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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Reduced movement 34+3 what would you do?

81 replies

Firstpregnancy2014 · 19/10/2014 18:36

I'm 34 and a half weeks,
Yesterday I noticed baby not as active as usual. He normally moves absolutely loads and makes me really uncomfortable, today i felt a light movement this morning but still notbing much so rung the day unit.
They asked me to come in at 1.30.

At 3pm I was still sat waiting for any sort of direction or explanation. Finally at 4 they put me on a monitor for 45 minutes. He moved a tiny bit in this time but still the movements are unlike his usual.
Midwife came to tell me the day unit was shutting and if I was still experiencing the same kind of reduced movement tomorrow to ring up and they would scan me. Have tried everything since I got home to get him to move like normal and nothing
Options are -

Go to work tomorrow and leave if I'm not satisfied to go to the hospital

Organise now for someone else to open up at work and ring hospital first thing and insist on a scan.

I'm abit worried as he normally is really active and I understand he's getting bigger now but on Friday he was fine !
They made me feel like such a pain in the ass at the hospital !

OP posts:
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CheeseandGherkins · 20/10/2014 13:16

You don't get less movement towards the end because there is less room, that's a dangerous myth.

porcito · 20/10/2014 13:25

Definitely insist on having a scan. At 38 weeks I felt less movement, doubted if to go in as had been SO many times. Her heartrate wasn't dangerously low but the scan showed low low amniotic fluid that needed dealing with.

Hope everything's ok.

FishRabbit · 20/10/2014 13:25

You 100% don't get less movements towards the end. You get the same amount of movements but they might feel slightly different. (imagine you're in a massive box which gets a tiny bit smaller each day, you would do the same amount of moving about, it would just be harder to dance around, you'd just squirm.)

It makes me cross to see people asking if OP has a doppler. They aren't a good idea, the ones which you can buy online are generally RUBBISH and you're not trained to use them unless you're a midwife/obstetrician. They also show a tiny snapshot of that second that you listen in.

Think about it, baby's changing their movements is a sign that something isn't right, it's the only way it has of telling us that it's feeling grotty. If you saw an ill person in the street who was telling you they felt ill would you listen to their heart and then just wander off because it sounds ok? No. You'd get them investigated further.

OP, I really hope you've gone back and had another monitoring, i'd be interested to know what hospital you're going to because the lack of BP and wee check is concerning. What if you've secretly got pre-eclampsia and that's why your baby isn't happy? Just keep nagging, any midwife who's any good would want to see you. I'd happily see women all day long who were concerned about movements if it would mean saving one family a loss.

x

plinkyplonks · 20/10/2014 13:43

OP any luck with the hospital ?

Firstpregnancy2014 · 20/10/2014 13:53

Was sat back in the day unit at 8.30 am. 45 minutes of monitoring, a few dips in heart rate but midwife said that was just due to the monitor ?
Still no urine samples or blood pressure and I have a scan booked in at 4pm so I have to go back then. Still got a very quiet baby so hoping the scan just shows he's a in a weird position

OP posts:
ElleDubloo · 20/10/2014 13:53

I'd also like to know which hospital this is!

It's absolutely awful. You were right to go in, and the way they treated you was inexcusable.

I recently had this myself - I felt reduced movement at about 38 weeks, rang the birth centre and was asked to come in straight away. It was the first time I called with any sort of problem. I went in and they saw me within 10 minutes, hooked me up to the CTG machine for 20 minutes, took a urine sample and did nursing observations. After all that, the baby was shown to be fine, and I felt silly for going in, but they said I did the right thing and they were more than happy to check me out.

ElleDubloo · 20/10/2014 13:54

I'm glad you've got a scan coming up. I hope everything turns out to be OK. xx

plinkyplonks · 20/10/2014 15:10

Glad to hear your finally getting a scan :) Good luck OP :)

magicpixie · 20/10/2014 15:16

I would go straight down there
don't take for an answer

don't worry about being pushy
its not like they will remember you

good luck
hope all is well

BuckskinnedAstronaut · 20/10/2014 15:21

I hope all is well -- fingers crossed for you, OP.

It is ridiculous -- think about all the publicity there is around SIDS, health visitors tutting at you if you even look as though you might be considering co-sleeping... and yet stillbirth is much more common than SIDS and when a pregnant woman such as you does all the right things and alerts all the right people to a sudden drop in fetal movements all she gets is "oh, we're shutting the unit for the day so it'll be 24 hours until you can have a scan".

ShadowKat · 20/10/2014 15:23

Glad to hear you're getting a scan, hope it turns out okay.

I'm surprised at the lack of urine or bp tests though, I got asked for a urine sample and had a blood pressure cuff stuck on my arm every time I went into the maternity unit. It's not like they're particularly difficult or time consuming tests for a midwife to do.

magicpixie · 20/10/2014 15:45

well said buck

good luck for the scan

how the fuck do they get away with taking this long to do a scan is beyond me

also, just out of interest
what should be done when someone reports loss of movement

should it be ctg then scan if deemed needed

what can they tell from scans that they cant tell from ctg,
except I know scans can show blood flow through the placenta and babys fluid levels

what else can a scan show that a ctg cant

reason I asked is I had many ctgs with my youngest
because of previous nnd with ds1

and even when ds2 did not meet the criteria of the ctg

they simply kept me on the ctg until ds2 did

so some days I was on the ctg for hours
can this be right?
should they have proceeded to a scan if he didn't meet the criteria after say an hour?

they fobbed me off saying oh hes probably asleep.......

luckily ds2 is here safe and well
so sad ds1 is not too

but ds1 died from heart problems, nothing to do with loss of movement
of course it ,made ds2 pregnancy tourture

I'm so so so glad ds2 is here safe and well
but im wondering if they really took the appriorate care when they just left us on ctg for hours

parsnip5 · 20/10/2014 16:13

The hospital have actually followed the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists guidelines for reduced foetal movement (see pages 6-8 :
www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/gtg57rfm25022011.pdf)
A CTG has been performed and a scan has been arranged within 24 hours due to ongoing maternal perception of reduced foetal movements. I think that it would be helpful for PPs to check the guidelines before telling OP that the hospital is effectively dangerously negligent, as this can really break down the patient-HCP relationship and if OP is planning a hospital delivery she doesn't need her trust in their expertise undermined.
I think that there's probably been a breakdown in communication between the HCPs and OP, which has led to ongoing worry rather than reassurance that OP is being taken seriously and that baby's wellbeing is top priority.
OP, I hope the scan shows LO wriggling away and all well, and well done for going to get checked in the first place.

parsnip5 · 20/10/2014 16:14

www.rcog.org.uk/globalassets/documents/guidelines/gtg57rfm25022011.pdf

Hopefully this time the link works

BuckskinnedAstronaut · 20/10/2014 16:17

magicpixie, I believe the current NICE guidelines are:

------

What is the optimal management of women with reduced fetal movements?

The initial goal of antenatal fetal surveillance in cases of reduced fetal movements is to exclude fetal death. Subsequent to this, the aim is to exclude fetal compromise and to identify pregnancies at risk of adverse pregnancy outcome while avoiding unnecessary interventions.

What should be included in the clinical history?

Upon presenting with reduced fetal movements, a relevant history should be taken to assess a woman's risk factors for stillbirth and fetal growth restriction (fetal growth restriction).

If after discussion with the clinician it is clear that the woman does not have reduced fetal movements, there are no other risk factors for stillbirth and there is the presence of a fetal heart rate on auscultation, she can be reassured. However, if the woman still has concerns, she should be advised to attend her maternity unit.

A history of reduced fetal movements should be taken, including the duration of reduced fetal movements, whether there has been absence of fetal movements and whether this is the first occasion the woman has perceived reduced fetal movements. The history must include a comprehensive stillbirth risk evaluation, including a review of the presence of other factors associated with an increased risk of stillbirth, such as multiple consultations for reduced fetal movements, known fetal growth restriction, hypertension, diabetes, extremes of maternal age, primiparity, smoking, placental insufficiency, congenital malformation, obesity, racial/ethnic factors, poor past obstetric history (e.g. fetal growth restriction and stillbirth), genetic factors and issues with access to care. Clinicians should be aware that a woman's risk status is fluid throughout pregnancy and that women should be transferred from low-risk to high-risk care programmes if complications occur. If after discussion with the clinician it is clear that the woman does not have reduced fetal movements, in the absence of further risk factors and the presence of a normal fetal heart rate on auscultation, there should be no need to follow up with further investigations.

What should be covered in the clinical examination?

If a woman presents with reduced fetal movements in the community setting with no facility to auscultate the fetal heart, she should be referred immediately to her maternity unit for auscultation.

When a woman presents with reduced fetal movements in the community or hospital setting, an attempt should be made to auscultate the fetal heart using a handheld Doppler device to exclude fetal death.

Clinical assessment of a woman with reduced fetal movements should include assessment of fetal size with the aim of detecting small for gestational age fetuses.

The key priority when a woman presents with reduced fetal movements is to confirm fetal viability. In most cases, a handheld Doppler device will confirm the presence of the fetal heart beat. This should be available in the majority of community settings in which a pregnant woman would be seen by a midwife or general practitioner. The fetal heart beat needs to be differentiated from the maternal heart beat. This is easily done in most cases by noting the difference between the fetal heart rate and the maternal pulse rate. If the presence of a fetal heart beat is not confirmed, immediate referral for ultrasound scan assessment of fetal cardiac activity must be undertaken. If the encounter with the woman has been over the telephone and there is thus no additional reassurance of auscultation of the fetal heart, the woman should be advised to report for further assessment.

Methods employed to detect small for gestational age fetuses include abdominal palpation, measurement of symphysis–fundal height and ultrasound biometry. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) guidelines on the investigation and management of the small for gestational age fetus recommend use of a customised fundal height chart. Consideration should be given to the judicious use of ultrasound to assess fetal size in women in whom clinical assessment is likely to be less accurate, for example those with a raised body mass index. As pre-eclampsia is also associated with placental dysfunction, it is prudent to measure blood pressure and test urine for proteinuria in women with reduced fetal movements.

What is the role of cardiotocography?

After fetal viability has been confirmed and history confirms a decrease in fetal movements, arrangements should be made for the woman to have a cardiotocography to exclude fetal compromise if the pregnancy is over 28+0 weeks of gestation.

What is the role of ultrasound scanning?

Ultrasound scan assessment should be undertaken as part of the preliminary investigations of a woman presenting with reduced fetal movements after 28+0 weeks of gestation if the perception of reduced fetal movements persists despite a normal cardiotocography or if there are any additional risk factors for fetal growth restriction/stillbirth.

Ultrasound scan assessment should include the assessment of abdominal circumference and/or estimated fetal weight to detect the small for gestational age fetus, and the assessment of amniotic fluid volume.

Ultrasound should include assessment of fetal morphology if this has not previously been performed and the woman has no objection to this being carried out.

Is there any role for the biophysical profile?

There may be a role for the selective use of biophysical profile in the management or investigation of reduced fetal movements.

*What is the optimal surveillance method for women who have presented with reduced fetal movements in whom investigations are normal?

Women should be reassured that 70% of pregnancies with a single episode of reduced fetal movements are uncomplicated.

There are no data to support formal fetal movement counting (kick charts) after women have perceived reduced fetal movements in those who have normal investigations.

What is the optimal management of the woman who presents recurrently with reduced fetal movements?

When a woman recurrently perceives reduced fetal movements, her case should be reviewed to exclude predisposing causes.

When a woman recurrently perceives reduced fetal movements, ultrasound scan assessment should be undertaken as part of the investigations.

There are no studies to determine whether intervention (e.g. delivery or further investigation) alters perinatal morbidity or mortality in women presenting with recurrent reduced fetal movements. Therefore, the decision whether or not to induce labour at term in a woman who presents recurrently with reduced fetal movements when the growth, liquor volume and cardiotocography appear normal must be made after careful consultant-led counselling of the pros and cons of induction on an individualised basis.

BuckskinnedAstronaut · 20/10/2014 16:22

So as parsnip says in the OP's case they have probably (assuming that there are no additional risk factors) followed the guidelines in terms of what they have actually done (i.e. taken history, confirmed fetal heartbeat, carried out cardiotocography and then, given a continued maternal perception of reduced fetal movements, proceeded to ultrasound scan). But the explanation of what they are doing and why has been very lacking.

WingsClipped · 20/10/2014 16:30

OP thinking of you. Hope the scan went well and that your LO is just having a quiet day x

ByeByeButterfly · 20/10/2014 16:31

I hope everything went ok with scan op.

Jersey37 · 20/10/2014 17:33

I hope the scan went ok... I spent 1.5 hours in the assessment centre this morning... they were doing a weekly BP check (which was normal) but the babies heart rate was a little high. They put me on the CTG to monitor for 20 min... which was a nightmare. She kept pushing the monitor away from her. LOL! and it kept losing the heart beat. So yes - if they do that there can be dips! I had to hold the monitor and really push it in. I could feel her really elbowing it out the way... it was so funny in a way. I think she was saying - I'm fine in here just back off! Kind of echoing mummies feelings sometimes! I also (by coincidence) I had a scan booked (growth) for this afternoon... and we could see exactly what she was doing... exactly what we thought... moving her little hands all over the place... making life hard for the sonographer - they were so patient! I would have thought that as long as the heart rate is good, that baby might just be really comfortable. Also - I'm not sure about you, but sometimes I don't notice movement. It is only when I put my hands on my bump that I can feel it going on... same when hubby feels - I can't feel it - but he can.

NovemberRainbow · 20/10/2014 17:44

Hope the scan went well OP.

plinkyplonks · 20/10/2014 18:42

Any luck OP?

BBQsAreSooooOverrated · 20/10/2014 18:47

Hope scan went ok, hospital sound pretty poor.
Definitely pester if you're not happy about the movements.

magicpixie · 20/10/2014 19:12

bucks and parsnip, thanks for the linkand info
I have actually read these nice guidelines before

but it still doesn't really make sense to me, that if after an hour on the ctg, why they just leave you on the ctg until you do meet the
criteria

surely after an hour of not meeting the criteria a dr or something should come

magicpixie · 20/10/2014 19:13

hope the scan went ok op
thinking of you

Firstpregnancy2014 · 20/10/2014 20:03

Hi everyone :) Thankyou so much for your help over the past 24 hours ! Scan went well, baby has really got himself in a funny position and is facing my back. Sonographer did everything she could to get him to move but he wasn't for budging she said he must just be having a lazy period because everything seemed absolutely fine ! Was so reassuring to hear that. Still havnt had urine etc tested but they did their best to assure me everything's fine

OP posts:
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