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Original poster

Local Hospital only do 12 wk scans - NO anomaly scans!! What are my rights?

50 replies

GladTidings · 31/12/2003 09:44

Hi all

I had my MW appointment on Monday and I was told that the hospital don't do anomaly scans! They do a dating scan around 12 wks and thats it.

I am really concerned about this.

Heres the details. With ds I started off at hospital A which do a 20wk anomaly scan. At 28wks we moved 15miles and had to book in with hospital B (which is only a mile from our house).

This time all my antenatal care is at hospital B, but they have closed their Labour dept so I will go to hospital A to deliver.

I have spoken to hospital A and they have told me that as I am booked with a consultant at hospital B I will NOT be given a 20 wk scan and will have to go to a private unit to have one..... £140!

I am so shocked as I have to go to Hospital A to deliver anyway!!!!

What are my rights? Can I ask to be moved to a consultant at hospital A so I can have the 20 wk scan??? I cannot believe they don't check for any heart, bowel, kidney problems etc. Is this relatively unusual?

I will pay for a private one if I have to, but think why the F**k should I when I only moved 15 miles away!
There is a big divide in the care between Hospital A & B even though B is closing and will be merging with A. I can't beleive the antenatal care is so different. I pay the bloody NI no matter where I live. It's really getting me down.
Any advice on what I can do?

I'm only 9wks just now so I have time to try to do something about it.

TIA

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madgirl · 31/12/2003 09:48

GladTidings, sorry to hear about this. What disgusting treatment. I would say that it is very unusual not to have a 20-week anomoly scan, I do know that in some areas (sil lives in oxford) they only offer 20-week scans and not 12-seek scans but not heard of anywhere doing the reverse. could you try contacting the maternity alliance or even the nct helplines? sorry not to give much practical advice, but I do think it is out of order. good luck

GeorginaA · 31/12/2003 09:54

I had this as well - really upset me. They did backtrack eventually though (the original reason was due to lack of staffing, but I think they got so many complaints they had to reconsider). It seems it's not that unusual

The thread I started at the time is here and mears posted a really useful link to the NICE Antenatal care guidelines ( which is here - pdf format ). Could you print that off, show it to your midwife and insist you are referred somewhere else for your 20 week scan if they are unable to do it?

I hope it all works out for you.

Original poster

GladTidings · 31/12/2003 09:56

Thanks Madgirl - I hadn't thought of contacting them.

You don't happen to know any numbers do you?

It think it is totally unacceptable that although its all one NHS they have this "them and us" attitude at hospital A.

When you phone to speak to a MW they immediately ask where you are booked then get a MW from that hospital to speak to you!

OP posts:

GeorginaA · 31/12/2003 09:56

Incidentally, I'm 20 weeks on 4th January, but still haven't had the appointment through the post yet, despite them saying I will get one although it might be at short notice! Argh.

Original poster

GladTidings · 31/12/2003 10:03

Thanks Georgina! I will definitely take that along and show my MW. Surely they can just send me to hospital A where they do them routinely anyway. It's all so petty isn't it. Do they not realise how important it is to Mums!!

OP posts:

madgirl · 31/12/2003 10:08

hmm just looked at those websites and they're more about working rights and labour, (no pun intended. dh (works at the BMA) suggested a call to NHS Direct to clarify policy or they could point to in another direction, or your local Community Health Council (best best is to go through directory enquiries- i don't know where abouts you are). another thought- The Patients Association- 0845 6084455 hth

Twinkie · 31/12/2003 10:19

Message withdrawn

tabitha · 31/12/2003 11:12

GladTidings,
I think, from memory, that you live fairly near me - in Falkirk.
I'm expecting my 4th child and because I lived in Edinburgh until fairly recently had my initial ante-natal care,up to about 26 weeks there as I did with dd2 and ds. I do know that in Edinburgh (Simpsons at Little France, which is a large consultant led, teaching hospital) it is not routine to give a 20 week anomaly scan. Personally, I think this is pretty appalling, but that it their policy. Officially, I think they say it is because of the unnecessary worry it may cause patients (don't quote me!) but unofficially it's probably down to money. I did have an anomaly scan this time because I didn't have bloods taken at 16 weeks (had CVS) and they wanted to check for spina bifida and I found it very useful. With ds (6 years ago) I also had one because I'd been ill and wanted reassurance that the baby was okay but I practically had to beg the hospital to do this and they reluctantly allowed me to.
If it's important to you, and why shouldn't it be, I would try everything you can to get the scan - maybe trying to get your GP on your side to start with. Sorry I can't give any more advice but I hope you're succesful.

mears · 31/12/2003 12:06

I am really surprised about that at the Simpsons Tabitha. Are you sure?
I work in a different part of Scotland but know that the Simpsons would be a refrral unit for problem pregnancies so can't imagine why they do not do anomaly scans. We do them at 18-20 weeks.

tabitha · 31/12/2003 12:18

Hi mears,
I was surprised as well esecially this time round - thought things might have changed in the last 6 years. I've just checked to make sure that I didn't get things wrong but was told that no, they don't do the anomaly scan as routine, only the 10-14 week booking one.

pie · 31/12/2003 12:21

I'm not sure about quoting the NICE guidelines as the National Institute for Clinical Excellence was set up as a Special Health Authority for England and Wales...maybe thats how they are 'getting out' of it.

I would make a big fuss though. I would have throught an anomaly scan is more important than a dating scan?

pie · 31/12/2003 12:22

I mean quoting in in Scotland iykwim.

tamum · 31/12/2003 12:28

Tabitha is completely right mears, they haven't done them routinely at Simpson's for at least 10 years. It's partly economic, but partly that the consultants there, a couple of whom I know quite well, genuinely believe that they raise more problems than they solve.

mears · 31/12/2003 12:41

I do agree that anomaly scans do raise more problems than they solve but there are times that abnormalities are detected and parents choose not to continue with their pregnancy. It would be interesting to know how many undetected abnormalities are detected at birth at the Simpsons. Do these pregnancies just naturally abort? What do women think who have had a problem. How many are there?
Very interesting subject.

Pie - although the nice guidelines do not apply in Scotland the principles are the same.
The Scottish Framework for Maternity Services is here and it does recommend a choice for anomaly scanning.

mears · 31/12/2003 12:42

And it was published before NICE

pie · 31/12/2003 12:44

Thanks mears...GT print those guidelines and take them with you. You maybe able to use them to argue a change of hospital too?

dinosaur · 31/12/2003 12:46

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Original poster

GladTidings · 31/12/2003 13:32

Thanks everyone.

I've worked myself up into a frenzy about it by watching too many programmes on Discovery Health! I need to stop doing that, but I remember with ds the 20 wk scan really allowed me to relax (a bit) for the rest of the pregnancy.

I am so worried that a heart defect (for example) that would normally be detected at the 20 wk scan would be missed. I know some of these require operations shortly after birth. How much damage would be done if nothing is prepared and we just have to wait for major symptoms or signs of a problem to appear??

The hospital in question is Falkirk Royal Tabitha. I will have to travel to Stirling anyway to have the baby and Stirling Royal do routine 20wk scans.

I am going to speak to my MW whenever THAT may be!! Antenatal care in Falkirk seems few and far between too.

All and all I am extremely nervous, apprehensive and worried about being pregnant under the antenatal care of Falkirk and Stirling as they seem to have such a political war going with each other that maternity patients are the ones suffering.

How pathetic and disgusting is it in this day!

OP posts:

M2T · 20/01/2004 13:49

Okay folks, I've got my 12 wk scan tomorrow. The leaflet says I have my scan then I am seen by my consultant and a midwife to discuss the results of the scan.

I am going to say to them that I want a 20 wk anomaly scan and be referred to the hospital I will give birth in to have the scan (Stirling).... since they do them routinely anyway.

What I want to know is what should I say if they say NO??
Do you think I should tell them I will reregister with a Stirling for my antenatal care if they won't refer me?? I mean if I have to give birth in Stirling RI then why don't I just have all my antenatal care there!

Can I register my self with Stirling or would I need a GP's referral? I don't think my GP will refer me. What a mess!!! I can't afford £140 for a private one.

M2T · 20/01/2004 15:18

Anyone? I don't want to go into this appointment with all guns blazing just for them to say that I can't refer myself to another hospital anyway.

JanHR · 20/01/2004 15:25

Sorry M2T, no real advice,but if you explain to them that you would like a scan at 20 to put your mind at rest, they would let you transfer.

HTH

Jan
xx

M2T · 20/01/2004 15:27

Thanks JanHR - One of my friends tried that 6mths ago and was told point blank that she would not be offered a 20 wk scan unless they thought there was a problem. Thats why I think I will need some sort of 'fighting talk' so to speak..... I know I'll have a battle on my hands. Although I'd rather not fight.

M2T · 20/01/2004 16:14

Oh well.... I'll just improvise.

I'll let you all know the outcome.

JulieF · 20/01/2004 21:31

You could try just ringing the supervisor of midwives at the hospital where you will give birth and ask to be transferred there for all your antenatal care.

You don't have to go through your GP at all to be referred for antental care at all if you don't want to.

SofiaAmes · 20/01/2004 23:36

m2t, I was forced to switch gp's during my pregnancy and hated my new gp (shortage in my area so i didn't have a choice). I told the hospital that I no longer wanted to do "shared care" and only wanted to have hospital appointments. They said that I was in the wrong postcode and couldn't do that. I said fine, I just wouldn't go to my gp for those appointments and only do my hospital appointments. They got really frazzled and booked me a few extra hospital appointments to replace the gp ones. The point of all of this being, threaten to not attend hospital and sound like you mean it and they may change their mind. It's probably more effective a little further along (closer to the 20 week mark).

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