toxoplasmosis

[yummicheddars]

Soo can you be asked to be tested if your immune to this? I am worried as I emptied cat tray earlier into the outside bin and due to the wind loads blew all over me!

veronica and blackcat - this thread has alerted me to the same thing. I ate (once, under significant social pressure) a rare steak seared on the outside a few months ago. I assumed it was OK as the guidelines say you can eat steak like that, and I didn't have food poisoning. I wasn't aware of the risk of toxoplasmosis and rare meat at the time, and looking back I had a severe cold a few days after eating it.

I actually phoned my GP today because I was suddenly worried I'd been infected. He didn't think testing was worthwhile at this stage (I'm 29 weeks) as there isn't much they can do now anyway, and the risk is proportionally miniscule, esp. as I've been eating rare/cured meat for years before pregnancy and most likely am immune to toxoplasmosis by now. He said after the first trimester the infection is less likely to cause the baby problems, and as my 20 week scan was fine, that it was even less likely that the baby had been damaged (it would have prob showed signs of hydrocephalus etc.)

I don't know what stages you are at but hope there's something reassuring there.

Like you I am cross with the NHS website as it's totally misleading. The Tommy's leaflet is clear that rare/cured meat is the leading source of infection - you'd think the NHS would be clear on that in the guidelines...

veronica I've never understood this guidance either. Any decent butcher will tell you to thoroughly cook the meat through if you're pg...and I do all my customers (work in a supermarket). I do tell them if they ask about the NHS guidance, but I also add that it's confusing

I think it's because most people panic about listeria but it doesn't even occur to think about toxo...because after all it's those evil pesky cats that will get you

I even know someone that thought about "getting rid" of their cats when they found out they were pg, yet merrily went to a petting zoo hand handled lambs...needless to say a decent bollocking from me and a few links to studies and advice (like the Tommy's site) and she was willing to disbelieve the nhs website and her MW.

Does this mean no pepperoni pizza and no bacon?! They're the only 'meats' I've been able to face during this awful morning sickness!

Peas they'll be fine as they will be cooked above 70 degrees.

Pepperoni on pizza is not an issue - unless you're in the habit of eating raw pizza with your peas and yoghurt! :)

Ok, i've just had a nosey on the internet - let's get some context around this as there seems to be a sense of panic on this thread.

From the published research I could find:

Yes, undercooked meat can be a source of Toxoplasmosis. It's known that you need temperatures below -20C or above 70C to kill the cysts. The effects of salting and fermentation are not known or proven.

It's estimated that 1/3rd of the UK population has been infected with toxoplasmosis. Upto 90% of those infected with toxoplasmosis will not have symptoms. Between 30-60% of infections may be attributed to food, but these studies are not reliable.

There were 720,000 births in the UK in 2010. Congenital toxoplasmosis affects 1 in 10,000 live births, so if I've got my sums right, that's about 70 cases a year, or a 0.0001% chance. When you compare this with the kind of results you might get back from, for example, a Down Syndrome test, I think most people would say the odds are very, very low (but of course, still possible). To add some more perspective, compare this to the 2-3% of babies who develop a congenital or genetic-determined abnormalities.

And this doesn't even cover the cases where toxoplasmosis causes a problem. Less than 5% of these cases (about 3 babies) would have severe neurological defects and upto 30% (21 infants) would develop ocular problems by the age of 3.

I guess my point is that yes the outcome can be tragic, but the likelihood of being affected is exceptionally low. I can understand why the NHS doesn't offer routine screening. What is odd is that the Tommy stats don't stack up against the latest NICE findings (unfortunately Tommy doesn't supply references).

Oh, and to the OP, I'd be the first to ask to be tested if I'd inhaled cat litter, eugh! I hope the test came out ok.

My references:
National Office for Statistics - birth rate
NHS Screening Portal - Screening for Toxoplasmosis
[[http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/toxoplasmosis.pdf ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON THE MICROBIOLOGICAL SAFETY OF FOOD
TOXOPLASMOSIS AND FOOD - 2006]]

plinkertyplonk i agree its so rare to catch but if it was you who did...I know stats are on my side but until I get the all clear i won't feel entirely easy about what i ate and I am very cross about the muddled guidelines being given by the NHS.
I was surprised by Tommy's figures re numbers of babies affected but under reporting must be large as so many women will not know they have been infected and will not have babies with any obvious problems. It can take many, many years for problems to develop following exposure to toxo in the womb. Yes it is rare but also entirely preventable, and this was one reason given for routine screening not to start when it was reviewed recently. Sadly unless the NHS give clear consistent guidelines how can we ensure we follow safe practices? (or make an informed choice not to as the risks are so low).

I agree the guidelines should be clearer and don't reflect their own findings. And yes I should think many cases do go unreported.

Try not to worry though. Yes there is a tiny, tiny possibility of contracting complications from undercooked venison and the test results will hopefully give you the reassurance you are looking for, but another way of looking at it is that you could give birth to 9,999 babies before becoming infected and even if you were infected, you and your baby may never develop any symptoms.

My view is that there are risks associated with everything in life and whilst we can avoid many of them, sometimes things don't go to plan and it's just too easy to scare ourselves into thinking the worse case every time. I'm trying not to think about all the raw eggs (neighbours' chickens, no 'red lion' mark!), soft blue cheese, raw meat and alcohol I've (mostly inadvertently) consumed since conceiving.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Haha, thanks spannermary! Cheered me up! Fortunately my pizzas are of the cooked variety, and whilst I can't say I'm adverse for adding a smattering of peas (which obviously makes it all so 'healthy', haha) I promise I leave the yoghurt for pudd (for the time being at least - who know what could kick in once the odd cravings begin!) xx

Thanks for all the info. I am 18 wks pregnant and for the last 4 weeks have been worrying sick about toxoplasmosis.... It started with not well cooked sausages over Christmas ( or so I fear) and the latest one, as of last night, is washing the plant pot for my basil (and the soil getting into my blood through a small, 1 cm, paper cut). I have two cats at home (they go out) and that is another source of constant worry....
I am off to the doctor today as it is all getting too much.

I'm glad people have emailed the editor for the NHS website, because the pegnancy NHS book I got from my midwife (lokks like a telephone directory) says the same, lamb and beef are safe to eat if pink on the inside but well sealed on the outside.

did you ever ...
play with cat poo in the sand pit?
sleep with cats?
share food with them (let them lick your cereal spoon, for instance)?
clean up their fur balls?
Clean up their gifts the dead things they bring home, especially birds?
Do a lot of digging in soil, especially with bare hands?
drink raw milk whilst growing up?
have any not perfectly hygienic contact with wild birds or their corpses?

If so, you've had toxop already, pretty guaranteed.

i wish people would stop with the 'its highly likely you're already immune' thing.
Its estimated that between 30-50% of the uk population have had Toxoplasmosis and once you're had it you are immune. That leaves 50-70% who are NOT immune. According to Tommy's who have taken over the work of the Toxoplamosis Trust around 2,000 UK pregnant women get infected every year.

I agree with blackcatsdancing's comment, to say things like "it is highly likely / pretty guaranteed that you are immune" is just an off-the-shelf answer that does not mirror the stats (or the experiences of many people that, having lived / worked with cats) find themselves with no immunity.
I accept that there is a relatively low risk in catching it (that is linked to the very fact that the overall rate of prevalence in the population is not that high!), but it is a 'low risk - high impact' issue...hence the worries!

I agree, Blackcats and Joiningin. Most of the risks we are told to avoid taking in pregnancy are very small, thankfully, but the potential impact is what makes them worth thinking about. It is certainly important to keep anxiety about risk in perspective, but I think you can only do that if you have a balanced set of facts, or if the authority you trust to advise you takes care to base it on such data. The toxoplasmosis advice seems out of kilter with the approach the NHS take to, e.g., listeria. I am certainly not panicking about any of the pregnancy risks, but I do think it would be sensible for the NHS to reflect the approach taken by Tommy's, and to explain why.

Right - on the cat subject. The info that was mentioned earlier in the thread is correct. Old cat poo is the main risk (>24hrs).
Now to make all cat-fearing people better but not raw meat eaters:
I have done literally everything mentioned by ragged. I worked in a cattery from the age of 11 changing litter trays and cleaning up poo.
I am a feline specialist veterinary surgeon and do quite a few colonoscopies. I also have examined alot of poo for another parasite in my time.
So when preggers I thought get tested and of course will be positive. No I was negative.
I am a strict veggie and have been since I was 9. SO I would say I have ingested a fair amount of old cat poo in my time but no raw meat.
Cats are not a significant risk for toxo in my opinion, particularly if they are not big hunters who eat a lot of their prey (rather than leaving for us to step in). Getting tested is reassuring but for me was more of a worry. But as I understood the risks I continued my cat-poo job and home life (3 cats using indoor litter trays) and no problems whilst using sensible hygeine.
So I would say the OP has nothing to worry about if that helps at all. (sorry if not helping on the meat risk but again it is not common so a neglible risk.)

Don't assume you are immune. I had a cat in childhood/fond of making mud pies etc and I have a cat now. When I was seeing my GP prior to ttc, she was doing a blood test for me anyway so I asked her for a toxo screen as well. She wrote to me the following week to say I wasn't immune and my partner should clean out the cat litter tray from now on..... needless to say, I practically framed the letter and gave it to DP :)

an update for reference on that NHS advice . I've finally had a full reply and they've taken some action. That particular page now says this:

Avoid rare meat. The Department of Health previously advised that it was fine to eat whole cuts of beef and lamb rare, as long as the outside had been properly cooked. As a precaution, this advice has now been removed while a food safety committee (The Advisory Committee on the Microbiological Safety of Food) looks into the issue of toxoplasmosis. Toxoplasmosis is an infection caused by a parasite that can be found in meat, soil, cat faeces and untreated water. If you are pregnant the infection can damage your baby, but it's important to remember that toxoplasmosis in pregnancy is very rare.

Of course as mentioned on some old posts, some NHS pages said all along that Toxoplasmosis could be contracted from rare, raw and cured meats. We wanted consistency and clear guidelines. If the risks are tiny then fine, say that so people can make their own choices , but don't say its ok to eat rare meat as long as the outside is sealed fullstop (and then say elsewhere it may cause toxoplasmosis).

That's fantastic, blackcats. It was obviously anomalous in the context of all the other pregnancy diet advice, and I'm really glad they're doing something about it.

Wow - how amazing to see some action because of your hard work. Good on you!

Hi @Joiningin . I know this thread is very old, but I have a similar situation in that I accidentally ate some undercooked pork sausages last week and can't stop.wprrying about toxoplasmosis. What was your outcome? Hope everything was okay x