Really upset- on verge of being refused a section

[weebigmamma]

I've been told by 2 GPs that I have a good case for an ELCS because of having had a 3rd degree tear in the last pregnancy but my hospital have been trying to put me off it to date. I had my 28wk appointment today and they've said they're 'not saying no' but that they advise against it and do I know the risks? I've now been told the risks 4 times. Yes, I bloody know the risks. And no matter how many times I tell them that the risks pertaining to having another baby don't apply to me since I am NEVER doing this again (I am 38 and I hate pregnancy) they keep on going on about it as if I don't know myself. They haven't listened to a word I;ve said and it's like they simply don't believe me that I had a bad tear or that the last birth was really traumatic. They won't discuss it again for another 5 weeks so i can't plan maternity leave or paternity leave and once again I have no idea what birth I'm going to be having. My best friend at the same hospital who is 2 weeks ahead of me has had no such problems and was given her ELCS date at her last appointment. I cried throughout my appointment today. They are going to force me to have a vaginal birth and I wish I hadn't gotten pregnant. I wouldn't have if I'd known it was going to be like this. I hate them and I have cried all day. Feeling like utter shit and terrified that they're going to make me have a vaginal birth again.

after all this they then took my b lood pressure which lo and behold was sky high and so I had to stay in for another hour while they repeatedly took it until it came down. So the upside of today has been that I haven;t been put on blood pressure meds for a condition caused by them. I suppose I shoudl be grateful for that. They're recommended I now get my BP done every week. No fecking way is that happening. I'm avoiding all medical professionals until my next appointment and I'm going to pretend I'm not pregnant until then as well.

That's very stressful. I'd be firmly insisting on it if i were you, there's another thread on it here from someone who had an elective who claimed they couldnt turn you down for one.. Thankfully in my hospital they give you an elective on request. I'd be up the walls in your position- i hope it all works out for you.

Ask to see someone else. I had a 3a tear last time and requested to see a specific consultant at 16 weeks who agreed straight away saying it's my choice and he'll support it. If he hadn't, I'd have gone to someone else until it was agreed. I'm also 28 weeks and there's no way I could have coped up until now stressing over it, so I totally empathise. I hope it gets sorted soon.

I've asked my friend what her consultant is called so I can request him. But now I feel like I'm doing a really bad thing and maybe if everyone I've seen is so against it they're all right and it would be a terrible choice and everything would go really wrong. I don't want to give birth either way! They keep talking like I think a section would be a walk in the park (they actually used that phrase: walk in the park).

What a nightmare. (Hugs)

Does your midwife know how you feel (if you even have a regular one)? My midwife made sure that I got an appointment with a consultant (well, it was a registrar in the end) who could book me in after I sobbed and sobbed on her. Actually, I don't think I realised until then just how much I didn't want to labour again. Maybe try to get an appointment with your/a community midwife - tell her what you've told us and ask for another appointment with the consultant. Keep going until they get it right.

(NB: I am not the best advert. I let the registrar book me in for an ELCS on the day before my due date, so I was in real danger of having to labour anyway! It all worked out fine in the end, though - no labour, lovely operation.)

I've tried being as firm as I can. there are only so many ways you can say 'Yes i know the risks. I have been reading about this since I found out I was pregnant. I want to have a section.'

Definitely ask for another consultant, in writing stating everything you have said here. That's how I got mine after 3 separate appointments and I had a long difficult ventouse delivery previously. Also emphasise that if you don't have a section your mental health will suffer.

Please do get your bp done weekly, it's so important for your baby's health Nd your health. Email the lead consultant, hospital pals team or head of midwifery copying in the nice guidelines, if you feel that strongly about it there is little they can do to refuse you. Sad that you've had such a difficult experience. Please please do get that bp checked regularly though, even if you get it done with your practice nurse or a different midwifery team.

Dig your heels in. You know what you want and you have valid reasons to request a elcs. I had a third degree tear, so I REALLY sympathise. If I have another I won't accept anything other than a elcs.

They won't force you to have a vaginal birth, but unfortunately, some doctors and midwives seem to think us women don't know what's good for us.

I think you need to prepare for your next appointment. Seek out official guidelines for women with a previous third degree tear. Ask them about the risks to your long term health (and continence) if you were to have a third degree tear again. Ask them if you're more likely to have complications with healing if you have a third degree tear again.

I'm so prey you've been so badly treated.

*sorry

Hi op

I had an elcs in 2012 which I demanded in the end.

Read all you can from internet. In scotland you can have an elcs if you chose. However you have to demand demand demand. I had to see lots of mw/cons until they gave me elcs date when I was 33 wks. And this was my first baby.

Book app with midwife immediately and demand to see another consultant. Read all info available to help you argue your case. Write a long list of pros for why you want it, write down cons also, as they do act like you dont know what your doing wanting a cs.

If the next consultant doesnt agree that you should have a cs, demand the consultant refer you to another.

I know your feeling down about this however you can make them give you a csec, dont let it drop as they abso will try to encourage a vag birth.

Sorry for typos on mobile and feeding toddler :-)

I was refused by two consultants and it took me 6 appointments at hospital to finally get elcs. You need to keep pushing for appointments with consultants rather than junior docs. I was able to make appointments direct with hospital but I'm aware this could vary from trust to trust.

I have not enjoyed this pregnancy as much as previous one and feel this is in part due to reluctance to allow me have the birth I want. My first birth was very long, back to back, nearly forceps and very close to csection as ds's heart rate was dropping dramatically. Also had trouble passing placenta which came close to trip to theatre. Strangely this was described as a very low risk birth by the hospital. I felt very strongly that I was very close to a complicated birth which could have had a much less favourable outcome.

After a lot of consideration I have opted for the controlled risk of an elcs. I am aware that this is a major operation, but, in my opinion and my past birth, less risky than vb.

Keep pushing and try and get to see a consultant as soon as possible. Hope it works out as I understand the stress it puts you under.

I want a section this time (baby number 3) and it still hasn't been agreed. I'm not stressing about it because I'm going to insist and will not accept a "no". They've also tried to dissuade me but my mind is made up and I won't be told otherwise. I have an appointment with a consultant on Friday who is supposed to be telling me if I can have the section or not, but I will be telling him/her that I AM having one.

My first birth was an emergency section and the second a very traumatic vaginal birth. The baby got stuck and had to be dragged out with a ventouse and was shocked and in intensive care after his birth. I thought I was going to lose him. There's not a chance in hell that I'm risking that again. Tbh, the section was the easier of the two births and having done it both ways I know what I'm getting into. They play up the risks of a section but it's not that bad. I found the CS scar much easier to deal with than vaginal stitches.

Stick to your guns and insist on giving birth the way YOU choose.

There is a (very long) thread on here all about how to ask for a C section, and many posters (especially the OP) went into great detail about the arguments they successfully used with their care providers. I can't remember the same of it, but it may be helpful.

Although to play devil's advocate for a second - where I am, a third-degree tear would certainly not be considered grounds for having a C-section. Perhaps that it also the case where you are? And GPs are not obstetricians, so the fact that the GPs you spoke with said a CS would be suitable, may not hold any weight with the OBs.

I'm more depressed that they seem to disregard everything I've been saying. yeah I'm not an obstetrician or a GP, I'm just a woman who doesn't want their vagina to be torn to shreds again, what the hell would I know eh?

As someone who had a 4th degree tear with their first and had to go through several such meetings to get an elcs with my second I'd echo everyone else's excellent advice and dig your heels in. When you get the same comments, can you say clearly and calmly that you have discussed this on several occasions, you're completely clear about the risks, but that the physical and mental health risks of a second vaginal delivery far outweigh them. Can you do the same with your GP/midwife too? As another poster said, my elcs was a walk in the park recovery-wise compared to my "natural birth". Ask them if they can guarantee that you won't tear again? And that further scarring won't significantly increase your risk of continence issues in the future? So many women seem to have continence problems after childbirth that don't seem to be considered in preparation for the birth. Good luck.

How awful. Do you know if they are being like this because it's the hospital's policy? I know that in my hospital (or trust) they have a different policy

You need to be very very firm and bring up the emotional and mental distress it is causing you. Also, do not hesitate to be clear saying their patronising attitude is unacceptable. And yes, I would use those exact words. Medical staff can sometimes take a very patronising, we know better, attitude and calling it what it is may rattle them into realising how serious you are.

Oh my god, talk about causing you unessesary stress!!! Do they realise the emotional issues this can cause people?

Im also in the process of pushing for an ELECS at my hospital at present, they are making me wait 4 weeks to see the midwife who will ultimately make the decision on my behalf, its making me really worried. Yet on the other hand, they are telling me not to stress so much as bad for baby!

This is YOUR birth, it should be how YOU want it to be. It shouldnt be based on the opinion of 1 militant individual, they are not the ones having this baby!

Husband on the phone to hospital now. He is great! I honestly don't feel I have any energy left and I wish I could opt out of the whole baby thing now. I'll probably feel better tomorrow.

hurrah for Mrmamma. Put your feet up and be kind to yourself!

Ok, what a horrendously stressful situation. I really feel for you OP as I had a v traumatic birth with ds1 and had to fight to be considered for elcs with ds2 (it was a moot point in the end as he was born naturally and v quickly at 34 weeks, but still).

There's lots of good advice on here, you'll have to be prepared to make a fuss - tell every midwife and doctor you see in great detail how stressful this is, how much anxiety it's causing you & impacting negatively on your mental health. You can ask to see a different consultant for another opinion too.

Be utterly honest, don't put a brave face on or minimise how you feel and don't be afraid to be a bit difficult - it's your body and your baby. I saw a perinatal mental health midwife who was a great advocate for me.

having said all that, my second birth was a LOT better than the first but obviously you cant guarantee that.

Just a quick thought- if you go and get your bp done weekly, will you be able to hammer home the point mention your section request to the unsuspecting doctor/ nurse every time?

Go over the head of your gp.
Phone for app to see obs
If you don't like their answer keep trying. I went into my app with a dossier of why I thought I should have one.
He listened and agreed. This was my obs that was named on my maternity notes. He was a bit puzzled why but still agreed. I felt very relieved afterward.
A section is not a walk in the park but it's what you want that matters most.
Good on hubby to take the fight on for you, don't let the bastards get you down.

You are completely within your rights to request a c.section. My friend had one a few years ago for no medical reason and so she did a lot of research into it. NICE guidelines which determine what hospitals should do changed in 2011 and it clearly states that if a woman really wants a section and cannot be persuaded against it then she should be allowed one. I would just keep on demanding, crying and quote the guidelines! Here's an attempt at the link of the nice pathway.

pathways.nice.org.uk/pathways/caesarean-section

So sorry you are coming up with so much trouble with this. How many previous pregnancies have you had?

Is there a possibility you could go to a different hospital - they may be a little more understanding/less stubborn about the issue. I had a section myself and haven't had a vaginal birth so have no idea what it's like although would've wanted to do it because that would've meant I wasn't ill.

On that note I really would go every week to check blood pressure I say this as someone who got pre eclampsia. I went every week for the last 3 weeks of my pregnancy and went into hospital on the last check which is just as well as it went dangerously high and had to have a grade 2 c section because the medication they gave me intravenously was only just keeping my blood pressure in check.

I seriously hope someone takes you seriously. It's your body and you know what is best for you.

Okay, you need to make a plan and do it step by step, this is about feeling back in control after all.

1. Relax, nothing is going to be decided tonight, there are 12 weeks to go.
2. Forget about the worries of planning parental leave, the majority of births are unpredictable and the people you work with will not expect anything else. A fixed date is a bonus but not having one at this stage is not a problem.
3. Go to the BP appointments, to show you are level headed about your health and to nag the midwife each week about the CS. It will not help your case to hide away from any potential issues.
4. Ask your friend for her consultant details and take them to your next midwife or GP appointment, request a referral.

It only takes one person at the hospital to listen. I needed an earlier date than they had given me (labour is very dangerous for me and first time I went into labour before this date). It was sorted within 30 minutes, despite the useless consultant I had seen a couple of times getting it wrong in the request. I was scared when I got the date and then felt daft when I realised how worked up I had got over something so easily fixed. I'm sure you will feel the same once it is all in place, especially as they haven't actually said no yet.