Vegetarian and pregnant - advised to eat fish/meat

[GuppieK]

I wonder if anyone can help. I've been vegetarian since the age of 10 and have always assumed I eat a pretty varied and healthy diet - lots of fruit, vegetables, pulses, seeds etc and tofu, 'Quorn' products, soya etc.

Recently me and my partner have been trying to get pregnant and I've had 2 early miscarriages and am now pregnant (7wks) for the third time. This has coincided with me seeing an osteopath (who is also a nutritionist) for a shoulder injury and he has started to look into my diet as he thinks I might be lacking in protein which could be the reason my shoulder isn't getting better quickly.

He seems to think my diet is pretty unhealthy, lacking in vital fats and protein, and that I should really at least eat fish and preferably meat. Today he has said that the reason for my miscarriages could be that my body isn't up to carrying a child so aborted the pregnancies. We've come to the compromise that I'll take a hemp protein supplement (I already take flaxseed oil and a multi-vitamin) and also reduce my soya and 'Quorn' consumption, as he says they're heavily processed foods and not good for us. But I'm super paranoid now, and I was already paranoid because of the miscarriages! I feel like it's possible to be a healthy vegetarian and provide a baby with everything it needs to grow, but after 24 years of being vegetarian my beliefs are being severely tested and I'm wondering whether I need to start at least eating fish.

Has anyone here had a healthy vegetarian pregnancy, and what types of food did you make sure you got lots of? Thanks :)

Babeinbumpkinland do you have research to point us to to demonstrate the stress=hostile environment=miscarriage link you refer to?
It's funny that having seen many obstetricians specialising in recurrent miscarriage none of them have ever given this as likely cause of miscarriage - only person who has ever said this to me was an accupunturist.

I was more stressed with my 6th pg than ever, yet strangely carried it to term (while continuing to be a vegetarian).

Am astonished by this. Honestly, please listen to the much better advice given below, by all means improve your diet, there can hardly be a soul out there who couldn't improve their diet a bit even if it's darn healthy to start with - but the idea that eating chunks of dead animal is going to help you carry a baby is extraordinary. I've had two happy healthy babies and one miscarriage - and if anyone had suggested to me that the reason for the m/c was my vegetarian diet I think I'd have punched them in the face. This man must live in a state of perpetual astonishment that the population of India continues to grow, given 31% of them are vegetarian...

I have been vegetarian since I was 4 years old and I managed to produce a DD at the grand old age of 42.

If you are skinny, it may be that you have undiagnosed PCOS. For some reason the skinnier you are (within reason) the less likely you are to have external symptoms.

I did have two mmcs but they were due to PCOS, not being a vegetarian. If you are eating a healthy diet you should be fine. I did take fish oil as a supplement during pregnancy but that was just to put my mind at ease, rather than for any deficiency.

I don't eat Quorn or fake meat, I prefer protein from more natural sources such as beans, seeds and nuts, and dairy.

I think you could definitely increase good fats though?

High quality dairy like butter and full fat yoghurt, avocados, nuts etc?

People are so afraid of fats but we need it, and if you're not getting animal fats, I would definitely increase it from other places.

I would never dissuade you from your dietary choices but I did a great course called Eating for Fertility when TTCing - I can kind of see where your doc was coming from because fish is an excellent source of oils but supplements should be fine, and he should NEVER have tried to get you to change your choices in that way. I think you do need to look into the Omegas though, as I think too much of one can deplete the other?

We need fat to run on - it was only that crazy, mad idea about low fat diets that makes people so afraid of it! It's sugars that should be stayed away from, not fat!

Just to add to what Bettybat says below, myself and family take a vegetarian "fish" oil (i.e. it's not got any fish in it but has the good oils contained within, articifically created I assume). Will try and look up brand if you are interested, they send them by post so rather handy as we never run out..

does your "nutritionist" also run a butchers? - what a load of rubbish. Why are so many people threatened by veggie's. He obviously thinks 7lb of meat rotting in your colon is going to help you get pregnant.

www.vertese.com/vertese-product-detail.php?product=13

This is the oils I take - all veggie, so no fishy taste!

www.udoschoice.co.uk/ - and took this whilst pregnant.

There is noting worse than a therapist who puts the fear of god into you! He sounds as if he is just talking nonsense - I'd ask to see the research he was quoting from. Sounds more like his own bias and suspicion of veggies!

For the record - I do know someone who had a terrible time getting pregnant and carrying baby to term. She ate meat, fish.... everything really.

Hello!
I've been a vegetarian for past 8 years, in my first pregnancy (31+2), in my last year of nutrition degree and got barmy advice from a mw about not getting enough protein too - hmm total rubbish! after doing a food diary for two weeks and counting all protein, vitamins, minerals etc, the calculations came up with very high protein content etc. I eat tofu, lentils, eggs, yoghurt, quinoa etc very regularly.
I think there's a huge misconception of how vegetarians are unhealthy by people who are non-vegetarians, but I've found that most vegetarians are very knowledgeable about food and it should be possible to get enough of all your vital minerals, proteins etc. Here's a good link for reference: British Nutrition Foundation publication
One thing that I've found though is that my iron (haemoglobin) level at 28 weeks was normal but my iron stores (ferritin) are low and so there's a debate whether I need iron supplements between my doctor and mw. I am taking the supplements plus I'm on Neals Yard pregnancy vitamins, vitamin C and flax seed oil.
Definitely agree with bettybat, good fats essential in diet - you need a good ratio between omega 3 and 6s especially and so nuts, avocados, butter, yoghurt etc plus hemp/flax seed oils are great to include and the staying away from refined sugars!

Also, a NHS dietician maybe available for advice for you, maybe a mw/doctor can refer you if you're really wishing for some face to face support.

I've been a vegetarian all my life, and didn't have any trouble getting pregnant. I am now due at end of August. Your diet sounds pretty good to me. Much better than most people's! Best of luck with your pregnancy. xxxx

I am a vegetarian and my son was a 10lbs baby. You can be healthy or unhealthy with either diet. It sounds like your so-called nutritionist has got something against vegeterianism and is trying to make you feel guilty for it. Ignore him and go to see a proper doctor if you have concerns.

He sounds a quack. Do check with your midwife/GP to check whether you're underweight or anaemic, but otherwise you should be fine based on your brief description of your varied diet.

You might find the Vegetarian Society leaflet on veggie pregnancy, veggie babies of some interest - see www.vegsoc.org/document.doc?id=9

I've been veggie for 25 yrs and managed to produce a healthy son at age 42. He's now 4.5, completely veggie, very energetic and literally full of beans! Initially I was automatically referred to the hospital-based "high-risk" pregnancy clinic because of my age, but after 1 appointment, in which they decided my BMI, diet, exercise level, blood iron level, and glucose tolerance test results were all ideal, they sent me back to midwife-led care stating that my lifestyle made me healthier than a smoking, meat-eating 20 year-old!

I was editing a book about essential oils when conceiving, so felt obliged to add an omega 3 supplement, but conservatively: I (and now my son) have one Healthspan vegetarian DHA supplement twice a week. It's made from algal oil, not fish - the fish get it from eating the algae in the first place! We also sprinkle 1tsp pre-cracked linseed (Linusit) on our breakfast muesli every day, and take a vegetarian multivitamin twice a week as a "just in case". I felt obliged to follow the advice to take folate for the 1st 3 months, though I doubted it was necessary given my high intake of whole grains.

Congratulations on your pregnancy and good luck!

As long as your diet is high enough in iron, folic acid (although most pple supplement this anyway), Vit D and omega 3s I can't see that a veggie diet would be a problem. Getting enough vit D and omega 3 might be a crucial factor though- they are extremely important to the developing foetus and it's difficult to get enough in a veggie diet unless very carefully calculated.

Also I agree with him re soya fwiw.

Your 'nurrionist' sounds like a quack. Has 2healthy pregnancies and am a veggie.

Am very dubious about some alterrnative practioners tbh. Read 'Bad Science' by Ben Goldacre. It's a real eye opener!

I would agree re soya products and quorn being a bit crap, but wouldn't say you need to eat meat and fish! You may well be short of protein but nuts etc are fab sources of protein! meat and fish are not necessary (although an iron suppliment may be, veggie things that themselves contain a lot of iron often have it in a form that's not very absorbable)

I had a vegitarian pregnancy enforced on me (went off all meat and fish when pregnant with no1) and found a good vegitarian pregnancy cookbook with checklists for nutrients, it also had a weaning section for later, sold it when I could eat meat again so not sure of the name bu tthe info is out there.

this is a fab book for checking every now and again that your diet is on track:
www.amazon.co.uk/Vitamin-Mineral-Counter-Dell-Stanford/dp/1903992036
and there's veggie options for everything

Some great advice here about healthy eating and supplements with vitamins etc OP. Selenium, Zinc, Vitamin D3 and some sort of vegetarian Omega 3 are well worth taking to supplement any diet when pregnant. As well as eating lots of healthy non-meat protein and good fats.

What I wanted to make clear earlier is that I think the miscarriages and vegetarian diet are two completely separate issues and whilst it's great to hear of all these successful pregnancies from vegetarians (as a non-meat eater myself I completely agree with all of them), these two separate issues should both be treated as such. Hence my recommendation of looking into low dose aspirin too. But good luck with the pregnancy and hopefully you won't need to know anything more about miscarriage investigation and treatment ever again!

"You can be healthy or unhealthy with either diet."
yup
Vegitarianism isn't necessarily healthy, I know a few who are definitely deficient in a thing or two and have TERRIBLE diets full of processed food with little variety

IMO Vegitarianism can give you everything you need, but overall someone is just as likely to be difficient in something as a vegitarian as anyone else, it depends on their individual diet choices.

I quite like some of the Quorn stuff. The Linda McCartney lasagne is bleeeeeurgh but her soya pies are nice - but fatty (I love pastry!). I like tofu but you need to marinade it (and fry or griddle it). Also love paneer (not the healthiest of things!)

You can be a healthy veggie (eating a wide variety of foods and trying new things or new cuisines) or an unhealthy one (living on chips and cheese).

If you eat too much processed foods with lots of salt and fat, then you wont be healthy.

I was in a restaurant in Spain and was chatting to the waiter. We hadn't ordered yet (so he didnt know that I was a veggie) but for some reason he was banging on about how you could always spot the vegetarians because they looked so miserable! Cheeky thing!

Funnily enough, the worst veggie meal I ever had was in Italy (we were up near the German border, but still!). The French just pretend not to know what vegetarianism is just for a laugh (so hand you a plate of grilled sausages after saying that they don't understand 'je suis Vegiterienne', so you have to go through 'je ne mange pas poisson, carne, poullet.....'.). Could have just been in revenge for me mangling french language though!

Your osteopath might be qualified in osteopathy but he knows sod-all about nutrition. And is quite wrongly exploiting his role as an osteopath to interfere in areas of which he knows nothing, and where the advice he is giving is actively harmful. Irresponsible at best.

Only thing veggies have difficulty in finding a source of is vit B12, and even then you can eat fortified food (e.g. breakfast cereal) or yeast products (marmite).

My osteo has never discussed diet with me

Rejoining the thread, but just to repeat more firmly what I said before! These days the NHS tries to give advice based on the best evidence available. There is no evidence, as far as I am aware, linking a low-protein diet to miscarriage. If anyone can produce such evidence (including the OP's osteopath), I would be glad to see it.

There are women in many parts of the world suffering from extremely poor nutrition but who still manage to bring babies to term. Your body takes all the nutrition it needs for the baby.

If there was evidence linking lack of protein to miscarriage, it would have been on that NHS site I linked to earlier.

I think your osteo is an eejit. Can't comment on the vegetarian and pregnancy thing (although I'm sure it's fine as many posters attest) but I eat lots of meat and fish as part of my (pretty comprehensive and healthy!) diet and my shoulder injury from 6 years ago is still there!! And I've had loads of physio!

I think based on your osteo's views and how much I like steak I shouldn't still have my rotator cuff injury hence I reckon he knows bollocks about nutrition.

I'm sure there are books/guides on veggie nutrition in pregnancy that can guide you? :)

Another veggie here, I ate fish for the first 3 months of pregnancy with Dd, then gave it up for new year.

Dd born at 40 + 5 8lbs 9oz perfectly healthy and still breastfed at 21 months.

Currently pregnant with ds all going well.

I just listen to my body and eat when i'm hungry, what i'm hungry for etc (never craved meat!)

Perfectly possible to be a healthy pregnant veggie.

I do take a multi vit though!

Another veggie here. 2 healthy pregnancies and 2 healthy full term babies. B/F younger one for 2 years.
What a horrible osteopath, I would tell him to FO and get a polite and competent one. He sounds like he is on a massive power trip and has probably got a chip on his shoulder about not being a "proper" doctor. He was basically blaming your diet for the miscarriages? What a load of crap. There are a lot of people in the world who have never eaten meat.
I would cut down on processed food (and bread) if only to keep your salt level down - I had high blood pressure. Otherwise your diet sounds perfect!

Another veggie here (been veggie 25+ years). I've one pregnancy which was healthy. DD was 8lb's 10oz's at birth. She is now 4 and in the top 10% for height and weight (slim!) despite me being only 5 foot 2!

I got the rubbish about needing animal protein when I was pregnant :o
Honestly its ignorant rubbish, forget about it!

Yes, read Bad Science! I think osteopathy is mostly quackery, I'm afraid (although I know most osteopaths sincerely believe in its efficacy).

In answer to your question, I have been vegan all my adult life. I had a healthy vegan pregnancy, exclusively bf for 6 months whilst vegan with no problem at all and am still bf now that dd is two.