Elective C-Section (medical/non medical reasons)

[LittlePeaPod]

I understand this subject has been done before. I also know that ECS particularly as personal choice rather than as a medical need is an emotive subject and the debate about CS birth can be particularly contentious.

Considering 1 in 4 women in the UK experience a CS birth I have been disappointed to see how inadequate access to CS antenatal information is, so women can make a truly informed decision. Personally I think it's short-sighted to focus solely on VB and continually emphasise managing pain relief. The NHS is so focused on their target to reduce the 1 in 4 CS due to cost that they are neglecting their responsibilities to those women that choose or want a CS birth regardless of medical need.

I am currently 23+6 and I have chosen to opt for an ECS. There is no medical reason for a CS but this is a birth choice that I want. I understand that CS and VB both carry real but different risks but I believe these risks should be explained to women so we can make informed decisions about which birth risks we wish to take. Unfortunately this is not the case and the push for VB is so endemic in the NHS that women are not receiving the true facts on CS.

For those women like me that want an ECS birth. I just wanted you to know that due to the new NISA guidelines if you want/choose a CS the NHS now have to give you one. They will do everything they can to try and change your mind to the point of trying to scare you and make you feel guilty about your choice. But, regardless of medical need if you insist that a CS is the right choice for you the NHS have to honour your wishes and give you a CS. I am fortunate to have been able to privately pay for independent advice on VB and CS from three different very well respected professionals in the UK (two consultant obstetricians and one consultant in fetal medicine) and also received advice from a close family friend who is a consultant anaesthetist. I was shocked to hear how target driven VBs are in the NGS and how in fact this is what's driving the push for women been made to think they should have a VB and not the safety issue.

Ladies it is your choice how you have your babies and what you do with your body. If you want a CS you can have a CS regardless of medical need on the NHS. My DF and I have just spent a lot of money finding that out. I am 23+6 and the NHS have now confirmed I will be having an ECS and there is no medical or psychological need. I am having it because its my choice. I wanted to share this because prior to spending a fortune getting non biased information I was under the impression that I had to prove a VB was medically necessary, would psychologically affect me or that I had a fear of VB before a CS would be authorised by the NHS. Well that's not the case, its about personal choice. VB or CS you have a right to choose and the NHS have to honour your choice. It's just a shame and has royally pissed me the fuck off that if your choice is an ECS for non medical reasons the NHS are making it so difficult for you to opt for that choice in an informed way.

Ah,see what you're saying. And yes, I agree with you that the medicalisation of it is depressing.

Writer -I'm fully aware now that most inductions end in c sections and as I have to be induced, I need to accept that fact. I'm sure at the time I will just be overjoyed to have a healthy baby but I do hope I can go for the natural option.

The thought of an epidural makes me want to be sick though...

Is it depressing if it means the mother and baby won't come to any harm or protect their well being or lives? I think you are being very rude by implying people having CS are having them unnecessarily.

Oh no, not at all. I don't entirely agree with women who do have them unneccessarily (but each to their own) but I absolutely agree with them if they are necessary.

What constitutes a CS as being unnecessary in your opinion?

In today's modern world of medical marvels,I think anyone would be stupid to say baby or mother should be left to suffer in any way rather than go through interventions.

I myself am the result of a forceps birth!

I'm just curious as you said you don't agree with women having them unnecessarily - so obviously you have scenarios in mind where women have CS when they aren't actually needed? I was just wondering what scenarios you were referring to? Just curious, not having a go btw

If there's no medical/psychological reason for it. You mentioned you have been offered a CS so I'm guessing there's an underlying reason for that,just as there would be if I had a CS (I'm diabetic)? If not,I apologise. I just don't want to choose to go through major surgery myself unless I had to, but that's my opinion.

I have epilepsy and issues with my heart - hence the CS. I knew even before getting pregnant that my chances of having a natural birth were next to nothing. I think that's why I'm quite relaxed and accepting about having a CS as in my mind there has never been an alternative option. I'm sure I will be petrified nearer the time though

I certainly see a place for cs especially in medical situations, of course. But I just can't see the sense of euphoria and achievement that would come from such a clinical situation.

This is were I have differing views. I don't see pushing a baby out as an achievement. It's more of a means to an end as are all the other birth options. I think the real sense of achievement and miracle is the baby's development and how people parent the child once the child is born.

It's wrong to say or imply that women that opt for a CS are not doing it themselves. The have not achieved anything less because they choose or have no choice but to have a CS. Their experience is no less admirable and just because others don't understand their choice judging / implying their experience doesn't provide a sense of euphoria or achievement is really quite wrong.

We don't tell others not to have VB so others should give our choices the same respect and not belittle our experiences.

Erm... can I ask a question? Do you have to push a baby out of your fanny to have a sense of euphoria and achievement? Is the fact that you have had to tolerate the pain of labour the thing that makes you feel like that?

Just trying to get my head round the concept that having a sense of euphoria and achievement is only something felt by women having a vb.

There are plenty of vbs that are in a clinical situation - what about those women who deliver in theatre with the aid of forceps? Or those women who don't feel the baby come out because they have had an epidural?

I really do take that comment as being one that it is blind to the realities of a vb in 2014, and very heavy in judgement on those women who 'don't do it the natural way' for whatever reason.

So to all of you who have had an ELCS (and even if you've also had a vb) did you have a sense of euphoria and achievement?

I rather suspect you are actually projecting your beliefs about birth on your this rather than what women ACTUALLY feel.

I think pushing a baby out is a massive achievement! How can you say it isn't?? I've had two sections, so not given birth vaginally but I had a 15 hour labour before the first emergency section and was pushing for an hour and a half before I had to abandon it, and if someone who hadn't been through that said it wasn't an achievement I'd want to lamp them! I can't imagine what I'd feel like if I'd actually managed to push my baby out and that was said to me.

I don't say it's any less of an achievement to have a section, it's just different. But try not to diminish the huge deal it is to go through a long labour with all that the pain that entails and then just when you're at your most tired actually push the baby out yourself. To those that have done it I expect they might quite rightly feel that's one of the biggest achievements of their lives. I know most fathers having watched them do it do!

Ps many congratulations on safe arrival of your baby - as a PP said, disagreements aside it's wonderful news! Welcome to the slightly fuzzy world of no sleep...

Pass. It's not so much the sleepless nights.. I am just about bundling through the sleepless nights... It's the new parent paranoia that I am really having to rationalise and deal with.... I need to stop imagining things that could go wrong!! I am driving myself to despair.

Red. You must have read my mind with this.... Just trying to get my head round the concept that having a sense of euphoria and achievement is only something felt by women having a vb.

I really don't want us all to go back over the same arguments. We all know the all end the same! I just wish people would try and be understanding of others choices. Just because I don't see a sense of achievement in pushing a baby out doesn't mean I don't appreciate why other woman do feel that way.

For me it all comes down to the same thing, I want women to be able to have the birth choice/experience they want without feeling stigmatised or made to feel like some sort of failure because that choice is different to others.

The thing that has astonished me the most is the most judgemental people are actually other mothers (not the medical field). That makes me feel really sad actually. Women judging other women for their birth choices!

Oh I know that feeling! It'll go, don't worry. It's just very overwhelming to start with having a tiny human being to look after, but it will become second nature after a very short while. Try and enjoy the early days, they're gone so fast - you'll blink and discover your sweet sleeping (sometimes!) baby has become a shouting, covered in mud/jam/ toddler...(although that's pretty fun too!) Good luck - being a mother is life changing-ly amazing.

Pass. Thank you.. I really need to her that and keep reminding myself. Latest paranoia is standing over her in her crib which is right next to me in bed listening to make sure she is breathing alright...... Yesterday I moved her away from under the new light fitting in the lounge because I started thinking "what its not fixed properly and what if it falls". Totally irrational and I knew how irrational I was been when I moved her. Ha ha ha

Haha I bet you nearly every mother would say she's done something similar! I still lean over our 19 month old to check she's breathing...and now I have a seven week old too! Your risk radar will always be more sensitive now, I guess it's nature's way of keeping little ones safe. I've done many a thing similar to your cot moving...

Update Day 3 other than my boobs swelling to the size of cannon balls I don't have not much more to report. Still think the level of pain relief prescribed is more than adequate.

Only two things I noticed are, if sat or lying down for a while/long time it's more uncomfortable when you initially get up. Nothing unbearable but it takes a few steps to loosen things up. Also I can't remember who said it but I managed to miss one set of my ibuprofen and paracetamol yesterday because of visits etc. and I noticed that I become much more uncomfortable. So tip three from Day 3 is keep on top of your prescription.

Again, I am doing everything related to our DD (feeding, changing, carrying her -even up the stairs now- and trying to be a good mum). I don't feel like I am doing it under any great strain or suffering either, so the CS really has not affected my ability to look after DD from birth in the way I was told / read it would.

Whilst understanding that everyones experience/circumstances are different, and based on my current ongoing experience, I am more convinced that the scare mongering about CS mums been unable to cope and care for their DC post op is just that, scare mongering to try and push women into having a different birth to the one they want.

# Pass. Thank god I am not just turning in to a complete neurotic and over imaginative new mum. Ha ha ha ha ha ha

Thank you Pass. Reading / hearing other peoples experiences is really keeping me sane.

Red I didn't feel the euphoria with DS4 (ELCS) that I did with DS's 1, 2 and 3 (VB's). Having said that, when my DS4 was born he was taken straight to be weighed, checked, wrapped in a towel etc, then given to DH who was sat where I couldn't see him without twisting my neck round. I was shaking because of the shock. While I was still being stitched up and not seen DS4 properly the midwife came over and said he needed to go to NICU. After I wailed that I hadn't seen him properly yet, the midwife held him over me so I could cuddle him but I wouldn't drop him (the way you would if a toddler was holding a baby) and then he was gone. The next time I saw him was 6 hours later, all covered in tubes and wires.

I think if he'd been passed over the screen to me as soon as the cord was cut, still brand new and naked then I would have felt that euphoria. There's nothing like cuddling a brand new baby who is still covered in gunk and poos on you to make you feel euphoric .

So no, I didn't feel that euphoria that I had with my VB's but I don't think that was completely due to the C-section.

Just got back from seeing my Obstetrician who now thinks I should avoid the ELCS and revert back to the original plan of planned admission, epidural, induction and vaginal birth. I'm feeling a bit all over the place so she has said to have a good think about it and we can discuss it further at my next appointment in 4 weeks. Either way, my admission date has been booked in already

Hi Writer how do you feel about that? How many weeks are you now?

PeaPod thanks for the Day 3 update (it was me who said to keep on top of your pain relief meds; I'm sure I was still reliant on them for a couple of weeks after the birth). Totally normal to have irrational safety fears for your pfb, too! Let the worrying commence, ha ha! I've posted on your 'hospital bag' thread too, just so you know. I'm sure you're not busy with a newborn or anything

I'm completely with the OP with regards to the birth being a means to an end. All I want is a healthy baby, and a healthy me, I'm not fussed about a "sense of achievement" or "euphoria" and don't think I'm missing out on anything by never experiencing a vb. I know others who felt devastated that their vb attempts failed, I just don't get it

its all about the context isnt it? Fascinating how if you look at shows like call the midwife it was all home births then. With the advent of medical interventions then it became mainly hospital and drugs. Its now going back to natural birth. Swings and roundabouts, not one better than the other. And if you look at different countries then its different again.
To the poster who mentioned about not being given a chance to hold baby straight away, thank you. Il have to post a link to a page i found with all sorts of questions to ask and things to think about with c sections. It is all about the little things you may not think aboit that make the difference both for vb and c sections.

Hope I didn't scare you with that bit peeapod. If I'd been more prepared I think I would have asked for him straight away, I just hadn't thought about it before and when I was shaking I was worried about dropping him and I thought I'd have loads of time to hold him in recovery as the staff were really positive about him probably not needing to go to special care. He was born on a Monday and up until 30 mins or so after he was born we fully expected him to be by my side the whole time and home Wednesday morning.

no not scared. Better prepared. Knowledge is power and all that