Soooo, wine...

[Loveallmyboys]

Wondering what your thoughts are on a glass of wine with dinner?
I'm 16+3 and a glass of plonk would go down pretty well right now...
I didn't drink at all with ds1, had a small one, once or twice while out for dinner with ds2 but feeling over cautious with this one for some reason.
What say you?

seeing a very pregnant girl in a nightclub with a drink in each hand

Mind you I've had snoopers address me walking from the bar in the pub 'with a drink in each hand':
-For staggering read waddling
-Drink 1 a pint of lager FOR THE DH
-Drink 2 a Becks Blue (0% fake beer) for me
...they actually said something to their friend about me. I corrected them (politely) and they muttered I shouldn't be out in a pub anyway.
It was a shopping centre pub on a Saturday hardly shocking.

Personally, after attending some training on foetal alcohol syndrome I absolutely would not risk it.

The general gist of the course was that ANY amount of alcohol can cause birth defects. and this is at any stage of pregnancy. with the first 2 weeks being the absolute highest risk which is scary given that most women don't find out they are expecting until 4+ weeks.

My advice would be to ask your midwife/GP and hopefully they have some advice for you

I've probably averaged out a small glass of wine or beer every week or so since about 15 weeks. Less than 125ml in that glass - I usually have it as a spritzer, or as a shandy though. I had a tiny glass of Prosecco last night for example. Thing is, it makes me feel a) drunk quite quickly - as in REALLY quickly, 2 mouthfuls in, which tends to put me off drinking much more, and b) gives me heartburn, which means I really have to WANT it to put up with the effects.

natalie - wouldn't that mean a very high proportion of the population would have fas though? Which it doesn't.

On pg no 3. I have always done no alcohol first 12 weeks then small glasses of wine approx once a week from about 14 weeks. I think it is quite a personal decision but I feel that a lot of newspaper reporting on issues like this is very patriachial and would be different if men carried babies.

I wouldn't eat a green potato in pregnancy, or take a medicine that might have side-effects for my baby, so I wouldn't drink either. It's 9 months of your life, to potentially affect 80+ years of theirs. But then I've worked with a child with fetal alcohol syndrome so perhaps I'm more cautious than most!!

Things aren't always that simple though zirca.

Aspirin is a major no no in most pregnancies but some people have to take it to carry babies safely to term. I personally feel there is always compromise and grey areas in every single thing in life and pragmatic behaviour will save us all with pregnancy as no exception.

Squizita-I know what you mean! People can be so quick to judge! I'm even guilty of it on occasion. I went to buy my dad cigarets this morning and felt like I had to explain that they weren't for me, since I'm spotting an obvious baby Buddha! I could see the cashier looking at my tummy then at the cigarettes...

Fetal alcohol syndrome is a very different thing to a few glasses of wine during pregnancy. Many pregnant women have at least one or two glasses of wine or cider or beer or whatever. Very few children have fas. You have to drink a lot to give a baby fas, and it's irresponsible scaremongering to say otherwise.

As squiz pointed out up thread, if there are any problems including miscarriage, it's very easy for a woman to blame herself with potentially serious psychological repercussions and the fact of it is that most problems in pregnancy can't be prevented.

With my first pregnancy I had the occasional glass of wine, probably 1 very small glass of wine every 2 weeks. I waited until the middle of the 2nd trimester.

Ds is 18 months old now and developing normally, he's hit all his milestones early and seems to be a bright, happy little chap. I didn't realise when I was pregnant the first time how much I'd analyze my child's development, I don't believe the occasional glass of wine would effect a baby, but if my child did have a developmental delay or other challenges I think I would look for things I had done to explain the child's problems.

I'm pregnant with dc2 at the moment and this time I haven't had any alcohol, not because I believe I would be damaging my baby but to save myself from possible mummy guilt in the future, being around lots of other babies has made me realise that sn or disabilities are a very real possibility and so often there is no obvious explanation.

I do find that I feel tipsy when I drink alcohol free beer, but I think it's just the association I have with the taste of beer.

'Mummy guilt'

It makes me mad!

Where's 'daddy guilt'?!

Weren't women in the past advised to drink Guinness for the iron? Smoking wasn't seen as bad then either and it's not like a whole generation has FAS and other terrible issues.

My personal view is that getting drunk while pregnant is a very bad idea. Having one small drink with food is fine.

Where's 'daddy guilt'?!

Exactly. Although to be fair to DH if he had tried to stop me from having a small glass of wine when I was pg with DD I wouldn't have been impressed . But certainly from birth onwards I can say with certainty that society doesn't have anywhere near the same level of expectation of him wrt DD's successes (or failures)!

As East points out, the level of paranoia and mummy-blame is a recent invention. I do wonder if it's part of a wider stepford-esque backlash.

with the first 2 weeks being the absolute highest risk which is scary given that most women don't find out they are expecting until 4+ weeks.

Using the conventional measuring system, the first 2 weeks you aren't actually pregnant! Do you mean weeks 3-4?
Bear in mind that these courses will have a target audience and explicit purpose.
The fact that we don't have very high levels of FAS in the UK and as you say most women don't know for the first two weeks, where is their data for this? What is the point telling women this too: what are they saying "if you have an unplanned pregnancy you might consider aborting for birth defects?".

I'm under consultants who train fetal medicine specialists - they feel the greatest risk is indeed in the 1st trimester but between weels 5-12 when the brain and spinal column starts to form.

...Oh and if it's the one where they put a chicken egg in Vodka then measure the alcohol ... my MW burst out laughing remembering it from her days at college and said ^of course that's NOT how it works, that's a scare tactic for stupid women who binge drink or 16 year old trainees to illustrate a principal!".

Have had a couple of glasses since getting to the second trimester. Had less than half a glass twice in the first. Bit more relaxed this pregnancy than the first.

Natalie, your pair about the first two weeks makes no sense.

I wouldn't eat a green potato in pregnancy

Clinical reason?

In all seriousness, I have suffered from an illness in pregnancy which could ruin my child's life: maternal anxiety. That's why I'm so cold and logical about things: it's my CBT at work helping me not be ill. As I have stated before I do not drink in pregnancy based on NHS advice but am also able to see that the guideline is there because they cannot prove the low level (alcohol being a depressant which affects memory, and a social taboo).
However if I needed medication I wouldn't hesitate to take it: and this is someone who has had multiple losses and worked with a vast array of children including those with FAS and other preventable birth defects (which funnily enough people don't think about).

But society seems to set women up for maternal anxiety and a 'blame yourself' system more and more each year, which if carried on through childhood can have horrific results on childhood mental health (I have a parent with MH issues and it has set me up for a grand of set of issues) or in worst case scenario, physical issues.

Pair ?? Post!!

www.csiro.au/Outcomes/Food-and-Agriculture/green-potatoes.aspx

It is advisable that green or damaged potatoes are avoided by pregnant women or women who are likely to become pregnant, as there is some evidence of possible foetal damage or loss of the foetus from glycoalkaloid poisoning in animals.

Not the best link but the first up - this has been known for years, as a child I knew green potatoes = toxic and I'm well past 30 now!

My dp does have some form of daddy guilt in as much as he is worried about the recent research showing babies born to fathers over 40 are more likely to be autistic, dp doesn't want to have any children after he's 40 partly because of this.

I never knew about green potatos, I have read research that says to avoid liquorice as it increases the risk of adhd, I avoid sweets with liquorice extract in which is actually alot harder than avoiding wine as im really craving liquorice.

Zirca I knew people don't eat wholly green potatoes but as someone who (partly down to anxiety, partly due to high risk) has read everything I didn't think there was any call to be picking over every potato! You are literally the first person on the many many many support pages, communities, groups etc' for high risk pregnancies that I'm a member of who has ever mentioned them as something to 'think about when pregnant' that's all... perhaps because most of us would just go "ugh off potato" whether pregnant or not? I don't know.
That page mentions deaths in people and livestock - in Australia which of course has a much warmer climate than here - I'd be interested to know what the records are for that in the UK. I know they can be high in rural areas of Russia where potatoes we would never use are used as animal feed and sometimes by people. Indeed at the end of the article they do stress that "traces of greening" don't really indicate a threat to health. I don't think potatoes green enough to cause a risk would be sold in the UK? Food safety watch can only cite outbreaks from the 1970s, suggesting it is pretty rare! www.foodsafetywatch.org/factsheets/glycoalkaloids/
I found an article about animals being injected with high levels of glycoalkaloids in pregnancy, which caused defects. I wonder how many potatoes- let alone green ones - you'd have to ingest to get near to injected levels?

Ikea I discussed liquorice with my consultant (depending on the random websites you read it can cause MC as well as ADHD) he again said the quantities, to create any kind of effect on the fetus, would need to be huge. The research was not verified as reliable and few countries pay any heed to it.

I live in a country with a higher than usual consumption rate of liquorice and I would eat it a few times a week if I wasn't limiting myself.

I read that it was thought that liquorice prevented the placenta from blocking stress hormones but I don't have a particularly stressful life so I would hope I don't have to many stress hormones.

I didn't realise that liquorice could also cause miscarriages, goodness there is so much to watch out for.

Didn't realise there was a problem with liquorice. I love it but haven't eaten it while pregnant as I'm trying to avoid sweets (and other stuff) to get healthier.

Please don't tell me there's a problem with mango as that's my replacement treat!

Eastwiththem Sun 06-Jul-14 15:15:02
Weren't women in the past advised to drink Guinness for the iron?

My Aunt was telling me she was advised to do this in the 1980s this weekend as it goes.

Personally I take the attitude that life is full of risks, and you just have to assess which you feel are bigger risks than others and which you are comfortable with.

Would you think twice about getting in a car whilst pregnant? Especially if you were told there is evidence to suggest that pregnant women are more likely to have an accident than non-pregnant women?

Not to mention guidelines regarding food and alcohol in pretty much every Western Country differ, so who is right? And why such a huge variation?

How far do you go? If you have to have a health and safety assessment for pregnant women at work, then maybe we should be banning pregnant women from working at all - y'know just in case.

Obviously certain things may carry a risk, but how big is that risk? You can not live your life avoiding everything that may be a risk, because that carries risks of its own!!!

I see the guidelines like this: there is still a big difference between having a glass of wine a couple of times a week, having a glass once a week and having a glass for a one off special occasion. Yet all could be interpreted as being termed 'an occasional glass'... so officially you can't say this.

I also figure that if any baby you are carrying is going to be damaged by a single small glass of wine you have for a one off special occasion, then that baby is possibly at risk of a whole bunch of other things, that you maybe couldn't have any control over. Babies in the long run aren't going to thrive, if they don't have a certain amount of robustness in the womb.

However if that single small glass, becomes more regular or the 'special occasions' are common, then maybe I would raise an eyebrow.

As for going into pubs... whats going to happen to a pregnant woman in a pub if she's on the soft drinks? I'm curious as to why they shouldn't be there! Should they be banned from all venues where alcohol is served (they wouldn't be allowed at weddings!!!). And if we are really serious about it, perhaps we should just ban all women of child bearing age from licensed premises, just in case they don't know they are pregnant?

I think 'apply common sense' is really the phrase, I'd use....

Ikea don't worry it can't... it was an example of a random internet thing! In terms of stress hormones, that is such a very complex area and stress doesn't 'mean' ADHD by any means (much of our fear of stress in pregnancy is cultural to keep women at home once they started having kids! From the same school of thought that said going to university could make you barren, but sadly elements linger and get confused with real research).
What you say about the amount of licorice they eat in your country is really interesting (to me that's lots) and just goes to show why it's vital to listen to the HCP in your own country not the internet. Types of food eaten, food hygiene laws and even predominant ethnicity/associated health (e.g. some women are more prone to diabetes) mean that 'good' info for another country may not be needed/appropriate for you. For example in many European countries pregnant women are low on vitamin D and need to get outdoors - in a very hot country, given pregnant skin burns quickly, the reverse advice might be given. Clicking and just following the info without speaking to a midwife or Dr could produce needless anxiety.

Actually cars are really dangerous for pg women as seat belts can be very dangerous during accidents.

Everything is dangerous.

You have to employ some logic and realism.