

Why are you actually on this thread, sizethree ?
Your posts come across as rude and judgemental, and completely lacking in understanding. Smoking is an addiction and there are a variety of social influences and pressures that cause people to start.

And for the record, no, I don't smoke and never have.

The thing with smoking is it is an addiction.

People smoke for many reasons and, as it is an addiction, they use it for a crutch for many reasons too. Smoking when stressed or upset is incredibly common.

So you're pregnant, and you haven't had that magic urge to quit, and you have smoked - that makes you stressed and upset. Because it is a bad thing to smoke while pregnant, no one is disagreeing with that at all.

Which puts you exactly in the mindset where you want to rely on the crutch you might have been using for many, many years: nicotine.

It is a vicious circle, and the more judgment there is, the harder many women find it to quit.

People aren't hounding out the non-smoker, sizethree. They are trying to have a sensible and supportive conversation about why some women find it difficult to quit smoking while pregnant.

(Though some of your assumptions, such as that they might start smoking while an adult, not a teenager where you don't think as rationally, or that all women actively TTC and so have an opportunity to quit before getting pg, should clearly have occurred to you as false)

Well answer this... What ossicle reason and justification goes through your head when you know you are pregnant but you are lighting a cigarette?
There is no justification for that. At all.
Addiction can be overcome by support and will power. To continue to smoke well into a pregnancy is inexcusable.
It seems like a lot if this thread isn't women supporting eachother to give up. It's women saying 'I got away with it, my child is fine.'
Why am I even in this thread? Because you're cushioning yourselves in a cloud of denial and it's farcical.