How could a doctot tell, years ago?

[Curviest]

Before pregnancy tests (I am thinking, in the 1940s for example) how did a woman's doctor know she was pregnant? Apart from asking about her last period, I mean? What ARE the signs and how far advanced would she have to be before the doctor could see these signs? Thanks, Helena

They feel for the uterus, through the vagina and abdomen. The test has a name, but I can't remember.

A nice link on the history of pregnancy testing.

Urine based tests were used by the Ancient Egyptians. There was an HCG test available by the 1920s (source of phrase "your rabbit died").

It was only when there was a reliable and affordable test that women were first encouraged to go to the doctors for "official" confirmation of a pregnancy, rather than working it out themselves.

My mum said that even in the late seventies (pg with me) that they wouldn't offer an appt. until you had missed 2 periods so ladies would be much further along when having it confirmed - therefore easier to note physical changes. Mum said (in her experience) m/cs were rarely noted as such but were considered late irregular periods.

Amazing really that we can now easily obtain tests that can tell before first period is due.

Thanks, ladies. I am thinking more in the docot's surgery, how he could tell immediately by physical examination.... so, Belgo, how many weeks pregnant would a woman have to be, before her GP could tell through feeling for the uterus, through the vagina?

I'm really puzzled by this. I can't work out how feeling inside her vagina or pressing her abdomen could tell him anything, since the foetus would be so tiny.... when would it become big enough for him to feel it? Cheers...

It's at about 6 weeks plus for uterine enlargement (more is growing than just the baby).

But, before the legalisation of termination of pregnancy, there wasn't any great need to know exactly in the early stages, and early medicalised confirmations were neither sought nor routinely urged.

Hi George thanks for that ... is this because the doc could not possibly tell if a woman was only 4 or 6 weeks .... I'm still intrigued to know how he could tell at 8 or 10, though!

My mum was due to have an exploratory operation to find out why she couldn't get pg. She went to the hospital for the op only to find out that the GP had phoned the hospital to cancel the op as she was already pg (they weren't on the phone!).

She was over 3m pg and it had taken that long to confirm what she suspected when she missed her first period.

Oh Thanks Edith, for that information about six weeks. SO you are saying that a doctor could tell just 6 weeks into a pregnancy that his patient was pregnant?

I remember seeing a tv show ages ago and one of the early pregnancy tests was to inject a woman's wee into a female frog, if she was pregnant her hormones would make the frog spawn.

From wikipedia - "An improvement arrived with the frog test, introduced by Lancelot Hogben, which still was used in the 1950s and allowed the frog to remain alive and be used repeatedly: a female frog was injected with serum or urine of the patient; if the frog produced eggs within the next 24 hours, the test was positive. This was called the Bufo test, named after the toad genus Bufo, which was originally used for the test. Other species of toads and frogs have been used later on."

Well, probably. Early examination is, for obvious reasons, less reliable. And as I posted above, it was simply not usual to seek a doctor's confirmation early on.

Any particular reason why you're asking?

I had a termination about 20 years ago and had an internal examination to date the pregnancy to see whether I was a candidate for a, then quite recently introduced, medical termination. They dated me at seven weeks based on the size of my uterus.

Hey LackaDaisy - scans were definitely around 25 years ago (and longer ago than that). I know because I had many.

My mother said that in the 50s and earlier, drs confirmed preganacy by doing an internal examination at 3 months.

3 months Crystal?

Edith -- to settle an argument. My friend reckons that a woman 7 weeks pg could go to her GP in the 1940s and without a pregnancy test he would know if she was pregnant. Just by looking at her. But I cannot work out how any inspection of her abdomen or vagina could tell him that she was.

Is it something to do with softening of the cervix?

You friend may be right medically, but is wrong socially.

In the 1940s women simply didn't go to a doctor for early PG confirmations.

@ frog test!

That is AMAZING :)

Thank you wise and knowledgeable women of Mumsnet.

My doctor confirmed my pregnancy 7 years ago with an internal exam, I was only about 5 weeks at the time, she could date it as well. She retired the same year.

(Sorry - that's of course right medically if pelvic exam. Diagnosing PG just by looking a woman strikes me as on a par with divination by entrails).

Edith: yes I agree! What about the softening cervix point that Crystal made? Is that how the doc could tell? Though poking a cervix seems like a bad idea -- m/c?

So Edith waht would a 1940s woman do if she missed a period and wanted confirmation of pg?

Doesn't the cervix change it's appearance even in early pregnancy?

Well she could go to a doctor, or see a midwife, or talk to her mother/sister etc.

In the days before scanning/legal termination, there wasn't any actual advantage to knowing straight away. Estimated timings would have been from LMP (or DH's absence of leave from war or national service), and taken only as a rough indicator anyhow. It was a totally different approach and set of expectations.

Yes indeed Edith, I get your points entirely. Women were more content to jsut let nature take her course (well, they had to be!)

So are we agreed, or not, that a doctor in the 1940s COULD tell a woman who was 7 weeks pregnant, that she was definitely pregnant? I mean without any kind of frog or other test?

I had my first in 1980. The GP didn't want to know until I had missed 2nd periods. I took a urine sample into the chemist and they rang me at work to tell me the result. This was in a small village and one of mums friends worked in the chemist.....nothing was secret for long.
GP eventually confirmed by asking questions about breast changes etc and an internal. There was no great rush to book in at the hospital either.

My mother more than 40 years ago, had missed periods but the chemist tests had been showing negative. Having been pregnant before she was sure she was, but the tests said otherwise.

When one of her other children was ill she told the doctor of her confusion. He did the "normal" vaginal examination on her, of viewing the cervix to see the change in colour to confirm pregnancy. Apparently the cervix changes to a purplish colour in pregnancy.

Feeling the height of the uterus in reference to the pelvic bone helped to date the pregnancy too.