Rare steak?

[LilllyLovesLife]

Hi, anybody know if we are allowed to eat rare steak when preg? I know you need to make sure meat in general is cooked through but steak is different isn't it and usually just needs to be cooked on the outside. We eat rare steak a lot and it's going to drive me bonkers if I can't have it for the next 8 months!

Would be grateful if anybody has the answer. It isn't on my list on my pregnancy app but it does say to cook meat through.

It used to be ok to have steak pink but they've now changed that saying they're doing more research into the risks of toxo.

I'm gutted as I avoided it all last time but then saw it was ok. This time I was all geared up for a lovely steak, only to find I can't have it!

I did. And it was delicious.

It's up to you to assess the risk - its advised that you don't, but it's a guideline, not a rule.

Bloody steak was one of my cravings. I ate it often: it was one if the only foods I could keep down. Didn't even think if the risks though, and I'd have been heartbroken if something had happened that could have been so easily avoided.....it's a hard call!

www.nhs.uk/conditions/pregnancy-and-baby/pages/foods-to-avoid-pregnant.aspx#Raw

Personally I wouldn't go for it rare (yum) but would have it medium.

I have and would. The 'potential' risk (they haven't even ascertained whether it is a risk yet) is for toxoplasmosis, which, if you have or have had cats or garden regularly, you've probably been exposed to before.

Also, my MW is still giving out healthy eating sheets saying that it's fine so I'm choosing to look at those

They say it as a guideline. There are people who avoid everything, and those who don't. What gets me is it changes all the time, which makes me take it less seriously. It's a personal choice, with my last pregnancy I had it. It was amazing. I had a mouthful of Dps a few weeks ago (it just looked too good) and I wished I had one of my own! If you like it medium why not have it instead? TBH my rule is- if you really want it- have it and enjoy it

I did, I craved rare steak when pregnant .

The NHS guidance says don't eat any rare meat. It used to say that you could have it rare if cooked on the outside but they changed that advice because searing the outside won't fully kill the toxoplasmosis.

Grand it's not true that if you've had cats or garden regularly you will be immune for toxo. I have had cats all my life (and eaten loads of rare/raw meat) and just got tested and I am not immune to toxo. Apparently only a few of the people who are exposed will catch it and therefore develop immunity. Of course this also means that the chance of catching it now are small.

I am absolutely craving rare steak but am still avoiding it due to the toxo risk. Toxo is one of the few germs that can cross the placenta and cause defects in the baby (listeria is the same). For me that is too big a risk to take for the sake of a steak. (There are other risks, eg salmonella from eggs, that I am less bothered by as they don't cross the placenta). But it's a personal choice.

If you do want to eat rare steak, it's best if it's been frozen for at least 72 hours beforehand as that will kill some (but not all) of the toxo germs.

not true that if you've had cats or gardened a lot you'll have had toxoplasmosis.
Only 30% of the population are thought to be immune and there are many many people who have been tested who have worked with cats/kept cats all their lives and are not immune (see previous thread on this subject).

Up to you what risks you take. The risk of catching toxo from rare beef is very very slim but if you do the effects on the baby can be devastating.

from Tommy's who have taken over the work of the Toxoplasmosis Trust:

The baby can catch toxoplasmosis while in the womb. This is called transplacental transmission. It has been estimated that 40% of pregnant women with toxoplasmosis will pass the infection on to their baby in the womb. This means that about 800 babies each year are infected with toxoplasmosis.

The likelihood of the baby getting toxoplasmosis becomes higher if the infection is caught by the woman further on during her pregnancy.

If toxoplasmosis is caught in early pregnancy and is transmitted to the baby then there is a high risk of miscarriage.

If infected during the first or second trimester the baby may be born with hydrocephalus (water on the brain), brain damage, epilepsy, deafness, blindness or growth problems. The developmental problems may be so severe that the pregnancy ends in a stillbirth.

If toxoplasmosis is caught in the third trimester of pregnancy, and is transmitted to the baby, then there may not be such severe and obvious problems. However, although things may appear to be fine at birth, health problems may develop, particularly with vision, later in life.

That's interesting Blackcat.

We have a sheep farm and so are concerned with toxo as well, as if it gets into the flock then it causes the same defects as in humans.

I've been doing research into it in cats as I need another cat and despite being a cat owner for 10 years and an archaeologist, I'm not immune.

it seems that cats get toxo from eating something infected with it. It then passes through the cat and the resulting poo is then infectious. However it is only the following 2 or 3 poos which can cause problems. Therefore it's generally only young cats who get it, once they start making their forays into the outside and hunting trips.

I'm not saying for an instant get out there and change that litter tray, what I mean is that it's only someone who has had a lot of contact with cat poo from young cats who is likely to have become immune to toxo.

This is why farmers do have problems with toxo as the farm kittens/cats catch mice etc and poo in the hay, which then gets into the sheep.

I have persuaded OH to let me have a pair of 5yo cats who will have had the virus already but I'm personally still going to be careful with red meat (we'll see how long that lasts once the cravings start!) at least this time we'll be lambing with a newborn rather than me being pregnant...

Sorry if that was a bit rambling

daisybell not rambling, its interesting. I have read on MN of women who cannot help with lambing when pregnant- due to risk of catching toxo, as i'm a city dweller its not something i've paid much attention to and yes from my reading you're spot on with your description of farm cats and infection.

Glad it wasn't rambling!

What I've now been pondering is if the risk of infection is actually quite low from cats, is meat responsible for the remaining infections in the UK?

You're right about lambing - toxo and other abortive diseases can be passed over the humans, but only through contact with brand new lambs and birthing products

daisy they don't really know and there are very little to no stats kept about toxo infection in uk farm animals at least that i could find. When i looked up deer infection the only figures available were from spanish wild deer in one particular area of south spain! From my reading - it seems that free range meat is more of a problem because intensively farmed animals are kept locked away from the original sources that will infect them. Beef is thought to be amongst the lowest infected. Poultry risk was negligible to no-existent. Pork worst, venison pretty bad and also sheep. Then cured meats and of course soil- so washing salads and veg essential. In other countries eating horse meat is a risk. They are doing more research so be interesting to see what they conclude.

I am having my second pregnancy in France, where toxo rates are much higher than in UK. I was tested several times as a matter of course - I am immune so have been continuing to take my meat medium-rare. A French friend wa infecte with toxo while pregnant - she needed an amniocentesis to check the baby was ok and had to take pulls 2x daily throughout the rest of her pregnancy. Her 3 week old is perfectly lovely.

My MW advised mediumm in fact she encouraged it because of the iron content. Medium is adequately cooked through and i guess it would be the happy 'medium' between fully cooked and rare :)

the problem with babies born to women infected during pregnancy is that apart from ruling out severe problems they cannot rule out problems developing later on in life- e.g as already mentioned loss of eyesight which may not appear until the child becomes a teenager.

The reason why toxo rates are so much higher in France is thought to be due to the french love of rare/raw meats. If women want to risk it then go for it, the chances of contracting toxo during pregnancy and passing it onto your unborn child are incredibly tiny but it is a risk .

As for iron there are plenty of other places to get iron from and foods/drinks to avoid as they make iron absorbtion harder. However cooking the meat until it reaches a core temp of 67C/ 152F or freezing the meat before cooking it- i think its for at least 3 days- but you need to check that - will kill the toxo cysts.

i should qualify that a bit more. They can test via amniocentesis to see if the baby has contracted toxo in utero. If it hasn't, and if a blood test at birth confirms that is still the case then my understanding is the baby is in the clear. If it has contracted toxo then although they can rule out serious problems from scans and examining the baby once once born they cannot know the full extent of the problems that child will face until they reach their teens. Some problems will be minor- a squint for instance but some children have far more serious problems .