Can't decide

[cantdecide83]

Hi everyone,
I'm aware that the subject of heavy drinking in early pregnancy has been discussed many times before so I don't really know anything new that can be said.
I recently found out I was 4 weeks pregnant which would have been great but for the fact I had been drinking so heavily within the last couple of weeks. My husband and I decided to have one last holiday blowout before ttc in late summer. Drink led to one instance of unprotected sex and two weeks later I had a positive pregnancy test. I had been drinking an average of 10 units a day for those two weeks. Never drunk but maybe that says something about me.
I've spent the week since my positive test in tears. I'm so certain I've damaged the baby that I'm booked in for an abortion consultation next week. I don't want an abortion but I also don't want to have damaged my baby. I've tried to think positive thoughts about the baby but it doesn't work. I know that if anything at all is wrong with it I'll blame myself. I just don't think I can cope with 9 months of feeling this bad.
I'd love a fresh start but it seems like that's an impossibility now. If I have an abortion I don't know if I'll have regrets and I have higher risks of pre term birth next pregnancy.
I've read all the stories of people who drank at least as much as me for even longer but it doesn't make me feel better. Nothing makes me feel better.
I'm sorry to unload, particularly for those people desperate for a baby who can't believe my stupidity. Believe me, you couldn't hate me more than I hate myself.

[lornathewizzard]

This anxiety you're feeling is something I think you should talk with a qualified professional about. Anxiety comes in many forms and many different strengths. There is no shame in not being able to figure this out yourself, I think if any of us where feeling like you are now we would need help also. Please discuss this further with your GP or another professional. They can help you get to the bottom of the issue and move forward, whatever that may involve. I hope you can start to feel better and you and your family can make the best decisions for your future. Hugs and positive thoughts for you.

[cantdecide83]

So, I thought I was doing better. Yesterday evening was great. Somehow everything lifted and I spent the evening discussing the baby's development and our hopes for the future. Felt brilliant. I was actually going to post here to say how helpful everyone had been and how big a difference it had made.
Then today. And I feel worse than ever. The thing is I don't think I'm overestimating the risk. I had about 130 units in two weeks, which sounds ridiculous even for my own health when I write it down. I think there's a very high chance that it's done something.
I know people talk about no transfer until the placenta is working but that can't be the case because otherwise they wouldn't say week 3 post fertilisation is the most dangerous.
I guess I'm just unloading because I don't know what to do.

[Pobblewhohasnotoes]

Have you arranged to talk to someone? What about BPAS? You need to talk about your anxiety with health professionals. There will always be something to worry about OP, so you need to talk. Please don't rush into anything.

[babymouse]

Please seek out some support from a health care professional - it sounds like you have some serious anxiety that you need to get a handle on before you make a choice about this

[squizita]

"They" say a lot of things: please do not google or use any unreliable websites. Certainly it is not proven at all that the time immediately following fertilization (when the embryo is floating around and yet to implant) because if that were the case fetal alcohol syndrome would be through the roof in the UK and Central/Eastern Europe - where women drink habitually when not pregnant. Pretty much all unplanned young pregnancies, for example. The reality simply does not show that.

150 units in 2 weeks - although a lot for you - is surprisingly common for example for people on holiday. Say a glass of wine or pint of cider is 2.5 units (it is) and you have 4-6 a day (easy to do at certain times in our culture) - in 2 weeks you'd be up to 150. Think of all the Christmas babies and honeymoon babies - seriously MANY women would be knocking that amount back before they knew. Yes, some women do sadly have miscarriages and disabled children - but so have, sadly, several teetotal women I've known and worked with who have never touched a drop in their lives.

I seriously think you have overestimated the risk of disability and underestimated the risk of anxiety... you are trying to rationalise and justify the obsession with disability by finding 'evidence' for it. This is a cruel trick anxiety and obsessive behaviour plays on us
Please seek help for your anxiety.

[MrsMogginsMinge]

I agree with everyone else that you need help with your anxiety.

But Mother Nature is on your side here. We are talking about the two weeks between conception and missed period/positive test - what seasoned TTCers call the Two Week Wait. While some observe pregnancy 'rules' during that period, you really don't need to. Put crudely, for about 10 days or so after conception your baby is a ball of identical cells floating down the Fallopian tube. If one or two cells are damaged, replacement ones can be grown. If too many are damaged, the pregnancy will fail shortly thereafter. It's an all or nothing thing. Shortly before your BFP the blastocyst will start to implant but you won't share a blood supply yet. Again, you could I suppose interrupt the implantation process with booze but if it implants, you're in business. You stopped drinking by the time you shared a blood supply and the important stuff, like organs, were being grown.

It's a clever system, and means that women can't really do any harm before they know they're pregnant. I drank a fair bit when I was '3 weeks pregnant' (I.e. 7 days post ovulation) but I'm not worried at all because I wasn't really pregnant yet - unless and until you implant, it's entirely out if your hands.

Please have some counselling. Soon enough you'll be enjoying your pregnancy. Congratulations!

[cantdecide83]

I think I feel particularly bad now because I got my husband's hopes up. We were happy discussing the baby last night and he just kept saying how happy he was that I was back. And now I'm back thinking that abortion is the only option because of the mess I've made.
I don't feel guilty about the amount I drank because it was meant to be our last baby free holiday but it is a massive amount. Mostly just over a few hours in the evening too so that's heavy and binge drinking.
I still have the nhs appointment on Thursday to discuss the abortion. I don't know how much discussion they have regarding my reasons. I was going to phone nofas earlier to ask about foetal alcohol syndrome but then it seemed pointless. They can't say it's definitely ok so it's no help.
I know if I had a child with a disability I would love it and I would learn to cope but in this case I would blame myself for any disability. A lot of the possible issues are developmental so I feel like I would be this worked up constantly until the child's about school age!
Yesterday evening gave me an idea of how pregnancy should be. It was lovely to be able to have joy and hope about this tiny being we've created. I just worry that I'll never have that. I can't go on like this.

[MrsMogginsMinge]

Honestly OP, you won't have caused subtle developmental brain damage. Your baby didn't have a brain at the time. It was a ball of a few thousand cells floating down the Fallopian tube. It is busy growing a brain now, and I'm sure you are living healthily now. The only damage you could potentially cause would have resulted in miscarriage. If that hasn't happened (and even if it had, it might be for entirely coincidental genetic reasons) you are fine. Totally fine.

The thing is, I could tell you this all day but until you deal with your anxiety (which is far beyond normal maternal anxiety) you will get no further. Please get the help you need. Good luck x

[cantdecide83]

Thank you. I'll maybe see if I can find some counseling places. I can't cope with feeling like this so there needs to be some sort of resolution.

[prettywhiteguitar]

I think you should really consider counseling ASAP my dp suffers anxiety and they way you are talking it sounds like you are in the middle of a crisis. You simply can't solve this on your own, your family can't solve it.

Please look for a counsellor who deals with anxiety so they can help you. Xx

[Pobblewhohasnotoes]

But if you terminated and got pregnant again what would the next worry be about? You'd eaten the wrong food? Or maybe lifted something heavy, or had a hot bath or a million and one other things. This is why you need to deal with the anxiety. How about having an early scan for reassurance?

[offbeatgirl]

I'd second what MrsMoggins and others have said: reassuringly (for you, and for all of us who've overindulged before discovering we were pregnant!) at the early point in your pregnancy when you were drinking, your baby did not have a brain or liver etc which could be damaged by drink. Rather, your baby was a bundle of undifferentiated cells: if you did manage to kill a few cells by drink, and they'd simply be replaced. If you genuinely had done irreparable damage, you'd have miscarried. To cause FAS, you'd have to drink fairly heavily later in pregnancy when the baby has developed organs which alcohol can damage. I'm relying here on Emily Oster's recent book, Expecting Better. This weighs up scientific evidence on all kinds of pregnancy risks, and is very sensible and reassuring on a number of points. You might find it helpful?

I have terminated a pregnancy in the past because my baby was very sick indeed. I very much wanted the baby, and this was an incredibly painful decision. The only thing that makes it bearable is that I was advised by the consultant that my baby wouldn't survive to birth. I fully support women's right to have an abortion due to a wide range of factors -social, economic, etc, not just medical reasons. However, if you want this baby and you nevertheless chose to terminate the pregnancy only on the grounds that you fear that your early drinking has damaged the baby - even though medical evidence would suggest otherwise - then I'm worried that you might later regret your decision. In the highly unlikely event that scans/tests subsequently found something very wrong with your baby, you would be offered the option to terminate your pregnancy. In other words, there's no need to rush into a hasty decision.

Please get as much medical advice as you can, so that you can make a fully informed decision which you are comfortable with. Please also get as much emotional support as you can from friends and family xx

[cantdecide83]

Pobble- the one good thing about the termination appointment is that I get an early scan! To be honest I've freaked myself out so much that I don't think it'll make any difference. Most brain problems can't be seen on scans- even at the 20 week scan- so I don't think it'll make me feel any better. I am worried that I would panic about anything but I don't think I would. In this pregnancy I've already eaten brie and taken vitamin A before I knew not to. Those things don't worry me in the slightest. The excess alcohol terrifies me. So hopefully if I did have another pregnancy I wouldn't worry because I wouldn't have drunk.
Offbeat- I am so sorry to hear about your baby. It shames me that I'm driving myself crazy over something that hasn't happened when people like yourself have had to deal with real trauma. I can't imagine how bad that must have been.

Part of me agrees with the idea that I shouldn't have done any damage because it was so early. When I look at the development book I have it shows a whole lot of cell division but not much else at that stage. The brain development doesn't seem to start until week 3 after fertilisation. But surely I could have damaged cells which would then be faulty before the organ development stage meaning everything that comes after would be faulty? I don't understand why if it is as simple as miscarriage or fine for the first couple of weeks the books can't say that.

[squizita]

Most of the books do say that. As PP have said: you are having an anxiety/obsessive crisis - whatever you read your brain will process as risk.
I've been there, I know what its like.

Please see your GP. Please frankly and honestly explain your thoughts.
It is unusual and irrational behaviour to terminate a wanted child because of an unproven and indeed unidentified health risk you've become obsessed by "maybe" happening. It is not rational behaviour. I am unsure if a family planning clinic would even be allowed to advise you to terminate based on this as you want the child.

[Louise990]

I can completely empathise and sympathise with how you're feeling. I agree with others when they say that the anxiety is the route of your outlook on this situation rather than the fear of being the parent of a child who is disabled. I have a very similar train of thought to the one you have and I know how awful and consuming it is to feel this way.

Please please please do not abort your baby for this reason alone, I don't want to make you feel worse but this sort of action is what would fill you with guilt for the rest of your life, not having a child who has an extremely tiny chance of being less than "perfect" - whatever that means. Even if you were to conceive again in the future and did everything by the book but your child still developed autism, I can assure you that you'd find something that you did in those 9 months and blame yourself.

I found out I was pregnant at 5 weeks and during this time I was taking a very strong dose of antidepressants daily AND if I hadn't been doing this then I would have also been drinking quite heavily as it coincided with the Christmas/NY period. I felt guilty too but I was able to forgive myself and realise that I couldn't blame myself if anything was to go wrong with the pregnancy. I'm now 30+2 weeks pregnant and my baby is developing and growing perfectly. I've not allowed myself to feel guilty since about taking ADs before realising I was pregnant because it really isn't something I had control over and neither did you.

Op the fact that you are worrying so much about this now shows that you would be an amazing, caring mummy and that is the only thing that you should focus on here. I know a million people could say the same thing I've said and it still wouldn't help or change the way you think but if there's anything I've learnt during pregnancy it's that nothing is ever going to be perfect.

Don't write this pregnancy off as something you could have worked better at. The little face looking up at you in 8 months will never know anything other than the fact that YOU are his or her entire world and that really is all that matters here.

Also searching for answers and reassurance on websites is the absolute devil when you feel as low as you do now - I'm going through a lot of anxiety over something at the moment and have been torturing myself by researching the "what ifs?"

I really hope you can feel better about this. Feel free to message me if you want to talk x

[MissHC]

OP I conceived DD whilst on holiday - all in resort, free alcohol. You get the picture. I drank at least 7 cocktails a day. From my dates, she was conceived the first few days. She's 7 months now and very healthy.

Please get some help for your anxiety. If you terminate this pregnancy, I have a feeling you will be the same for your next pregnancy and worry just as much, for different reasons. There are ALWAYS things you can worry over! But you need to get professional help for your anxiety.

[TwelveLeggedWalk]

Please cancel the abortion appointment, and instead make an early scan appointment and a counselling appointment.

I know it's not something we like to talk about, but the NHS antenatal scans and tests are there for a reason besides the chance to see your baby. If there is a problem with your baby, it should be spotted in good time for you to terminate if you feel that's what you need to do. But then you would be doing it with CONCRETE information and professional medical advice.

If your scans show no problems, as is the case for the huge majority of women who don't adjust their lifestyle during early pregnancy, then some counselling will set you up for mentally and physically healthy pregnancy.

There is no reason on earth to terminate on a hunch, and I'd be very concerned about any clinic that let you do it.

[ShovettyMcShovetty]

OP I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through. I can't advise you at all and would just urge you to please seek professional help.

[cantdecide83]

This morning I was pretty settled on the abortion. It's funny though, once I settle on that I become calmer and then start thinking about having the baby.
I've read so many stories now of people who've drunk as much as me and had healthy babies. But it's not guaranteed. I know a healthy baby is never guaranteed but I don't think I could live with problems that i've caused and could have dealt with. So, for all I really don't want to have the abortion, it seems like a better option than having a baby damaged by drink. I know that's not definite but it is a possibility.
I'm beginning to wonder if I just shouldn't be pregnant, the hormones don't suit me. I had to come off the pill a few years ago because they all made me slightly mental. Nothing compared to how I feel now but not right.
I don't want to have regrets and spend the rest of my life thinking about the choices I made now. There's just not a single choice I feel comfortable with.

[cantdecide83]

And I don't think an early scan, or any scan, would help because they don't show what I'm most terrified of- brain damage. I can't live with having done that to my child.

[squizita]

but I don't think I could live with problems that i've caused and could have dealt with.

YOU HAVE NOT CAUSED ANYTHING.

I am seriously worried about your mental health, OP.

Please please seek help. You have perenatal anxiety, you are becoming obsessed and irrational.

[M27J5M]

When preg with my son I found out at 7 weeks, the weekend before I had a total party weekend, went wild, spoke to my doctor and he told me it was fine as up till the 10(ish) week mark baby doesn't get much from you so the chances of damaging my baby were extremely slim to none! He's now 5 and totally fine :)

[cantdecide83]

Squizita- I appreciate that everything might be ok but it can't categorically be stated that I haven't caused anything. I drank well above the recommended guidelines- which include the two week window- so I could have caused a problem.

[Familyguyfan]

I'm going to say this and hope you take it as encouragingly as I mean it.

You desperately need to see someone about your anxiety. If I didn't think this were anxiety based I would be pretty scathing to you as frankly, you are talking nonsense. y
You are going around in circles clinging to jibberish and half truths to support your own nonsense. However, I think you have an anxiety issue and therefore I accept this is inevitable.

However, by ignoring your anxiety issue and focusing on the abortion you are really doing yourself no favours.

I will leave it at that as the things I think you need to hear are not pleasant and your anxiety is clearly affecting you deeply and I don't want to add to it. Go see your doctor, not about your pregnancy but about your anxiety.

I should add I am a strong supporter of a woman's right to choose but for the right reasons. This is absolute twaddle that you are trying yourself in knots with.

Best of luck

[cantdecide83]

Familyguyfan,
I'm well aware that I'm obsessing and tying myself in knots. Why do you think I'm talking nonsense though? Even the NHS site talks about not drinking over 4 units a week in order to avoid FASD. I agree that it looks as if FAS is only for alcholics/people who drink throughout pregnancy but FAE seems possible. I'm not saying my baby definitely has it, I just can't see how it can be ruled out definitively. Why not just say whatever you want to say? Maybe some tough talk will do me some good.