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Pregnancy

Talk about every stage of pregnancy, from early symptoms to preparing for birth.

Vitamin D?

50 replies

farmerswifey · 24/01/2012 08:43

Having just watched BBC Breakfast News, the medical expert suggested that recently more children are being born with bone deficiency due to a lack of vitamin D throughout pregnancy. It also went on to say that 73% of woman didn't know that they were supposed to take vitamin D supplements - I certainly haven't been told at any point that I should and the only thing I've been told to take was Folic Acid for the first 12 weeks.

Does anyone know if I should be taking vitamin D? Are you taking it, and if so how much?

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Are your children’s vaccines up to date?
thisisyesterday · 24/01/2012 08:46

no, i;'ve never taken it. i am sure i spend enough time outside to get vitamin D

pommedenoel · 24/01/2012 08:47

thisisyesterday - But assuming you live in the UK it is very hard to get vitamin d from sunlight in the winter and we need to up fit d foods in the winter.

thistlemuncher · 24/01/2012 08:53

It's in most pregnancy vitamins. Also in calcium tablets(helps with absorption). I have been taking calcium tabs for ages (dentist told me to) and when I started taking of vitamins ended up with pins and needles in my head and scalp and other weird places. Midwife told me it was a vit d overdose and to stop taking either calcium or pg vits. Haven't had it since, so be careful you don't take too much!

thistlemuncher · 24/01/2012 08:54

Of vitamins = pg vitamins

stuffthenonsense · 24/01/2012 08:54

Theres definately enough in pregnacare vit tablets...and they are suitable for breastfeeding too.

Juule · 24/01/2012 08:55

NHS advice on Vit.D

thisisyesterday · 24/01/2012 08:57

well i eat fortified cereals and non-dairy milk so sure i'm fine.
you still get vitamin D from sun in winter though don't you? just not as much?

MrsLister · 24/01/2012 08:58

I've been on Pregnacare Plus since I found out I was preggers. I think they've got Vitamin D in them?

They've got just about everything else!

beginnersluck · 24/01/2012 09:14

I asked my midwife about it and she didn't know but apparently it is a good thing to take - I'm off pregnacare so got some liquid vitamin D3 from Holland and Barratt (it's an orange-flavoured oil, 4 drops per day which is 10ug)

Macaroons · 24/01/2012 09:14

I'm on pregnacare too. Seems to have folic acid and vitamin D plus a bunch of other stuff in the recommended proportion.

freelancegirl · 24/01/2012 09:52

It's a different situation as I have had several miscarriages (no children as yet but currently 14 weeks pregnant) but I have read a lot of research on Vitamin D for supporting pregnancy and my specialist has told me to take an extra 25 units (I am not sure what units they are sorry - just the standard ones that are in Boots or Holland & Barratt though) a day on top of Pregnacare. All going well so far, and I know a lot of people who have had miscarriages and are not having specialist care who are doing the same thing. Vitamin D3 is in a yellow pot in Holland and Barratt if you're interested.

HERE's a bit of info about it in relation to miscarriage prevention. I think generally it is about modulating the immune system.

MiauMau · 24/01/2012 10:00

Saw it on the news today as well. They also mentioned it awhile ago, and said that wearing sun block also doesn't help, so for me it's a choice between looking like a lobster and vitamin D?

TadlowDogIncident · 24/01/2012 10:07

I was annoyed about this - I'm dark skinned so at greater risk of vitamin D deficiency than a Caucasian, and no-one suggested I should take supplements while pregnant or breastfeeding. I found a reference to the advice (possibly on here) when DS was 3 months old and started taking supplements then, as it was the dead of winter and very dark. I didn't take anything in pregnancy except folic acid as I have a pretty good diet and am generally a bit sceptical about all-purpose vitamin supplements.

freelancegirl · 24/01/2012 10:29

There's another good article on it:

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7656620/Large-dose-of-vitamin-D-in-pregnancy-cuts-premature-births-research.html

  • about how the current recommended dosage might be too low. Either way I have been happy to take the extra 25 on top of the Pregnacare. My research at the time showed that at that dose it wouldn't do any harm and could potentially be very beneficial. It is even more important for people who have thyroid conditions (if that is relevant to anyone here) as they can go hand in hand with Vitamin D deficiency. And for people with dark skin or anyone who doesn't get enough sun.
spannermary · 24/01/2012 13:08

I've been taking vitamin D since about 10 weeks. I had terrible HG and was aware I wasn't going to leave the house for a while - but certainly wasn't able to stomach a pregnacare sized supplement so researched it then, and came across the advice that is now being discussed. Also, it was autumn so didn't think it'd do any harm as the nights drew in. No HCP has ever mentioned it though which is pretty poor. FYI I'm now taking Sainsbury's own pregnancy vitamins and they don't lost Vit D, so I'm still taking them.

dcb · 24/01/2012 15:02

Midwives should know this - it is current rec advice to take vit D during pregnancy and breastfeeding. I am astonished that there are MW who don't know this!

The sunlight is not strong enough the majority of the time in the UK to make vit D. As a general rule, May to Sept, 20 mins per day of hands, arms and face exposure to bright sun should be enough in the general population. Both my kids are/will be on vit D supps all year round and I'm taking supp as still breastfeeding. My mum also now has a vit D supp as she doesn't go outdoors due to ill health. It's really diff to get your daily requirements from food, no matter how much oily fish, eggs, fortified foods you eat.

It's important not just in pregnancy/breastfeeding but for all ages really (linked to osteoporosis/fractures, heart disease, some cancers and possibly neurodegenerative disorders).

Numberjacker · 24/01/2012 18:39

I was told at my booking-in appointment to take 10ug of vitamin D, every day, throughout pg and BF. Especially as we are in the winter months.

Maybe the advice varies from region to region?

ChineapplePunk · 24/01/2012 20:04

It is very difficult to get too much Vit D. I am taking Pregnacare which has, as others have mentioned, the recommended 10 mcg's per day, however, I am seriously thinking about taking a separate Vit D supplement on top of that. As freelancegirl has said "it wouldn't do any harm and could potentially be very beneficial".

Macaroons · 24/01/2012 22:23

Boots is doing 3 for the price of 2 offer at the moment, worth checking out!

NoOneSpecial · 26/01/2012 17:59

Having been doing my own online research for research papers on VitD for the last 5 years and there is simply thousands of articles related to VitD or factors that can vary the amount of UV-B you get, Google in this case is your friend if you want to investigate and be more informed yourself, but I thought I'd share what I have found so far.

The reason for doing so is simply that as an office based swm stuck in front of a computer for upto 14hours a day, I started noticing my health deteriatoring and having no success with the dr's I started looking elsewhere. When I say health, I mean lack of energy, no desire to jump out of bed in the morning, aches and pains, putting on weight, feeling depressed that sort of thing although I know alot of people will say thats just part of getting old, I disagree!

Basically VitD is essential for healthy a life, in 2010 the charity the Wellcome Trust discovered whilst reverse engineering the human genome there are 2776 Vitamin D Receptors (VDR's) in the human genome, the vast majority concentrated around the immune system genes. www.wellcome.ac.uk/News/Media-office/Press-releases/2010/WTX062545.htm

Now you can get VitD from food but in very small quantities, foods that contain it are egg yolks, reindeer meat, and wild caught oily fish. 0101.nccdn.net/1_5/3a0/1e8/00e/Cannell-Vitamin-D-study.pdf
It also adds weighting to the arguement about eating seasonal local foods as well, for example the northern countries Norway Sweden, Greenland etc traditionally eat more oil fish for example.

The UK and US govts have a Vit D RDA guideline of 400 UI (Units International - its a french measurement).

Anyway becuase our modern hectic lifestyles which mainly consists of being indoors out of the sun and the Govt advice for the last decade of stay out the sun etc as created what I would call a health epedemic (strong words I know but time and research will prove me right). To understand why the UK Govt put this message out you need to trace it back to its roots. This advice of staying out of the sun comes from Australia and for those who did history will know that the UK used to ship their criminals off to Australia yet if you look at the native Aborigines there are dark skin so theres a clue there as to why (white) Australians were getting skin cancer.

Now if you consider that virtually all mammals infact all life including plants need the sun, it seemed counter intuitive to slap on the sunscreen so I started to dig more.

Having found this site www.uvguide.co.uk/uvinnature.htm it transpired that Reptiles also suffer from a sort of Rickets only they call it Metabolic Bone Disease/Syndrome exoticpets.about.com/cs/reptilesgeneral/a/metabolicbd.htm

Now these Reptile owners love their pets so some of them organised themselves to start looking into this problem and also started looking at the existing heat lamps. This led them to start measuring the UV-B from around different parts of the world results shown here in this graph for Dec 2005 www.uvguide.co.uk/images/decsolstfairweather-800px.gif
and here for Wales during June 2005 in Wales www.uvguide.co.uk/images/solarUVBJune05Chart.gif. You can see in Wales the most amount of UV-B goes up to 350uW/cm2 yet in Australia during their summer it gets up to 450uW/cm2 so the Australians get higher levels of UV exposure and thus is it any surprise they get higher rates of Skin Cancer?

UV-B is what is needed, specifically the wavelength 297nm, it should also be noted that the UK definition of UV-A and UV-B wavelength range varies to the US definitation of UV-A and UV-B wavelength ranges as well just to confuse matters.

Anyway having established UV-B is what reptiles need, I started looking elsewhere for human info and confirmed that UV-B exposure to the skin is needed to help produce Vit D. www.direct-ms.org/sites/default/files/Engelsen%20vitamin%20D%20synthesis.pdf
This paper from Norway confirms that at 70 degrees latitude VitD synthesis is absent for 5 months of the year.

Theres a handy calculator where you can put in your longtitude and latitude and work out how much Vit D you might produce zardoz.nilu.no/~olaeng/fastrt/VitD.html, you can get your Long/Lat from here touchmap.com/latlong.html just zoom in to where you live, put a blue marker on your position, then click on the blue marker again to see the Long/Lat in the popup mousetip. Put in the date, select the type of weather it is, work out the Ozone and you get a better idea of how much Vit D you might produce, but the link only concentrates on atmospheric Ozone, it doesnt measure groundlevel Ozone which is the smog alert you see on the BBC weather during the summer.

Car fumes reacting in the sunshine produce low level Ozone which can also trigger Asthma attacks for some.

Now it should be noted that whilst UV-B reflects off manmade surfaces like roads & concrete buildings becuase of the vehicle polution, the UV-B exposure to the skin in a City/Town can be upto 3 times less than in the countryside. So whilst plants absorb alot of UV-B for themselves which means we dont get it reflected back onto our skin when sunbathing in the garden the overriding factor here is the car pollution that reacts in the sun to produce Ozone which then blocks UV-B from getting down to the ground level on our skin.

In some respects if you sunbath in your garden in a town or city you will need to do it for upto 3 times longer than if you were in the countryside away from vehicle pollution and dont forget airports in this case as well.

With regard to sunbathing safety, the current advice given out by some charities is get some sun but dont burn or go red. Now it should be noted the body produces melanin (what makes us go brown) when exposed to UV-B. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_tanning#UVB www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC524044/

UV-B creates the melanin or pigment, UV-A reactivates the melanin. Sunbeds in tanning salons typically output UV-A. It should also be noted once you have a full good tan, the skin will reflect 99% of UV light protecting your further. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melanin and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoprotection "Melanin is such an efficient photoprotective substance that it dissipates more than 99.9% of the absorbed UV radiation as heat. [2] This means that less than 0.1% of the excited melanin molecules will undergo harmful chemical reactions or produce free radicals."
Looks like nature has also created our own sunscreen as well!

Anyway where the science isnt clear is exactly how the Vit D is produce, whilst is generally stated the skin produces Vit D its more complex than that and again other advice from the Govt on Cholesterol reduction comes into play here. Firstly its not known if its the skin that produces that Vit D or the sebum (oil secreted by the skin) reacting in the UV-B and then being absorbed back into the skin that is creating the 1st form of Vit D, this hasnt been researched adequantly, so daily showers washing off our natural oils could also be hindering our abilities to produce 1st stage Vit D or Pro/Pre Vitamin D. Reason I say this is simply this, if a suntan is reflecting 99% of the UV, how can the body still produce Vit D? Unless its the skins own oils (which we normally wash off in daily showers) reacting in the sun like it does for other animals like cats, dogs, & sheep for example and then being absorbed back into the skin that then enables the body to process it into the finished VitD. Needs more medical studies here but as most of this is paid for by BigPharma including sponsorship of medical degrees at Uni which enables them to influence the curriculmn, only charities like the Wellcome Trust and Cancer/Skin charities can do this.

Anyway once its absorbed into the skin it travels down to the liver where the liver takes about 12-14days to convert it into another form of VitD, but the liver needs Cholesterol to do this which comes from fat. Now bear in mind Alcohol can damage the liver, avoiding alcohol for a few weeks after being in the sun say on holiday (I know I know) could be even more beneficial to us. Again no research on this, but bear in mind Alcohol damages the liver so consuming alcohol could be like shooting ourselves in the foot with regards to our helth, its already been noted than Alcohol increases the incidence of Cancer in humans so is becuase we cant produce enough Vit D to boost our immune system? The Kidneys also process the VitD before it becomes fully fledged Vit D at which point it becomes beneficial to the human body and if the levels are high enough only then will the body also start to store it for those days when the weather isnt good and we cant get any sun.

Now its been noted in one little known study that Cholesterol levels go down in British Gardeners during the summer months. I originally found this from this link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol but its since been removed but other sites have picked up on it like this one www.hivehealthmedia.com/5-reasons-vitamin/ but it should be noted its accepted medical knowledge that Cholesterol is required to produce Vit D so your low cholesterol diet could also be inhibiting your health ie if you dont have enough cholesterol you cant produce enough Vit D.

It should also be noted that rich people live 7 years longer than the average www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/7205647/Well-off-people-live-seven-years-longer-than-those-in-poorer-groups.html Why is this? I'd say a number of factors but how about the fact they probably spend more time in the sun as well?

Another point about vitamin D is it isnt actually a Vitamin (another medical mistake), its a steroid hormone which boosts the body. Have you ever wondered why during the summer months your hair and nails grow faster than during the winter months? I'd say VitD levels is why, in fact the rate of hair and nail growth I would say is an indicator of your VitD levels in your body albeit a slow indicator but an indicator nonetheless.

Anyway it looks likes the world is realising we do need sunshine after all and that our modern lifestyles could actually be harming our health. You only have to look at the number of new news stories on the subject like here www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&gl=uk&tbm=nws&btnmeta_news_search=1&q=vitamin+d&oq=vitamin to see that more and more charities are finding positive results for it.

Also if you didnt know, there is actually a number of different types of Vitamin D. D2 is the plant derived form which is toxic at far lower doses than D3. You get D2 by exposing some plant forms like Mushrooms to UV light but this isnt commercially viable, D3 is the most active form of VitD and most beneficial to the humans and other animals including reptiles.

I've also been taking 10,000ui as a daily supplement on a daily basis for the last 3 years and can say my health has improved enourmously, more energy, no aches, better concentration, I just couldnt recommend it enough.

The East Germans and Russians knew about Vit D during the 50's when they experimented with it during the olympics for example, associations.sou.edu/aaaspd/2011SANDIEGO/Workshops11.html#4
www.vitamindsportsbook.com/new-book-athletes-edge-faster-quicker-stronger-with-vitamin-d-john-cannell-will-vitamin-d-become-the-new-performance-enhancing-drug/

The thing to remember though is its a steriod human which will boost your immune system and will be very beneficial for the human body.

Another point to make is that you also need to up your magnesium levels and calcium levels, otherwise the body cant utilise it as effectively as possible.
www.vitamindcouncil.org/about-vitamin-d/vitamin-d-cofactors/magnesium/

Magnesium is best taken by eating your greens (where have you heard thatbefore), what makes plants green is Chlorophyll, and a primary compenent of chlorophyll is magnesium. Magnesium supplements will have you go to the loo faster than you really want to, so getting the natural form of it ie vegetables or greens is the best source. Believe it or not there is also more calcium to be had from eating ones greens than in milk as well and if you live in a hard water area ie high in calcium or chalk your health will benefit more if you have the right ratio of magnesium as well.

Unfortunately alot of the medical profession are not as up to date as they could be on VitD and becuase they tend to focus on one specific area they dont always see the connections from other dietary sources as well, its a flaw in the way science work ie they dont alway take a step back and see the bigger picture, but if you have any questions about it, google is your friend as a starting point and if you want the best for you kids, ie help them achieve the academic potential and set them up with good health etc etc you should look into it for yourself and draw your own LOGICAL conclusions, but ensure you know what form of VitD is being referred to ie D2 or D3 (the NHS has tended to prescribe D2 in the past and most medical references unless specifically mentioned tend to be look at D2 as well).

Some other benefits of Vitamin D3 to hopefully whet the appetite!

Conception & IVF? www.vitamindwiki.com/tiki-index.php?page_id=1031

Pregnancy www.bbc.co.uk/news/10486310
donmatesz.blogspot.com/2009/10/new-study-vitamin-d3-supplementation.html

Depression www.netdoctor.co.uk/interactive/news/children-with-high-vitamin-d-levels-less-likely-to-be-depressed-id801270222-t116.html

Cancer www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/prevention/vitamin-D
scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2009/09/21/vitamin-d-and-cancer-survival/

Flu and Asthma www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/19/us-vitamind-study-idUSTRE62I3MK20100319

www.newsday.co.zw/article/2011-11-18-doctors-on-call-vitamin-d-alleviates-asthma

www.ourcoloradonews.com/health/ages/why-everyone-needs-a-little-more-vitamin-d/article_c08d91f4-3ff9-11e1-805a-0019bb2963f4.html

The bottom line is (if you have made it this far ;-) ) is VitD3 is good for you even Eli lilley carried out a study on Vit D with their own drugs and concluded most of their drug treatments work even more effectively with Vit D3! edrv.endojournals.org/content/26/5/662.full

Finally, I've been taking 10,000ui of D3 on a daily basis for the last 3 years and have followed the sort of diet a T2 diabetic with a gluten intolerance would follow, ie no sugar (just honey becuase at least it contains minerals) and no cereals/grains or any sorts. The result is I have lost weight as well and for a block who sits in front a computer for anything from 10-14 hours a day nearly 7 days a week, has a cooked breakfast everyday, by cutting out my sugar which I noticed made me binge more on food, I have lost weight without trying! In fact by eating fatty foods, getting as much sun as possible its been too easy to get into shape which aint bad for a bloke nearly touching 40 and I have no bear belly!

Anyway I thought I would share what I have learnt so that it can be of use to you (if you havent switched off by now)! ;-)

uv · 27/01/2012 14:59

Perhaps this will be clearer. I'm a PhD chemist. I've been researching vitamin D for the past 2 years, since my daughter was born.

Most of this information has been collected and summarized very well by Dr. Oliver Gillie, who is basically a journalist, but has been campaigning about vitamin D for the past several years. He has a lot of information at his website: www.healthresearchforum.org.uk

Basically, the British Isles are a really challenging place for humans to live without relying on fatty fish as a large part of the diet. Natural vitamin D is just too limiting, and it now seems to be involved in many diseases. Fatty fish are the best natural source of vitamin D, and eating them continuously allows the Dutch, Norwegians and Inuit (Eskimo) to survive. The Scots used to rely on herring, too, but consumption went down during WWII due to submarine attacks and then later due to falling fish stocks. And the Scots now have terrible health statistics. Multiple sclerosis is a particular problem in Scotland and is now linked to vitamin D. (see shineonscotland.com/)

Vitamin D is made from cholesterol in the skin through a process that requires UV light. Most of us have adequate cholesterol. Because of the latitude of the UK and because of the number of cloudy days, it is very difficult to get enough of UV light on the skin to make enough vitamin D. It simply can't be done in winter, so you have to build up supply in summer to carry you through. Unfortunately, with all advice to stay out of the sun and to always wear sunscreen, that isn't happening. Basically, if you don't burn at the first sight of sun, then you should enjoy as much British sunshine as you possibly can. (It's a different story in the south of France). Sunscreen blocks the UV, which also means you don't make vitamin D.

Babies are born with a certain amount of vitamin D, which depends on how much their mother has during pregnancy. If the mother is deficient, the baby may be in for serious health problems including seizures and heart attack. Many mother's seem to have lower vitamin D levels with each pregnancy, so even if the 1st one is fine, the 3rd may be more at risk. Even when the mother is not deficient, vitamin D levels in breast milk aren't very high. This means that a baby who is solely breastfed and kept out of the sun can easily become deficient. If you are pale skinned, leave your baby in dappled shade for as long as possible around noon. Take off as many clothes as possible. It's only exposed skin that makes vitamin D. If your baby has darker skin, try building up the amount of time in full sun as quickly as possible.

The color in skin mainly comes from melanin, which absorbs UV light, protecting the skin from damage. It takes more intense light to burn dark skin. It also takes more intense light to make vitamin D. Supplements are a really good idea, and 1000 IU is probably a good level for most people. 2000-4000 IU is better for pregnancy and lactating. You can overdose with supplements, but taking up to 10,000 IU is probably safe if you make sure to get the cofactors, too - particularly calcium. (you can't overdose in the sun)

There is a lot of confused information about vitamin D and sunshine on the web, including from UK health sites. UV is not the same in different parts of the world, so if the time it takes to get enough vitamin D is measured in Boston (Lat. 42° N), it's not enough in London (Lat. 51° N). And don't even try comparing with Australia!

I'm working on an iPhone app to get this into people's pockets, but it's not quite ready yet.... should be out in a month or so.

FootprintsInTheSnow · 27/01/2012 15:37

My booking bloods came back vitamin D deficient - which surprised me. I started taking a multivitamin - but I would have said that I had a decent diet and spent on average at least 45 mins outside eery day doing school run etc. DC4 - which may be a factor.

parisriv · 27/01/2012 21:19

I can't emphasise how important Vit D is for everyone especially a baby. 3 months ago I almost lost my son because he was vit D deficient. He was well within his weight, looked very healthy and was developing at a reasonable pace. Then he had a seizure one evening that lasted for 10mins and he stopped breathing and had to be resuscitated he had another later in hospital which lasted 15mins. Vit D is responsible for the absorption of calcium. Important for brain dev, muscle dev, heart fnc, bone dev, WALKING, being able to sleep well etc. My son was exclusively breastfeed up until 6mths and then once on solids ate well. I used the Pregnacare range from before conception and I ate very well. But I was still vit D deficient. Its important to remember that vit D CAN NOT be obtained sufficiently from food it has to be from the sun or supplements. Many people on MN have been saying "as long as you eat this and that" this is incorrect! People this is a very serious issue don't give advice if you have no idea what you're talking about! The UK has a large percentage of adults who are vit D deficient or borderline deficient and its because of the lack of sunshine not a bad diet. Women who are deficient may never know they are unless they do a test. If you are deficient you will be unable to pass on enough during pregnancy to your baby. I thought we were a healthy family with a very balanced diet but that made no difference what we needed was sunlight or vit D supplements not a better diet. I urge parents please if you want to choose to not give your child any vit D please either move to a temperate country or have them tested of vit D and calcium. It could save their life! 1 in 3 babies are Vit D deficient and the problem seems to be getting worse here in the UK. This is the info coming from the DOH. Kids have developed Rickkets some babies have died because of this please please Don't take this lightly! It really hurt me that my son almost died because of something so simple.
Btw I have been informed by my sons paediatric consultants that. The info on vit D is not meeting the masses because the frontline health professionals are failing to pass on this info. Its not the easiest thing to pick up either that's why HV's and GP's failed to notice that my son was not well. Please please take vit D and possbly get tested to see if you are deficient because like myself you would require a higher dose than the Pregnacare range provides.

GoitreGirl · 28/01/2012 16:10

Parisriv- I'm so sorry to hear about your boy!

Ive been banging my head against the wall with regard to vit d and health professionals. I've lived in Finland where they are vitamin d mad (normal milk and marg are fortified with it) and they all babies get vit d drops- 3 drops for ff babies and 5 drops for ebf babies.

I also took pregnacare but as my name suggests, I got a goitre and was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid gland afterhe birth of my lo.

Anyway, with the government recommendations, health profs still don't know about them- you cant even buy vit d drops for babies! Luckily I've managed to convince my GP to give me a vit d test, and I give my baby abidec drops.

Even in France, vit d drops are recommended for babies! The uk is really behind....