Elective C-Section (medical/non medical reasons)

[LittlePeaPod]

I understand this subject has been done before. I also know that ECS particularly as personal choice rather than as a medical need is an emotive subject and the debate about CS birth can be particularly contentious.

Considering 1 in 4 women in the UK experience a CS birth I have been disappointed to see how inadequate access to CS antenatal information is, so women can make a truly informed decision. Personally I think it's short-sighted to focus solely on VB and continually emphasise managing pain relief. The NHS is so focused on their target to reduce the 1 in 4 CS due to cost that they are neglecting their responsibilities to those women that choose or want a CS birth regardless of medical need.

I am currently 23+6 and I have chosen to opt for an ECS. There is no medical reason for a CS but this is a birth choice that I want. I understand that CS and VB both carry real but different risks but I believe these risks should be explained to women so we can make informed decisions about which birth risks we wish to take. Unfortunately this is not the case and the push for VB is so endemic in the NHS that women are not receiving the true facts on CS.

For those women like me that want an ECS birth. I just wanted you to know that due to the new NISA guidelines if you want/choose a CS the NHS now have to give you one. They will do everything they can to try and change your mind to the point of trying to scare you and make you feel guilty about your choice. But, regardless of medical need if you insist that a CS is the right choice for you the NHS have to honour your wishes and give you a CS. I am fortunate to have been able to privately pay for independent advice on VB and CS from three different very well respected professionals in the UK (two consultant obstetricians and one consultant in fetal medicine) and also received advice from a close family friend who is a consultant anaesthetist. I was shocked to hear how target driven VBs are in the NGS and how in fact this is what's driving the push for women been made to think they should have a VB and not the safety issue.

Ladies it is your choice how you have your babies and what you do with your body. If you want a CS you can have a CS regardless of medical need on the NHS. My DF and I have just spent a lot of money finding that out. I am 23+6 and the NHS have now confirmed I will be having an ECS and there is no medical or psychological need. I am having it because its my choice. I wanted to share this because prior to spending a fortune getting non biased information I was under the impression that I had to prove a VB was medically necessary, would psychologically affect me or that I had a fear of VB before a CS would be authorised by the NHS. Well that's not the case, its about personal choice. VB or CS you have a right to choose and the NHS have to honour your choice. It's just a shame and has royally pissed me the fuck off that if your choice is an ECS for non medical reasons the NHS are making it so difficult for you to opt for that choice in an informed way.

The reason for a catheter in a section is to keep your bladder empty. You wouldn't be incontinent without it, but they are making incisions and pulling on your uterus which is right next to your bladder, and as Joan has just mentioned, it can be easily damaged. If it's not empty,this very much increases that risk.

Peapod after they have finished suturing your abdomen,they then swab out your vagina and cervix to clean it from blood loss,and then will give you pain relief suppositories,so there is still a lot of things being done down below.

crazeeladee.. o no they wont be...

I am having a C section to avoid contact by professionals in that area. It will be very specific. I have to have a catheter which is going to be extremely traumatic, but I know that is essential. There are other ways of giving pain relief and I can cope with more blood if needs be.

Touching down there without me feeling it is a violation for me akin to things I dont want to mention on here. That is the reason I am having a C section and I am sure the doctors will respect that.

peeapod make sure you discuss your wishes with the midwife assigned to you for your ELCS and write it in bold in your birth plan. Make sure they know that you will consider it assault if your wishes aren't respected. Your midwife is the person best placed to ensure the doctors respect your wishes during the surgery.

The only thing is having had three c-sections I would advise you to discuss alternative options to the pain relief suppository before hand as you will be in a lot of pain afterwards.

Well said TomBaker - women having ELCS may not have the effort of labour but they are the ones who still have to care for their new born post major surgery.....that sounds like a lot of effort is needed for a long period of time.

The method of how a baby comes into this world is neither here nor there in my eyes. I'm perfectly accepting that I've got to have a CS and certainly don't feel cheated out of anything. As has been said, the achievement is the growing of the baby and all the crap we had to put up with for 9 months

Talking about effort and ELCS and VBs. How much effort and determination did you have to put in to getting your VB agreed?

Its an achievement to get some of the jobsworths in the NHS to believe that, no you aren't lying, and that you do indeed have issues that are causing you that much distress that it is affecting your life and the dread of a vb is causing you that level of anxiety. And that can be even before you get pregnant.

I'm sorry, but there are a lot of people who ultimately are incredibly dismissive of how previous events in a woman's life can have a devastating effect and think that all women should be able to attempt a vb.

And even that as peapod is highlighting, it can still be extremely distressing realising that there is still a catheter and suppositories to deal with even if you have an ELCS (though I believe it is possible to have an ELCS with a catheter, but this carries higher risks for damage to your bladder so as a rule its very rarely done and there are other forms of pain relief that you can have as an alternative).

Its narrow minded ignorance that ultimately attacks women who are perhaps more vulnerable and completely misses the reality of just how difficult it can be to navigate the system and social pressures and totally neglects to respect how women are feeling.

Effort comes in all different shapes. Physical effort is NOT necessarily better than emotional effort. I don't know where on earth that ridiculous notion comes from and I do think that it needs to be pointed out its bollocks. In terms of comparing levels of achievement - it is more about what is a challenge to your personal circumstances - and thats what we should focus if you really must use the word in reference to birth.

The NHS is a big organisation whose policies are run on statistical outcomes of millions of people. Statistically, more problems occur after CS. That's why the NHS pushes women towards vaginal birth.

Yes women should have choice over what happens to their bodies, but it's not a great, big cost-driven plot. It's really not.

If a woman really does not want to give birth vaginally, chances are she's not going to be confident doing so which won't help her when she's in labour. So she should probably be able to have a CS, however it still makes sense for the NHS to encourage vaginal birth.

The goal is a healthy mother and baby, that is really all the NHS is trying to achieve.

There's encouraging and supporting and then there is just not listening.

There is a difference between hospitals that have blanket bans on ELCS and those they never refuse a request for an ELCS and instead take the attitude to offer more support overall to reassure a woman and ultimately put her in a position where she feels confident enough with the care she is getting to change her mind.

Both exist in the NHS. Which is better overall for the well being of a woman? Both mental and physical.

I note here that the statists NEVER include the psychological outcomes of either a VB or a CS nor whether a woman asked for a CS. Don't you think this is a rather important omission?

Yes it is an omission. It hasn't been done in the past as the statistics have to be sound and gathering information on strictly clinical outcomes is reliable. Psychological outcomes are by their very nature, less easy to do so.

All hospitals should follow the support route. As shown on this thread, blanket bans are confrontational and even counter-productive in what they are trying to achieve.

If women are suffering psychologically due to vaginal births, it's almost certainly an indicator that care she received was below par. In those situations (and I'm talking hospital/unit wide - not individuals) the answer is to improve the vaginal birth experience, not more elective CS.

Shouldn't it be a two-fold approach?

Not all women who ask for an ELCs on psychological grounds have given birth before. So how they are treated previously is utterly irrelevant.

Peapod sorry, but they have to clean, you don't have to have the suppositories if you don't want them, but they need to make sure that you have not had any damage to your uterus and that it's contracting down as it should and make sure you are not having a post partum haemorrhage. It's a vital part of the surgery, it's not just to clear out blood and clean everything up. They will be aware of your wishes, and will have dealt with the same situation before, and will do their best to minimise any contact there, but ultimately they have to be sure that you are safe and at a reduced risk of bleeding which can be fatal. Please don't worry too much, they won't doany without explaining it first if thats what you wish for. It's not as much contact as a vaginal birth xx

"If women are suffering psychologically due to vaginal births, it's almost certainly an indicator that care she received was below par. In those situations (and I'm talking hospital/unit wide - not individuals) the answer is to improve the vaginal birth experience, not more elective CS."

Sure, improve the vaginal birth experience for the next person.

For this person who can't sleep since she found out she is pregnant because of massive anxiety due to traumatic 1st birth, you do an ElCS.

It is like the issue of road safety & people who are traumatised from the horrors of a previous car accident. Yes, invest in improving road safety for the population in general, but on the other hand, don't push the traumatised person into a car against her wishes, either.

My care was brilliant and I had a third degree tear' Nobody's fault, couldn't have been prevented, but was it traumatic for me? Hell yes.

im lost now. I dont want to be pregnant now. I dont know what to do. How the hell are you meant to give birth without people touching down there. No one would understand the trauma that this is gonna cause. I feel stupid for even getting pregnant in the first place.

Peeapod, it is vital that you explain this to your GP or consultant as soon as you can. You are going to need some proper support and counselling, whatever birth you choose. You are entitled to this support and it exists for you. Make sure you get it. You're not stupid. You are not the only person who will have have these worries and there are professionals who are equipped to help you. We are not those people, however, and this thread is maybe making you feel more anxious about everything. Do get some help- everything really WILL be OK. x

thanks. I know its overwhelming me and i need real life support. Thanks for letting me know who and how to get it. Please dont make any more comments on this, because im going to take a break from this thread to get my head round my choices. Ta

Just in case you're back in, if your unit has a consultant midwife, ask to see them as they will be able to help you immensely and give you support xx

I think the government would expect women to give birth like in the middle eve, if that would save the NHS some money.
They will though perform a CS eventually because nobody wants the mortality rate during child birth to be as high as it was in those times, though.
I think women are overall paying enough money as tax payer in order to be fully and truly informed and to be treated with the respect they deserve and given the choice of a dignifying child birth, even if that was bearing some risks.

Hi All

So its been a long time but I have been busy enjpying DD. shes my greatest a achievement! thought I should provide a final update. No long rambling notes just bullet points. Happy to answer any questions.

• DD born NYE via ELCS. I have no regreats. I will be having another ELCS if all goes to plan with the second one, hopefully next year.
• CS was not scary, traumatic or painful as people said it would be
• I was able to breast feed, carry my DD, change her nappy and do everything as soon as spinal wore off
• I spent 1 night in hospital
• I was driving after 2 weeks. Yes that is legal and insurers are happy for you to drive as long as your GP or consultant signs you off
• I was back at the gym (spinning, weight training etc.) after 4 weeks and already getting my 6 pack back
• I have no ugly CS over hang
• DD had no breathing difficulties or any form of injury following CS

So all in all I didn't experience any of the scary things people said may/could happen. For those wanting/having a CS, take it from me. It's not scary and we (DH & I) have some amazing memories following DD birth.

I had emcs first time after being pushed through 19 hours of hell where me and baby nearly died, this time my consultant said elective c section no question I actually wanted vbac but got scared out of it I was upset with descion but now know its right for me, my midwife said if its what I want they will support me but she honestly thinks the outcome will be same as last time, I do feel a failure for not pushing out my childrn but I know that we both might not be here if they didn intervene

Frankie you are not a failure. You and your baby's health and safety is paramount. How the baby arrives is simply a means to an end. It's such a shame society makes women feel like failures for not pushing a baby out. How could you be a failure? You just created and nurtured the most amazing thing (a new human life)

Havent read entire thread

Too posh to push comes to mind for me!

at the end of the day we are simply lucky that we have the option of cs full stop wether they be for medical reasons or not there are many women over the world where this simply isn't an option for them even if it would be better for them medically.

I am absolutely terrified of labour currently 31 weeks and its beginning to dawn on me!

but the thing is if your not "willing" to push a baby out of your vagina for no reason other than "you dont want to" why are you pregnant in the first place?

Personally I'd be worried I was taking up the operating theatre when someone else REALLY needed it!

Surely based on your idea we should all be having weight loss surgery rather than dieting....

This is just my opinion on how it would be for me. As odd as it sounds I dont actually judge others for their choices.