Anyone NOT able to have whooping cough vaccine? Advice please

[A1983]

Hi there-I hope im in the right place to post. I'm 32 weeks pregnant and and in such a dilemma over the wc vaccine (the booster given during pregnancy and the vaccines given to baby).

My situation-50 years ago my half sister (so same dad) was given the wc vaccine at 8 weeks and convulsed immediately, was given half the dose the next time and convulsed again along with relentless screaming and blood blustering all over her body. At the age of 4 they discovered she was brain damaged and did not progress mentally from age 4. My father fought and won the tribunal. As a result I was not given vaccine. My father acknowledges the vaccine was live back then and not now...but obviously does not know if that was the reason for her severe reaction.

Now what happens when im about to have my first baby-wc outbreaks with vaccines being advised if not pushed upon mothers all over the country with real life statistics and scary stories of the dangers of not vaccinating. I actually had the Dtap booster by accident 2 years ago with no issues-whether this was because I was an adult, it's only a small amount (?) or indeed my sister was just a one off reaction I will never know. I will be discussing my situation with my gp next week who will understandably probably not have the knowledge needed to help me-and so I hope to be referred to a specialist who will really know their stuff and im praying there will be some way of testing my baby without exposing him to the same fate as my half sister...ie skin prick test or a tiny amount of the booster jab first instead of vaccine. I don't know.

Also with the vaccine now being given to pregnant women im hopeful that if i have it, only I will be exposed to the ingredients and the antibodies passed on will have no detrimental effect on my baby? Ill also discuss having it (again if ive had it) post birth so I can pass antibodies on through my milk plus protect baby from me passing anything on.

I can't wrap my baby up and hide from the world although very tempting, this baby is my absolute everything, although I did discuss with my oh about having all visitors getting the booster. He thinks this is ott and we can't ask ppl to do that-although I understand it made me angry-this is our baby's life-stuff your friends reactions and if they don't want to visit then that's their choice. This is a horrible predicament to be in and maybe im over thinking this-but as a new mum to be im so very worried.

Any advice or people in a similar situation?

Thank you

I agree you need to discuss your particular concerns with a specialist, although your dad is right, it's a different vaccine to that given to your half sister and one considered to be safer. The fact that you've had it without reaction is positive, I'd have thought.

One thing to note is that the vaccine is given in pregnancy to transfer antibodies through the placenta because it is thought that antibodies will not transfer through breastmilk in sufficient quantities to provide protection.

Thank you-yes ill have a good talk with the specialist-just hope ill get to see him/her within the next month!

I can't speak from any medical background but I gave birth in France during the last WC outbreak.

At an ante natal class we were all told that it was too late for us to have the vaccinations (as we were pregnant) but to strongly encourage immediate family and friends to have it.

DH had it, so did MIL. My parents (in the UK) were refused it by the GP on the grounds that they must be immune because they grew up in the UK so must have had it . Though my DB did manage to get it done.

So speak to a specialist, but I know we were told not to have it whilst pregnant, but to have it afterwards (which reminds me, I still haven't had it done though did have the vaccination as a child)

I am choosing not to have it.

Im 36 weeks now and havent and wont have WC or any other vaccines while pg

Ok so paediatrician phoned me today to discuss my dilemma with the wc vaccine....im left even more confused and upset.

He said vaccinations are given as a 5 in 1 nowadays, and so even if I decided to leave out the whooping cough vaccine I would have to leave out the other 4 including meningitis, polio etc..which is obviously ridiculous. He also said prolonging vaccinating babies is not recommended as the older a baby gets the more likely they are to already have an illness ie temperature which could interact badly with the vaccine by causing fits/brain damage.

When asked about how much of the booster I had 18 months ago is the original wc vaccine (as I never had the wc vaccine as a child due to my half sister's reaction) he did not know. He then advised me to have the full wc vaccine schedule..and said this would be ok during pregnancy. I advised him that the booster is only being given in pregnancy...and he said he would look into this and get back to me. When asked if any of the vaccine gets through to the baby in utero he said it was believed not, and just the mother's antibodies she creates passes through the placenta.

He ended the conversation saying the vaccine is different nowadays-the wc vaccine still has LIVE BACTERIA but not as much..he then said his recommendation would be for me to be vaccinated during pregnancy with the booster and for my baby to have the usual vaccinations at the recommended times. He added there would be no point in giving smaller doses as if baby is going to react they will...and they wont do it in a controlled environment as a baby could react days later plus they cannot reverse the vaccine or it's effects.

I'm now looking into seperating the vaccines privately but don't know how to go about this and how much it would cost. I don't have lots of money now im on mat leave with a morgage but at the same time my baby's life is everything.

So im really stuck now. My oh says we don't have a choice and we should just vaccinate as recommended as the chances of a reaction are so small...but there is still that chance? It was my half sister it happened to. I would wonder if maybe she had had brain damage from birth and it had nothing to do with the wc vaccine..but my father said she seizured both times she had it. Furthermore she clearly wasn't ill with a temp at both times she was given the vaccine which trumps the paeds hypothesis about a baby having a reaction due to being ill.

Help:'(

I wouldn't have it. It's offered to all as they don't know if you will breast feed. your baby should have your protection from pregnancy, and as long as you breast feed. The best thing you can do for your baby is breast feed. And research vaccine safety from non nhs or pharmaceutical funded studies.

In your situation I wouldn't have it. It seems to be that in your circumstances, the risks of having the vaccine (to you and the baby) are greater than the relatively slim chance of the baby catching WC AND suffering particularly badly with it. I can see that it's not an easy decision though.

"There is evidence that pertussis antibodies in breast milk are increased after immunisation in pregnancy and breastfeeding may therefore help reduce the likelihood of a baby becoming ill with pertussis. However, whilst there may be some pertussis antibodies transferred to the infant in breast milk of women vaccinated at 28-38 weeks gestation, this will not be enough to replace the need for the infant to complete the recommended primary immunisation schedule on time."

Breastfeeding wouldn't provide sufficient protection, even if you had the vaccine in pregnancy.

www.hpa.org.uk/webw/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1317136400742

"Does the pertussis vaccine cause brain damage?

In 1974 a paper was published suggesting a link between the whooping cough vaccine and brain damage. Because of this concern, the number of children receiving the vaccine fell. As a consequence, the number of cases and deaths from the disease rose. Subsequent research shows that, if there is a long-term risk of brain damage from the whole cell vaccine, it is rare, whereas the disease itself is known to cause brain damage and death. The vaccine that caused these unfounded concerns is no longer used in the UK and has been replaced with acellular vaccine (see below).

What is acellular whooping cough vaccine?

Until 2004 a whole-cell whooping cough vaccine was used routinely in the UK. This vaccine was made from non-live whole bacteria that cause whooping cough. The whole cell vaccines provided excellent protection against whooping cough but unfortunately tended to cause side effects such as fever, irritability and redness and swelling at the injection site. Acellular vaccines, which contain only the parts of the whooping cough bacteria that are important for an immune response, have been carefully developed over the years so that they now offer similar protection to the whole cell vaccines. As they cause fewer side effects than the whole cells vaccines, it was possible to introduce a booster acellular pertussis vaccine dose in 2001. In 2004, the UK changed its primary vaccination programme so that we now only offer the acellular vaccines to protect children in the UK against whooping cough."

www.hpa.org.uk/Topics/InfectiousDiseases/InfectionsAZ/WhoopingCough/GeneralInformation/

My experience is that if there is a good medical reason not to have a vaccine, that will be discussed with you. I would ask for a second opinion from someone more senior. Then it will be a risk judgment. But wc is seriously nasty, versus what is probably a minute risk to you.

The vaccine offered to pregnant women is NOT a live vaccine.

It contains acellular pertussis, not wholecell. Historically the wholecell pertussis vaccine was much more likely to cause significant reactions, but the vaccine used now in the UK bears no resemblance to that used years ago.

Regarding your baby's vaccines, a reaction in a family member is not a contraindication for the baby receiving vaccines. Single vaccines are not available in the UK for many of the components that your baby would receive in the 5-in-1.

I think that in your very specific circumstances you need to discuss very carefully with a specialist to consider your options.

Thank you so much for your replies-I feel with the pregnancy vaccine you are right-its just not worth the risk having it with my family history when the chances are so slim of him contracting anything before he has his vacs-IF he has his vacs.

However, I have been researching a lot today and contacted a private clinic near me. The clinic who offer a vaccination programme tailored to the parents needs and wishes-they give the following:Tetanus, diptheria and acellular pertussis vaccine-so a 3 in 1 with a seperate polio vaccine. The hib vaccine I can get through GP. The lady said she has not known any serious side effects of the acellular pertussis vaccine and their vaccine is called Infranrix. The 3 in 1 would need to be given over 3 periods of time, whichever the parent chooses ie every 8 weeks. It costs £100 per vaccine plus the Polio is £100 each for 3...I asked her if my baby doesn't react to the first vaccine of the 3 in 1 and my GP uses the same acellular vaccine, could I then get the rest from my GP as usual to which she said I could but she hasn't come across that as parents tend to stick to the 3x3 in 1 vaccine as they don't want their baby being vaccinated with 5 or more jabs at once. Im happy to stick with her anyway if i choose to go ahead with the jabs-i mean it'll all depend on his reaction to the first vaccine. I've discussed this plan with the Paediatrician and atm aim on getting the first set of jabs done...and go from there. I'll also read up on the Infranrix. She also said my booster Tdap vaccine I had 18 months ago is the same vaccine as a baby would get-the pertussis vaccine is just that-it's formulation doesn't change, it's just called a booster for terminology for it's timing. So the fact I didn't have any adverse effects is positive-although yes this may be down to a fully developed immune system as an adult.

My baby is my world, and these decisions are really breaking my heart. My father did say today btw that the polio vaccine can still be given orally and also due to the fact the disease is practically eradicated I can hold off for this one until he is weaning at least.

Please check with your GP regarding vaccines that you may choose to get there - for example in my area (Hampshire) we can't get single Hib vaccine or oral polio.

Infanrix also contains IPV (Inactivated Polio Vaccine) - I'm not aware that Infranrix is made without IPV any more. It also isn't licensed for children under 16 months. It only has 3 pertussis components instead of the 5 normally given to babies to give them extra protection.

I don't really understand your reluctance to give the 5 in 1 vaccine which is given as per the national schedule - why give 3 vaccines when you can give 1? Your baby would also be scheduled for the pneumacoccal vaccine and the oral rotavirus vaccine so you need to think about what you plan to do for those.

Thanks Sidge- well the 3 in 1 vaccine is given at 3 different intervals, so 2, 4 and 6 months for eg...which id exactly the same as the 5 in 1. The only difference is the polio and hib vaccibe are given seperately and these can be given by GP or private vaccine clinic. As for why im having the 3 in 1 rather than the 5 in 1 is because it's less overload on my baby's system...plus im no expert at this, just a first time mum who just wants to do the right thing and am full of question marks every which way I turn.

All I know is the wcv is acellular nowadays-great IF that was the issue with my half sister-I wont know til my baby has that first vaccination. I just want to tread so carefully with that initial vaccine-and if it has less other vaccines/ingredients involved then id think that would be better to?

I had the same reaction as your sister when I was a baby are far as the convulsing and skin blistering therefore I am not having it done.

Sorry to hear that Falcon, was it the whole cell vaccine though? And it's absolutely no consolation but I presume you are not brain damaged (I mean that sincerely!) and therefore minus the permanent damage im willing to TRY the initial vaccine...I think... (brain in overload!)

What are people's views on having the vac later for babies? The paediatrician seems to think this would increase the risk of side effects as older babies are more likely to have viruses etc already = more likely to react negatively with the vacs.

I had the same reaction as described when I had the WC vaccination in 1973 or thereabouts. for years, doctors did think I was brain damaged until it became clear I wasn't. I do, however, have several sight problems which my parents are still convinced are from that.

D's had the WC vaccine in 2004 as I was told it was a different vaccine. he was fine, no reaction at all.

each to their own, though and I will research it more than I would Normally for the vaccine in preg so thanks for this thread

Not sure what type of vaccine it was in 1984 I was a very prem so not sure if that had something to do with it. Ds had it in 2009 no issues so DD will get it i'm just not doing the booster in pregnancy to be on the safe side.

I don't think the switch to the acellular vaccine was made till 2004, so it would have been the old vaccine you had.

Falcon and Soopermum-that is interesting and very reassuring for our babies, if not ourselves, and as noblegiraffe says it seems your babies had the acellular vaccine and with it no adverse reactions-music to my ears! Of course I can't guarantee my lo will follow in your lo's footsteps, but your cases have shown evidence for it being ok..and ill have to hope and pray he will be if I have them done. Did your babies have the 5-in-1 (pediacel) vaccine do you remember? And first one at 8 weeks old?

As for the pregnancy wc vaccine im 100% not having it. It's too risky. At least once he's here I can SEE how he reacts to any vaccines.

Thank you for all your support ladies :-)

Im sure Ds's was the 5 in 1 A1983 :)