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Original poster

new bottle feeding guidelines

73 replies

kri5ty · 13/10/2011 10:06

Hey girls :-)

Ok I don't want to start a debate on different ways (right or wrong) on making up bottles. I plan to stick to the new guidelines and make them fresh ( following the government guidelines), but I just wanted to know if this would still be ok-

Allow some boiled water to cool, and keep this in a flask once cooled.

then when its time to make up a feed, boil the kettle, and pour a little less water than needed into the bottle

Then pour a little of the cooled boiled water into the bottle (to make it up to the correct level, and making sure its above 70 degrees)

Add powder, shake and cool in water to drinking temp

Would this work? I'm thinking so, as the water will still be above 70 degrees, and it will be quicker than waiting 30 minutes for the kettle to cool each time?

Thank you

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startail · 13/10/2011 13:29

Kir5ty I suspect that would work fine.
Personally I'd stick bottle of boiled water in the fridge because that way no bugs should grow in your cooling water, you'll use less and the amount of 5°c water to add to 100°c water should be repeatable.
Quick mess with some bottles and a thermometer, write down quantities, stick it on the fridge so sleepy DH can do it too!
Personally I'd work out how long to microwave a fridge cold bottle of boiled water for to get to 70°C add powder and shake. I know I'll get scowled at for suggesting a microwave, but there cannot be hotspots by the time you've shaken in the powder and I know from reheating my DD1s milk and my coffee it's amazingly repeatable.

AppleAndBlackberry · 13/10/2011 13:41

I used half the amount of boiling water, added the powder, shook it up and then added half cold tap water and it was at the right temperature to be drunk straight away. This wasn't for a newborn though, I probably wouldn't have used tap water for a very small baby. I also made up two feeds at once and put one in the fridge to reheat later.

startail · 13/10/2011 13:49

The problem is your not meant to add the powder to boiling water either, it denatures the proteins.
Can someone post the WHO link that was on the other thread, I'm on my iPod and must go sort lunch.

thesurgeonsmate · 13/10/2011 13:57

startail! Just when I thought I had my head round this, the denaturing of proteins raises it's ugly head.

MandaHugNKiss · 13/10/2011 15:21

My kettle has different settings for different heats (60, 70, 80, 90, 95 and 100) - maybe it'd be a godsend for bottle-maker-uppers? I've always fully bf (DS2 at 19 months showing not one sign of wanting to stop) but if for any reason I need to bottle feed my next I'm gaining a modicum of comfort from being able to hit the 70 button (or perhaps 80 to be sure!) and have adequate heat without risking the proteins!

my kettle

jamama · 13/10/2011 15:26

I still don't understand the denaturing of proteins bit - what happens when the proteins hit the stomach at pH1 other than denaturation (and surely proteins need to be denatured to be absorbed?) Most proteins aren't stable at that pH, hence the curdling of milk when baby is sick... but perhaps there is some other component which is not heat-stable which is important?

DaisySteiner · 13/10/2011 15:48

I don't get the protein denaturing thing either. Surely the proteins are going to denature at 70C anyway, not to mention the stomach acid.

thesurgeonsmate · 13/10/2011 21:00

Manda your kettle cost £100 . But with this problem in mind, maybe it could be a godsend.

Original poster

kri5ty · 13/10/2011 21:05

manda I'm getting that kettle!! Lol

startail great minds think alike... OH and I both work in catering, so always have to probe food to make sure its over 70 degrees... we spent yesterday writing a list of quantities of chilled water to add testing with our probes! Geeks lol

OP posts:

NorthernChinchilla · 13/10/2011 21:21

Hello kri5ty, I'm sadly excited to see some one I know from our other thread!

And then...holy fuck I did not realise how complicated making up a bottle was! In my defence, I've not had any ante-natal classes, but here was me thinking it was just mix and feed.

There's specific temperatures, and times, and guidelines?! And expensive kettles?! I mean, I'm planing to BF, but I have to trust a sleep addled me and DP to get this right if sprog won't take?

RitaMorgan · 13/10/2011 21:32

I think the issue with boiling water is the vitamins rather than the proteins - some of the vitamins won't survive boiling water, so although not an issue for occasional bottles it's probably not a good idea to make every bottle up with boiling water.

BamBam - these guidelines have nothing to do with breastfeeding. Some babies in Europe died from contaminated formula, so guidelines were changed to minimise the risk.

Original poster

kri5ty · 13/10/2011 23:19

Haha northern hello :o I have every confidence in your breastfeeding abilities!! Yup its not as simple as mix and go sadly, the formula isn't sterile and babies have died from it... you just have to make sure the water is above 70 degrees when you add the power to kill bacteria (just like you would if you were re heating food at home), I was just looking for a way to make the process a little quicker that's all :o but I think Ima get me the kettle to save the hassle lol

OP posts:

ChippingIn · 13/10/2011 23:35

For at home the double thermos system works really well. One hot, one cold (both boiled). You soon know how much of each makes it about 70 deg, mix the powder into that and top it up with the cold water. At first you should measure out the water in two bottle so you get it right, but after you have made a few up you know where the top up mark is.

Going out - cartons are great if you can afford them, but if not a thermos of just boiled water & a bottle of cold water are easy enough to put in the nappy bag.

Original poster

kri5ty · 14/10/2011 00:03

Thanks hun, I think that's what I'll do :) I have a tommee tippee flask, so will fill that up with boiling water when I'm out, and either use it to make a feed, or use it to heat a carton up!

We have already tested at home, how much hot and cold to add for each bottle LO will ever need lol, and have written it down so we remember!

Although I am tempted by the kettles you can select to heat up to 70 degrees!!

OP posts:

ChippingIn · 14/10/2011 00:24

Kettle does sound tempting, but unless you want to wait until it cools down, you'll still need to add cold water, so you might as well just boil the kettle and add a bit more cold water I love the double thermos though and you get used to adding more hot and less cold throughout the day!

I always figure that the main thing (for me anyway) is killing the bateria in the powder - everything else is secondary.

ChippingIn · 14/10/2011 00:26

Also, if you do the thermos thing, you don't have to have two kettles or shout at anyone who goes near the kettle! Single boiled water is ideal, but the world does not stop turning if it gets boiled more than once

startail · 14/10/2011 00:48

Yep terrible geeks here, both scientists. DDs too old for bottles so it's the science of perfect coffee that has DH boiling kettles and letting the water cool to just the right temp with a digital thermometer in it

startail · 14/10/2011 00:51

I'm sure our kettle was about £15 from Tescos. Gave up on posh ones when the fancy water level gage just decided to leak everywhere.

Freezingmyarseoff · 14/10/2011 01:02

So this might be a stupid question but how do you know if the water has reached 70 degrees? Do any of you use a thermometer? OP sounds like you have a fancy catering thingami-jig, but anyone else?

I know they say boil a full(?) kettle and wait 30 mins but that requires serious timed planning (not just forward planning) and to a chaotic person like me just is not feasible. Sounds like the double thermos approach is the way to go but still got to know the temperature (at least until it becomes more routiine)

I now realise I used to do it all wrong with DD (and not that many years ago either ), I had no idea that formula wasn't sterile and so never understood the logic behind the instructions on the formula box

I'm expecting in January, and hope to BF as much as possible but I need to train DH up since I'm hoping that he'll be doing any formula if needed. Not that he knows that yet

ChippingIn · 14/10/2011 02:00

Freeing - if you do the 'boil the kettle, wait half an hour' thing, then pour the water into a bottle a few hundred times, you soon kind of know when it's right. I'm sure there are people who do test it properly, but not many! Given how many people make it with cold water/leave it out for hours/give it to the baby for a period of more than an hour/heat it incorrectly etc etc (one woman on here last week uses the cartons and just keeps topping the bottle up?!) and babies getting very ill/dying from the bacteria in a bottle is almost unheard of, I figure my 'that's around 70 degrees' is good enough

Don't feel bad about doing it wrong then - we all did, no-one knew any different. The same with using freshly boiled water - lots of people did that when the whole 'must be over 70 deg' thing hit the news - some people still do and whilst it's not the end of the world, it is not good as it kills off the vitamins etc in the milk so they aren't getting as much out of it as they should.

If DH doing bottles is only going to be an occasional thing, I'd buy the cartons anyway.

AND if you wash the bottles properly, you do not need to sterilise them.

ragged · 14/10/2011 02:17

Are these guidelines that new? I thought it was the advice that came out like 7 or so years ago.(?)

ChippingIn · 14/10/2011 02:25

I'm not sure when they originally came out (it didn't affect me at the time) but I know in 2007/8 there was that baby that died from the bacteria in the powder and it all hit the headlines again at a time it did affect me. One of us could google - but it doesn't really matter when it came about does it. The thing that surprises me is that there are still people that don't know about the 70deg's thing, I would have thought that a HCP somewhere along the line would have mentioned it.

I saw a woman making a bottle up with cold water the other day and I wanted to ask her if she knew about the 70deg thing and chose to take the (very small) risk or whether she didn't know... but how do you do that without seeming very judgey? :(

fraktious · 14/10/2011 04:49

It was around 2005 I think as I was nannying a newborn at the time and making bottles.

The 'wait 30 mins' thing I hate with a passion - it only works for precisely 1l water in a properly insulated container. That's not my cheapy kettle! And I don't boil a litre each time either.

I had a food thermometer and measured how long it took water to cool in a bottle once poured out - quicker than 1l, usually only around 5 mins, but it does depend on the quantity.

I would err in the side of occasionally too hot and cool very rapidly than too cold and not kill the nasties. That said I was coming at it from a professional perspective so it wasn't my child I was risking and I wanted to be damn sure my professional insurance would cover me.

Putrifyno · 14/10/2011 08:57

My dd was born in 2004 and this is the first I ever heard of this, so you might be right on the timing fraktious.

Finallygotaroundtoit · 14/10/2011 09:22

No need to use thermometers! 60 - 70 degrees is 'hand hot' - you could just about hold the bottle (but too hot for baby to drink obviously]

Just boil kettle, or use water if kettle recently boiled, wait a few mins till no longer boiling/steaming.
Guidelines should really say wait no longer than 30 mins after boiling

Many people dont make the link between powdered formula and gastroenteritis because it may not be obvious and the bugs are rarely tested for in the lab.

However, I know someone who was very ill with salmonella as a baby (in hospital for weeks). Her mum has only just discovered now, 30 years later, that formula can be contaminated with salmonella , even before the tin is opened. She had spent years wondering how her young baby had contracted salmonella !

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