Pregnant Foreign Students

[Jibby123]

Can anyone tell me why foreign students who get pregnant are being treated like criminals within the immigration.

The immigration system allows for the withdrawal of visa from any student who misses 10 classes after having a baby. This is scandalous.

Are foreign mothers inferior to other mothers or does pregnancy affect them in a different way?

Some argue that a visa is given for studies and not to have babies but we know that pregnancies do not necessarily as planned especially when students are allowed to bring their spouses along with them as dependants.

Just because you are a foreign student is not a ban on sex.

This situation puts a lot of pressure on pregnant foreign students and is causing them to go through harrowing experiences while pregnant as they worry about their visa status and are forced to attend studies even when they are not fit to. The pregnancy alone is hard enough.

Pregnancy is not a disease, not a crime and certainly not an immigration offence.

WE need to raise this issue to the government so that they can treat pregnant foreign students in a more humane manner.

Abortion or return to your country. Is this Nazi Germany? I remember the Nazis giving an option of divorce your Jewish spouse or end up in a concentration camp. Do those sound like reasonable options to you?

Not attending your job is not fulfilling the conditions of your visa. You are given a visa to work for a company not to have babies and take time off work yet there is due consideration.

I think there are considerations for a woman who wants to continue studies after delivery. Universities want to keep their students, especially foreign students who most often pay many times even the newly increased tuition paid by UK students. A woman who is set upon continuing studies without interruption should be able to do so if she communicates with her University.

The government's stance on immigration is a different and much broader issue.

(BTW, I am immigrant who works at a University; my husband is a student who has taken a leave of absence to care for me due to my pregnancy complications, thus I know such issues can affect men too!)

You can have all the babies you want - if you contine with your course. The visa is for studying. If you are not studying - well that's that.

You can take an absence of leave while working to have a baby and your visa will not be withdrawn nor will you be expected to go back to your country.

If you come to study then study. If you want to have baby then you can't study so therefore you should return home. If those are the rules you should stick by them. You miss 10 classes that you knew you shouldn't.

I studied in Australia as a international student (at great expense too). When my circumstances changed & I no longer met the visa condition for contact hours, my student visa was revoked & I was given a month to leave.

As I wanted to stay in Oz, I reapplied for a different type of visa outside of the country which was granted. Immigration were less than sympathetic & the whole thing cost me a fortune.

When you decide to study internationally or become an immigrant, you have to live by the conditions of your visa. The rules are the same for everyone, Brits included when abroad.

Having lived in many countries the British are far more accommodating than most & your xenophobic commons are uncalled for.

Thanks ardenbird, that is the first practical and reasonable response so far.

But you must understand my point. Yes the university can give some consideration but my grouse is with the government's stance which does not give proper consideration. It should not be so.

stripeyZ, I am talking about pregnancy not just any change in circumstances.

The situation you went through was difficult but if you had the chance to do things differently, wouldn't you? If there was a way of changing the rules to accommodate pregnant students whether in Oz or in the UK wouldn't that be a good thing?

I believe I am still on mumsnet and not on the migration watch forum.

Any time immigrants are mentioned in any situation all understanding flies out of the window. That is why the use of xenophobia is appropriate.

You say "I remember nazis " like you dare compare that to your argument!!! so how old are you exactly if you remember?

Jibby I think you're flogging a dead horse here. We get it. And it would seem we don't have a problem with the rules as they are. Again, if this is an issue you or someone you know is dealing with, they need to speak to their university. This is nothing to do with us xenophobe Brits singling out pregnant women for a bit of discrimination

I did not say "I remember nazis" I said "I remember the nazis". Totally different things. You should check your intelligence because it is lacking here if you can't see that I was comparing the extreme options tabled.

But if someone is here to work (and falls pg) then you are contributing to the economy. If you are in a country to study, then you aren't really are you? It seems reasonable not to expect people to try and get pg when they are studying, particularly if visa has only been issued in order to study.

And again, in my situation had I chosen to take a break in my studies, as a citizen, I would have been welcome to do so. But they would have sent me home too. I wouldn't have been registered as a student for the time I was on a break, I wouldn't have been allowed to use their facilities or live on their campus. No difference, except the distance I'd have had to travel to get back home.

You can not have any problem with the rules because they don't affect you. I am speaking on behalf of those who are affected.

But it's not about the university being sympathetic. They have a legal duty to report ten missed contacts, whether they are sympathetic or not. However, there are significant differences in the ways in which institutions interpret the sponsor guidance and in the definition of what those ten contacts actually mean.

OP, I get where you are coming from, and I agree that there should be some relaxation of the rules for pregnant students, though I disagree that it is impossible to arrange a leave of absence prior to the visa being revoked. The points based system was introduced to prevent people coming into the country on student visas with no intention of studying, not to penalise genuine students who happen to fall ill or get pregnant etc. Unfortunately, the latest round of changes is likely to deter lots of genuine students from coming to the uk at all - and that could mean billions of lost income to this country. :(

I don't think it's as simple as saying they're pregnant so they will just have to go home. It isn't always that easy.

swanker, the fees paid by foreign students and their living expenses contribute to the economy as well.

My understanding, though, is that the govt deliberately leaves it up to the university to decide when those 10 contact points would be.

For many undergradutes, whether they're foreign or not, the degree isn't really set up to accommodate pregnancy and time out must be taken by special arrangement.

For many postgrads, the same no longer applies - lots of students have babies during postgrad study. Those I know who're not UK citizens have simply arranged to meet at slightly different times - but if you're only meeting a supervisor once every three or four months, this is hardly noticeable.

I do think it would be a good idea to waive the very expensive fees charged for applying for a visa from outside the UK if a student has taken a short, pre-arranged period of maternity leave out at home. I don't know how feasible it'd be, but it'd be very humane IMO since it is so pricey.

Wow, ok, massive cross post.

The sniping isn't exactly coming across well.

fuckity - that may well be true of your university but it's not true of all, or all courses. If I had a baby, I'd get maternity leave but I'd still be allowed to use the library and so on. Mind, so would foreign students so I dunno where that leaves you!

HoneyandHaycorns, absolutely there is a legal requirement for the university to report. At least you have a clear understanding of what I have been trying to pass across. Yes the rules are rules but pregnancy happens and if we are to treat pregnancy as a natural occurrence, not some kind of disease to be removed (someone mentioned abortion so casually), then it has to be recognised in the laws of the land whether for subjects or for foreigners within reasonable terms.

As an undergrad? My understanding is, if you're not paying fees (and presumably you wouldn't be if you're on a pre arranged maternity leave) and not attending seminars and lectures, they wouldn't renew my student card for that year. Hence, no library access. I could be wrong though.

I'm not sure why pregnancy should take priority over illness, bereavement or any other change in circumstances.

All these are disruptive to studying and the ability to attend the course. Whether your in your own country or not it often means taking a break from the course.

It's a double bum if you happen to be abroad & visa restricted but that's what happens when you don't have residency somewhere. It's the risk you take when you opt to go abroad.

I think part of the problem is that some institutions are too literal in their interpretation of the rules, primarily because they are worried about having their sponsor licenses revoked.

I think it makes sense to treat people on student visas in the same way as those on work visas - that would make sense, but it doesn't matter.

swanker, it's nonsense to say that overseas students make no contribution to the uk economy.