Advice needed on antenatel depression and a difficult friend...

[Purplelooby]

Sorry this might be long...

As a quick background - I lived (and functioned quite well) with depression between the ages of 16 and 25, but I'm now 32 and have been totally fine since. I'm in a very happy marriage, in a job that is stressful but that I love and I'm 22 weeks PG (after a long period of infertility) with my first DC.

Despite the usual hormonal tears and stuff, the actual depression hasn't resurfaced at all... until...

I have a friend who I've known for over 10 years. She is not an easy friend - many people dislike her as they find her offensive, opinionated and generally annoying, but underneath all that she is a generous person and we have been through a lot together (plus I've learned how to deal with her). I should add that I think she is probably autisitic and that she really doesn't know when she has upset people and she genuinely doesn't understand other people's emotions.

When I told her that I was pregnant, her reaction was to be upset that I had told a couple of other people before her. My other friends were over the moon, knowing how long I'd been trying, so I was a little shocked at her reaction, but I was so happy to be pregnant that I let it pass. She is now pregnant herself with her 2nd child and all should be good. Until. Earlier in the week we were having a minor argument, probably 50:50 and caused by pregnancy hormones. To cut a long story short, it ended with her sending me a very long and nasty text message. It was very painful - a real character assassination - the kind that ends friendships. I cried all the way to work, cried several times at work and have cried each evening since. What bothers me more though is that I am now thinking things and feeling things that I recognise as depression creeping back in.

My husband/family/friends have all said it's time to distance myself from her, especially when I'm about to have my first child. I've taken their advice and stayed out of contact whilst I get my head together, but she has tried to contact me several times and is now inviting me to visit her. I replied to say that I wasn't sure yet, to buy some time to think. This led to an indignant reply, but on it she also hinted that something bad might have happened in her pregnancy.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I feel like I can't do the right thing. I genuinly don't think that she knows how much she hurt me, but I know that if I try to tell her it will just lead back to arguments. I don't think I could take her saying something like that again, I thought distancing myself was the answer but she is not giving me that option and is turning that into a potential row. And of course, if something bad has happened in her pregnancy, I don't want to call her more pain.

Please please please help me. I don't expect anyone to have the magic answer, but any advice will be good, or even just your opinion. I feel a horrible person and like everything I do is wrong. I know this is partly the depression speaking but nonetheless it's how I feel. :(

Hi Purple,
I have had clinical depression on and off for half my life now and I am 35yrs. Just wanted to say that so you can see that I have experiance and understanding of this horrilble illness.
I don't mean this to sound patronizing but well done for being able to monitor your emotions, it is not easy to keep on top of them and sometimes depression and be a sneeky little bugger !
First of all you need to keep yourself around positive people at the moment while you get through this little blip. Be kind to yourself and do things that make you feel good and happy about yourself. This unfortunatley will probably mean keeping away from your friend at the moment until you are strong enough to deal with her.
As soon as you feel guilty ,stop that thought by distraction. Guilt is a wasted emotion, does no good to anyone and will not help you or her. Just focus on you are your little baby.
I know it is hard but it is important to put in check the depression monster now before you spiral in to that rut which is exhausting pulling yourself out again.
You can do this....funny enough people with depression are one of the strongest and intellegent of people
If you want to pm me then please do so and I will try to help.
Sometimes you have to put yourself first before other people and I think this is one of those times.
My counseller once said to me this and I have carried it with me ever since as I think it is very true 'people are very good at putting their own guilt on to other people '. Good Luck xx

Sproglet's given some great advice.

Speaking as an objective stranger, your friendship seems very one sided. Your friend has hurt you in a particularly cruel way and is now putting her needs before yours by trying to get you to sympathise with her. Nobody needs friends like that, and in your shoes I'd be inclined to state very clearly that I no longer wished to be contacted by her.

It's normal to grieve for a friendship and definitely one that's come to such a cruel conclusion. You need to spend some time looking after you, instead of considering others, and give yourself some time to get over what must have been quite a shock Xx

Cut her off! I had a friend like that, she cut me off the day after she was bridesmaid at my wedding. Best thing she ever did for me... life's too short x

Tbh you sound like you're making excuses - she may be autistic, she may be depressed...

Neither of those are any excuse for behaving like a complete knobend. People act like that because they can get away with it - stop letting her!

Definitely agree with the above, you need to put yourself first, and by yourself I mean you and your baby - any additional stress you allow her to pile on you can affect baby too (I've cut somebody out of my own life recently with the view that nobody will be allowed to affect the development of my unborn child)

Out of interest, what did she say that makes you think something has gone wrong with her pregnancy? I've known people when desperate to imply things just to get enough worry to get me to ask, only to find it was nothing at all but by then they'd got me sucked back into contact - would be interesting to see if her message might fit into that category? (cynical)

Agree with babba people like that can be very manipulative and try to claw their way back in to your life... have had a recent text from my ex-friend about something COMPLETELY irrelevant. I've ignored it, although I've been civil in the few times she's text over the years. It will be hard and you WILL feel guilty (although this may be what she wants) but be strong and don't let her back in. You WILL benefit in the long run, I promise x

I'm quite black-and-white about this sort of thing and I'm struggling to understand why you would keep her in your life at all.

I understand that sometimes people keep friends in their life even though they have to work at it... DH, for example, has a friend who has some level of autism and who you hope hope hope you won't be sitting next to when you go out... but their parents have been friends for years and his heart is absolutely in the right place. He might not be fascinating company (DH's friend, that is!) but he cares about other people and wouldn't hurt a fly. I admire the way their friendship group looks out for him, as they're weren't all necessarily the kind of lads you'd expect that from.

From the OP however, your friend sounds like a manipulative bully. She may not be like this all the time, but at this point in your life your hormones will be all over the place, when the baby comes you'll be losing out on sleep, and it's generally a (wonderful, but) tough time emotionally. You need to make sure you have people around you who will back you up and support you, not lash out and make you feel the way you are right now.

I would cut her out, but then I'm harsh like that, I really don't have any interest in wasting time on 'friends' who behave like that. But I would certainly keep distance between you and do not feel guilty for a minute. Anyone who can be that mean simply doesn't deserve it.

it doesn't matter why she hurts you and behaves in this completely appalling and, dare i say it, cruel way.

any person can produce an excuse for their behaviour, there's always a reason. but that doesn't make it ok or something you should put up with indefinitely.

people who struggle/d with depression frequently have issues with setting boundaries and standing up for proper treatment from others. it sounds like you've got a lot of lovely people in your life who don't need "managing" like this woman does, and that's great; but this woman is not great. she is bulldozing all over your emotions and you are accepting that for some reason.

honestly, stop making excuses for her and start thinking about yourself and your little baby. you cannot expose your child to this kind of nasty immaturity and cruelty. your DC will pick up on and internalise every nasty word this woman says to you, and DC will also internalise your acceptance of those nasty words -- DC will learn that it is ok to be treated badly as long as the offender has a "reason" for doing so.

and that is nonsense.

honestly i think it's time to cut this woman off completely. listen to your DH, he cares about you and can see the problem more clearly than you.

if she is autistic, she needs to get therapy.
if she is depressed, ditto.
by giving her carte blanche to behave badly, you're just enabling her and making it more likely that she will never seek help. if you care about her, don't do that to her.

i hope you start to feel better soon x
you REALLY don't have to put up with this.

Thank you so much for your replies - you are all saying what I've been thinking inside, but also wasn't sure whether it was just me being harsh or whether I have done something very wrong to deserve it - the original argument was at least partly my fault. This isn't like me - I'm usually very indignant and confident - but since just recently I've started to doubt myself.

I should point out that she has never done anything like this to me before - in the past she has always had a lot of respect for my opinion and although she has upset a lot of other people, it has been in a very clearly naive way (e.g. talking in detail about birth defects in front of strangers without wondering whether any have had miscarriages - and of course one had/voicing her very loud opinion about buying things on credit in the middle of a well-known sofa shop) but I have always explained to her why it isn't appropriate and she has taken it on board and therefore seen me as some kind of social-yoda. In many ways it has been like looking after a child (DH says that she is like a child emotionally) but I have maybe enjoyed that role?

I can't really put my finger on when this changed, but I think it's been in the pipeline for a long time. babbashouse and oikopolis you have really put your finger on the thing that is bothering me so much. I don't feel like I can just call her and have it out because I can't put my unborn son through the stress. I already have a stressful job and I dread to think how it's affecting him in there.

Yet on the other hand - what if she has lost the baby? (babbashouse I have borrowed her doppler and she said that now she won't need it next week but that she doesn't want to discuss why) I really want to gently ease her out of my life but she isn't giving me the option - it's like I either have to ignore her texts (and face the backlast which I don't feel like I can cope with) or tell her why I don't want to see her (and face the backlash etc...). All I want is to do the right thing for my baby but also to not leave a massive trail of destruction behind me and I don't know how.

This is not you being a bitch, this is a reaction to her behaviour. "I'm still hurting from what you said and need more time" would be a perfectly acceptable response imo

Purplelooby, you need to take care of yourself, and this 'friend' sounds like she isn't a possitive influence, suffering from depression my self i find that if someone is just off, in a way which is unexplainable, and doesn't really make sense, then it can be very disconcerting. Some friendships don't last forever and weren't meant to, let go and move on, you have to think of your own health and your baby's. We can only do so much sometimes to help people. Congrats on the pregnancy by the way! :-)

PS even if this lady doesn't realise she has hust you because of her understanding/social skills/or her situation then it doesn't make it any easier for you or mean that you have to put up with it, and you still need to do what you can to protect your well being and health, all aspects, you are obviously a caring person, so you are worrried about her feelings, but your first consideration has to be your feelings, not because you are selfish or being harsh but because her actions are implimenting on your life, to a greater extent. Hope all goes well and God bless.

My mum has a friend like this - she doesn't have ASD she has a personality disorder with psychosis (diagnosed I'm not being rude). Last time she told me to make allowances for her I told her I couldn't give a shit what's wrong with her - she doesn't get to make me feel like crap just becasue she is rude and abusive, I matter more to me! (why I don't matter more to my mum is a whole other thread).

Basically depression runs in my family - and so do the excuses for abusive nasty people that we have to be nice to wether they are family members or random strangers someone has decided are important. It's a simplification but one of the things that has massivly helped me to over come my depresion is not giving more of a fig about other people than myself especially if I'm not in the wrong.

You arn't in the wrong why do you care?

You can't stay friends with someone who's rude, cruel and self-absorbed because your scared how she'll react! Has she even actually apologised?? A few days of her having a tantrum because she's not getting her way pain for a lifetime of peace.

Firstly, I know you've had depression before, but don't be too quick to diagnose it. I don't have it; I would have had a very similar reaction than you had to your friends text. It's exceedingly nasty, you were probably shocked -being the recipient of violent forms of confrontation (which this is) makes me physically shaky and very weepy at the best of times, let alone when you're pregnant and much more vulnerable emotionally. No wonder you've been like this all week. It may not feel like 'you' but you've obviously been able to manage exceptionally with her behaviour before- unlike other people. unfortunately this might just be the last straw- pregnancy is not the time when people can cope with such abuse and no one should have to.

I just want to validate your feelings as being normal really. By all means, keep an eye on your mood and go to the GP if necessary but don't be too sure you're returning to a time in your life you don't want to be returning to.

My advice would be to make it clear to her that you're out of bounds for a couple weeks and see how you feel then. Put you first here, allow yourself to focus on the great things that you have (up till recently) been enjoying in you life. Make time to relax and spoil yourself.

i understand the fear that you might be "abandoning her" when she has just lost the baby etc.

but again, i think you need to put yourself first here.

there is a consequence to treating people like shit. she has treated you very badly, and now there are consequences to her actions - you are hurt and don't want to be around her.

if she has lost the baby or something, i'm afraid that's an unfortunate coincidence that has nothing to do with you. sorry to sound harsh but you didn't do anything to cause anything bad...that is not your responsibility.

the thing is, when you remove the natural consequences of bad treatment from another person's life, you are not being loving towards them... instead you're encouraging a cycle of nastiness and dare i say it, abusiveness.

the loving thing to do is to let her deal with the effects of her cruelty. when you take them on yourself instead of leaving them at her door where they belong, you are not doing yourself OR her any good.

if you treat you friend very nastily, so nastily that she cries for days and is a shaking wreck, and then you go on to have a m/c or pregnancy issues, and you find that your hurt friend is still wary of you and doesn't run to your aid, then i'm afraid that's what happens when you are nasty and cruel.

this is also a lesson that your DC needs to learn in order to be a happy, decent human being. so start learning that lesson yourself so that by the time DC arrives, you are a seasoned pro at boundary-setting!

I agree with oikopolis 100%!

Do you know the funny thing? I am a teacher and I quite a large part of my job is setting boundaries .

I do agree with what you are all saying. I have a very supportive DH/parents/friends and I think that because of that I feel that I have extra strength to deal with more difficult people (like the teenagers I teach ha ha). I'm just worried because I really haven't made it clear to her that she upset me with her message and so my fear is that when I do tell her that, she might just be in the process of miscarrying. I can't imagine slapping someone while their down IYSWIM. Argh!

DH is saying literally the same thing that you are all saying. He is a very patient man and he is always very even and fair, but even he feels that some time off is required, at least until I feel more able to deal with things.

I have been trying desperately to work out when our friendship changed and I keep coming back to the same thing - I became a Christian a few years ago and this person is a very militant aethiest; the kind who feels that you have to be stupid to be religious, all Christians are anti-evolution/homophobic, etc etc. I mean, most of my friends are aethiest/agnostic and it haven't batted an eyelid and know that I am neither, but I feel like maybe the root of her changes might come from there. Or might not.

Purple you never know, that might be where it comes from. but i think you might want to stop trying to find reasons for her behaviour. we usually look for "reasons" because we want to avoid the nasty/hurtful truth, that the person in question has just been horrible for no good reason (because there is never a good reason is there?) and it really hurts quite badly since it's both unfair and uncalled-for.

I'm just worried because I really haven't made it clear to her that she upset me

i get that.
i do think you need to realise and accept this though - she was trying to injure you. that's what her message was for. it was to hurt you. you yourself said it was a "real character assassination". this wasn't a case of her saying something thoughtless or insensitive... she actually sat down and composed a long message that was designed to make you feel absolutely awful and very very hurt. and then sent it to you!

she knows she hurt you because that's what she was aiming for. if she pleads ignorance at this point, i'm afraid i would say she is simply being manipulative and wanting to guilt you into "forgiving" her and letting it go because "she didn't realise" etc.

if she is honestly ignorant of how much she hurt you, and that is a long shot to be sure, then i'm afraid she doesn't have the kind of social skills that you need in a friend at a time when you are vulnerable to depression etc. she needs a social worker or a psychologist if that's how much education/management she needs.

not trying to be cruel, i think i sound a bit callous, but you know what, you are pregnant and you have your own risks/issues to deal with, and those have to come first.

maybe if you weren't pregnant, and were feeling quite strong, it might be worth trying to sort it out with her, but at this stage of the game i think it's just not worth the risk at all. DC and your mental health have to come first.

she knows she hurt you because that's what she was aiming for.
Oikopolis hits the nail on the head again.